THEY SAID NO. HE FOUGHT BACK | Bill Brown returns S.O.S. #274

A judge told William Brown something that should stop any veteran cold: New Jersey’s anti-discrimination law did not clearly protect veterans like him. Bill is a former Navy SEAL, a working attorney, and the founder of the New York City SEAL Swim, so he did what he’s trained to do when the mission matters. He adapted. He organized. And he took the fight out of the courtroom and into the legislature.

We walk through the real mechanics of a successful advocacy campaign: how you identify a legal gap, build a coalition with veterans advocates and Gold Star families, show up at town halls, and keep pressure on elected officials without losing the plot. Bill shares what it felt like to face workplace retaliation, how cancel culture and DEI dynamics can shape professional life, and why free speech and viewpoint diversity are not academic ideas when your livelihood is on the line.

We also talk about resilience and balance. Bill explains his concept of “adventure therapy” and why the New York City SEAL Swim brings healing, purpose, and unity to warfighters and supporters alike. The big takeaway is simple and demanding: democracy is a proactive sport, and lasting change takes endurance.

If this conversation helps you think differently about veteran rights, workplace discrimination, or legislative strategy, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Stories of Service presents guests’ stories and opinions in their own words, reflecting their personal experiences and perspectives. While shared respectfully and authentically, the podcast does not independently verify all statements. Views expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the host, producers, government agencies, or podcast affiliates.

Transcript

Cold Open And Advocacy Clip

SPEAKER_01 0:01

I've been an advocate as long as I can remember. From an early child, I was always the one who, among my friends, was trying to influence them, get them to do things that probably weren't always so great or a little bit on the rebellious side, but I've always been a person that wanted to influence, wanted to convince, wanted to be persuasive, but I didn't really know where to put that energy. And it wasn't until I started doing animal advocacy while I was in the military that I really, really got energized about advocacy and being able to lobby for something and being able to argue for change. And there really isn't anybody that I know of personally, other than historical figures that I read about who have inspired me on my advocacy journey as much as Bill Brown. And what I'm going to do to start this podcast, because I can't really think of any other better way to start this show and to frame what we're going to talk about. And I'm going to set the stage for a video that Bill did, I mean, a town hall that Bill was at, I would say, just a few months back. And he was advocating for what we're going to talk about today, the New Jersey law against discrimination. And he wanted it to include New Jersey veterans. So in this clip, what you're going to see is he's speaking to Jack Sitorelli, who was the New Jersey GOP candidate. And he is asking him to support a law. Now, this is not testifying at a hearing. This is not going on a podcast. This is not standing by yourself in front of a video. This is in front of a large group of people at the Veteran Healthcare and Luncheon at the Brookdale Community College. And so with that, I'm going to go ahead and play the video. So I do apologize. But with that, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to welcome uh Bill to the Stories of Service podcast. Bill, let's see. Are you still on, Bill?

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Yeah, I'm here. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

I'm good. I'm good. Give me one second.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

All right, Bill. I'm gonna go ahead and put you on. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Well, thank you so much for agreeing to come on. And as I always do, welcome to the Stories of Service podcast.

Meet Bill Brown And The Fight

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Ordinary people who do extraordinary work, and I'm the host of Stories of Service. Do apologize for the beginning technical difficulties. We are live, and when we are alive, sometimes those things will happen. But as I always get these two episodes started, we're going to play an intro from my father, Charlie Pickard.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service, hosted by Teresa Carpenter, here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

And today we are talking to former Navy SEAL attorney and New York City SEAL Swim Founder William Brown, who took on a powerful law firm. He told New Jersey law that he was told that New Jersey law did not clearly protect veterans like him. So Bill adapted, assembled a team, and refused to surrender. And in our last conversation, he exposed a stunning gap in the state's law against discrimination. A judge's ruling could have ended the fight. Instead, it ignited one. Bill stepped out in the courtroom, took his case directly to lawmakers. He rallied veterans, Gold Star families, and supporters, marched through New Jersey, and refused to let veterans remain invisible under the law. And then came the vote 37-0 in the New Jersey Senate, 71-0 in the General Assembly. And on January 20th, 2026, veterans were officially added as a protected class under New Jersey law. And he didn't simply just win an argument. He helped change the law for every veteran who comes after him. And today we're going to talk about the anatomy of a successful advocacy campaign. How do you keep fighting when powerful institutions refuse to disappear, expect you to disappear? And how do you change that anger into legislation? And how does one person force a political system to listen? Welcome again, Bill.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

It's an honor to be here. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Well, thank you so much for agreeing to come on. So let's get our audience a little bit caught up for the ones who might have missed this and don't understand this fight. Tell us a little bit about why you decided to take on the law. Like why was this so important to you? What had happened in your past to make this come about?

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Well, I think a lot of the kind of got to set the states. So if you take it back a few years in the middle of Biden's presidency, to be sincere, they woke ideality, which was at its strongest influence, especially in New York City, New Jersey, and a lot of very blue states. And to be sincere, a lot of the big law firms, and I would say the vast majority of the big law firms, they were very, very tied into that ideology. And one of the things to me that I found very alarming was when you talk about cancel culture, what is really cancel culture? Well, it's basically you're shutting down a whole nother thought process, you know, a whole nother group of individuals that have a different kind of outlook, a different perspective. And to me, I think that's really adverse to the foundation, the very core of what a democracy is supposed to be about. Because if you think about like Athens and where democracy and the ideas of the democracy developed, is where you had basically open forums, and the citizens of Athens would get out there and they'd have these public debates. And that is really the foundation, the core of it. The exchange of ideas, and and what happens is when you shut down other people's ideas with cancel culture, and you think about even a declaration of independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Well, when you're shutting down people's ability to express themselves, if you're shutting down their ability to earn a livelihood, there's really only one recourse, and that is you have to fight back. Yes. And so I think a lot of people forget how bad things really were in the middle of Biden's presidency, because it was and you think about during COVID, it was extremely bad. And to be sincere, I was I worked at a very the oldest and largest and you know law firm in the state of New Jersey. And to be sincere, a lot of those attorneys were intellectuals, but and they were very experienced attorneys. But here's also the truth their embracement of the idea of the woke ideology, I think they shut their minds to my talent and my work and my value. And even though for numerous years, even though I was an associate and I brought in more clients than any other associate in my practice group, they really didn't value my work. And I think one of the reasons why is because I was a veteran, because I, you know, let's be sincere, I'm built a little differently than most attorneys. You know, I, you know, I'm athletic, I am a combat veteran, and I am outspoken. Now, the truth is a lot of attorneys are outspoken, right? And a lot of attorneys, what what type of individuals gravitate to the legal profession? Intellectuals, outspoken intellectuals, individuals who like to, you know, to like to engage in debate and argument. Because to be sincere, what a good attorney is, if a good attorney is really an advocate for their client. That's really what it but what happened in the in the big law firms in New York City, New Jersey, and Connecticut, and in PA, here's the truth. They uh they there was a big purge, in my opinion, of conservative thinkers within the legal profession. And it started at the law schools where there wasn't really, I went to Rutgers Law and it was pretty outrageous. Uh some of the things I had to endure there, some of the things other professors would say, some of the things the students felt free to say. There was no real freedom of speech there. And in my opinion, that naturally flowed into the legal community and some of these big and very influential law firms in a in the tri-state area for sure. And and it's actually spread into the justice system, into the courts. And you can see some of the things that happened against, in my opinion, President Trump, where these political prosecutions,

Cancel Culture And Free Speech

SPEAKER_03 10:21

some of these rulings, these outlandish judgments, in my opinion, it woke woke fair or lawfare is one of the scariest things you could ever think of.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

It is. It's awful, absolutely awful. I've I've covered this uh in depth with another guest, Rick Adente. He was a professor at Florida uh Institute, uh Florida Institute of Technology, I believe. And JM Z'Keefe ended up helping him expose the story, but basically they were getting funding from the state, and they were told that they couldn't use that for DEI programs. And so they were renaming their college programs so that they could still teach this kind of identity politics. And the thing is, is that it's so damaging. It it treats everybody like a victim and it takes away your own personal empowerment when you are so attached to your race, to your gender, or to something else other than the fact that you're working hard and you're meeting the standards and you're doing what is expected for the mission, whatever that mission is. And it it infuriates me the way that this entire country has been taken apart by this. And the military is just one of many institutions that has been impacted by this ideology. It's not, it's not just the law firms. It happened in my military public affairs community, you know my struggles there because of DEI. And it's something that I really think that it took a lot of courage for you to speak out during that administration and especially at your own law firm to see this going on and you being in the minority when everybody else was bought into this program. Did you ever feel like you were every day to day, like kind of living in the Twilight Zone? Like, like am I living in this other alternate reality? I mean, that that's kind of how I felt sometimes in my own community.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Well, I I I definitely knew I was in a a severe struggle because no, no in my livelihood absolutely at stake. But here's the thing I've I've been to war, right? And to be sincere, like think about it. Just in my boat crew in Hell Week, I have David Goggins and Chris Kyle in my boat crew. So, like some of the individuals that I serve with, and some of the individuals, you know, yeah, they serve with those types of high caliber Americans. Yeah, I was definitely uh my mental capacity to endure a struggle is is is is probably a very high percentage. Now, one of the issues when you talk about it, I love our nation. And the thing is, I love the ideas of our nation that were transcribed in the Constitution, right? I love it. I when you really think about it, one of the most beautiful things in our constitution, right, in the Bill of Rights, is that the individual's right is sacred. That's that's that changes the whole perspective on how things were before. Or even you look at the checks and balances and power and how the executive branch is checked by the legislative branch, and they're both checked by the judicial branches. Now, the the the the fact that the judicial branch is is is heavily dominated by attorneys, and the fact that the legal profession is is so far left. And here's the truth: most Americans don't know this. Extremely far left. And when I talk about the woke ideology, one of the things that scared me is because I identify myself as an American, right? And I I and when I let when I think of all the different ways that, in my opinion, the socialist left ideology tries to divide us by race and religion, to me, it's actually a it's it's it's adverse to basically our our nation, right? United we stand. And when I look at the legal community specifically, and when you look at all these big bar associations, all the big bar associations are based on strictly your racial identity, identity. And a lot of Americans don't realize this. So you have these huge bar associations that that influence the entire legal process, they're they're at they're not just private like entities, they're like almost like because they have like quasi-government type of positions that they have and the influence they have, and even the appointment of judges. And and and when you have such strong spheres of influence within the legal community where they strictly identify themselves on such a shallow type of framework of basically based on race, like the the Asian bar associates or the you know the the African-American bar associates, or the all, you know, you name it, or that, you know, that's where it's at. And to me, that's even adverse to what the legal community is supposed to be about, because a lot of people, a lot of people, I think, understand now that a lot of the law is so broad that a lot of general practitioners really don't exist too much, and a lot of attorneys specialize in different practices, different fields of law. And and so you would think that bar associations would be more like guilds based on different fields of law.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Of expertise. You would think that it, yeah, you would think that it would go by whatever that particular niche is, and the associations would follow that niche. That would just make sense.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Yeah, 100%. But that's that's not what it is. And if and here's the other thing, right? If you're totally defined yourself by race and that's all you're looking for, you know, maybe you become hypersensitive.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

You do, and you see it everywhere, and you start to look for it and you start to think that everything is because of your gender or because of your race or because of your nationality. And it it divides people. And I think that's like the part that I just it blows my mind. And I was bought into it too. I mean, before I met you, I had a friend named Chase Spears, a very close friend who you who you've been on his podcast too, finding your spine. And him and I, I had an aha moment actually on on when he came to my show. There was just, I forget what the the particular pass um, you know, what we were talking about, but there was this moment where he's just having the same kind of talk that you and I are having. And I never saw DEI the same way again after that conversation. And it was neat to be able to capture that in real time, that attitude change, because typically that doesn't happen. And the sad part is, Bill, I've lost like close, like what I thought were close friends, one in particular, whose you know anniversary I went to and the family members that I went to, and and and I had, I mean, I'm from a left Columbus, Ohio. I mean, everybody's left where I'm from. And I don't care like what your political leaning is. I just don't want it to be identified by the fact that I'm a female and a female only. And that's also even why I sort of stay away from promoting myself as a female because I don't want that to be my legacy. I want my legacy to be the things that I'm impacting. And so I think that it's just this is a dangerous game that we're playing with one another and it has to stop.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Well, you know, uh there's there's kind of different ways to look at it. And one of the ways to look at it is, you know, one of the things I love about our country is I love the evolution that our country has taken. Like, let's let's be sincere, like the Civil War, the only nation on the planet that went to war with itself to end slavery. Or let's talk about the civil rights movement, or let's talk about the woman's suffrage movement, or even the gay and lesbian movement. Now, I think all those movements were great movements to meet the ideals transcribed in our constitution, right? Sure. Equality, liberty, you know, due process. Those are all beautiful things, but then we've taken a big back step with cancel culture and really how intimidating it was just a couple years back. And you know, one of the things I really didn't realize and now I, you know, there's different things in my life that had a huge impact on me. Definitely when there's kind of three of them. One, I spent some time in the detention center when I was younger, and I actually learned a lot of lessons there. Two is when I went to SEAL training, three was when I went to war, and then four is my whole college and law school experience. And definitely the college and law school experience had a huge impact on me. And it was one of the benefits to being at a big law firm was I did get the chance to work around a lot of intelligent and very experienced attorneys at McArthur and English, but they were so flawed because they were so far left that they couldn't see the talent that I brought to the table. And they uh and they really they really did their best to try to cancel me.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

They did, they tried to push you out. And for those of you that might not have seen my last show with Bill, they performed a series of intimidating, retaliatory measures to eventually try to get you to quit. And you're not a person who ever quits or backs down, so it didn't work. And then

Big Law Pressure And Veteran Bias

SPEAKER_01 20:30

eventually they just I think they just let you go. It was the ultimate outcome of it with a bullshit excuse of a social media post that wasn't even what they said it was, and that led you to try to sue, and then you tried to sue. And I'm just kind of catching the audience up to speed with where we are from the last uh podcast, and then the judge tells you that sorry, you have laws on the books for all these other classes to that that can't legally be discriminated against, but there's nothing in the law that says a veteran cannot be discriminated against. So, knowing you, what did you do decide to do at that point?

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Well, yeah, one of the one of the things they did to me, and you brought it up, I was a commercial litigator, and basically I uh I was a banker's attorney. And I the majority of my work was collections, loan defaults, working out some type of modifications, if it was loan modifications, it was if it was possible. But that was really the gist of my work. But then once I started speaking up on about veterans' advocacy and counter woke ideology that they were promoting, all of a sudden I start getting all these uh cases where they assigned me to Represent the Catholic Church and these pedophile priests that molested lots of young kids. And I gotta tell you something, I feel like a coward because I should have never taken those cases. I was a father of a young girl, and I'm a father of a son who's you know 20, 25. But to this day, I I hate myself in a way for taking those cases because the truth is I used my brand, my brain and my and my legal training to represent individuals that I actually think should be killed. And so is but they put my nose in shit. That like 80% of my work was that, even maybe more than that, representing these child molesters. And I let them know how I was upset about it verbally and in writing. But that's what they did in the SEAL teams or in Buds, they call it DOR Drop out on request. In my opinion, they were trying to get me to DOR by these.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

They were. And then they were also doing things like having a diversity summit, but then like not inviting you to the summit or recognizing certain days. And then you said, Well, why don't we have a day where we represent where we recognize this the nine the people who who perished in 9-11? And then they wouldn't do those, they wouldn't do those kind of recognition. And and I mean you were just speaking up and and trying to represent other other points of view, and for uh, and I think that one's the most bizarre because it says it's a diversity group, and then they they made a mistake because I'm gonna hate them to the day I fucking die.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Like they have an enemy in this Navy SEAL forever, and I am never gonna stop. Well, I I mean honestly, you just they just better buckle up because I just I haven't even started. But the one thing I learned, here's the one thing I learned reading all those fact patterns, the thing I learned is when those victims stood up, even if they lost those cases, when they spoke up, even if it was years later, because one of the repetitive patterns that I saw was these great measures that these pedophile priests in the church would do to try to keep the victims and their family silent. But when they spoke up, when they spoke up, that's that's when they really won. And so, look, when they gave me all those cases, and now I have to look in the mirror and for the rest of my life know I've represented these child molesters. Like they like I was a coward for not for not quitting and taking those cases, and I wish I never would. Because I really define myself as a protector, and now I have a hard time doing that. So I hate McCarter in English, like I hate those motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

I understand, it's never gonna stop. Like, we're just getting started. Every, every way, every possible way to the day I die, I'm coming at them. Every legally possible way.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

And so basically, what happened after that judge told you this is where we're gonna get into the anatomy of an advocacy campaign. Yeah, so they tell you, a judge, you go to you do a I think it was a civil lawsuit, and you go to court and they say, Well, nope, it's there's no law about this. So then what do you think to yourself, what do I do now? I mean, at that point, a lot of people would be defeated and they would say, Okay, I'm done. I did what I could, time to move on.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Well, they they never fought a Navy SHIEL before because we're just getting started. How did you start? So, one of the things is I got an attorney that was a veteran, and he's he's a pretty good attorney. He's from a very small firm, and basically reached out to him and I wanted to I wanted to have another veteran represent me because that's kind of you know what I'm about, you know. And I thought it would send a better message having an attorney with me that's a veteran. And what I did is we we filed the complaint, and it's basically the vast majority of it's based on veterans' discrimination. When you have partners at the firm asking me how many people I killed and things like that, you know, it's it's pretty it's pretty clear. The uh, you know, asking me if I'm all right now when I'm advocating for you know fair pay and equality for veterans on social media and you know, you know, and so I follow the veterans discrimination. So they uh in my opinion, what happened is I'm the founder of the New York City SEAL swim. And to be honest with you, you know, I've I've been to war. And sometimes I think any good person who's been to war, they're gonna have a hard time dealing with it or understanding it, right? A little bit. And when you're downrange, you don't have time to kind of do that. And I think so. The thing that works for me the best, to be honest with you, is I call it venture therapy. When doing a patriotic athletic event with a bunch of other guys and gals who love this country, who've been to war for this country, I it helps us. I think we all energize with each other, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Right. And that's a great point that I do want to bring out and just kind of anchor on for a second is that we talk about advocacy and we talk about all these things that are really hard to do and painful. And we have to balance that and balance that passion with things that are fun and things that bring people together and build camaraderie. So I think that's what's so also unique about this is that for the past seven years, you've been the race director for the New York City SEAL swim. And so you were doing this while this fight was going on. Every year you were bringing patriotic Americans to New York City and doing what I would call the most inspirational fundraiser I've ever seen. And that is just outstanding. So, and that also is a testament to the fact that as an advocate, you can't just be an advocate 24-7. You have to have balance, you have to go to horse therapy or you have to go to, you know, I go to a celebrate recovery meeting now on Monday nights. I mean, you have to do other things to bring people together and to relax with your friends and to have fun and do things that meet that are full of meaning. And and I think that's a great bridge to also the fact that this is not just a fight for you, this is also just a a piece of your portfolio of the things and the ways that you give back.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Well, you know, one of the things I think I learned in life is when you're fighting out of love, you fight the strongest. Yeah, the one of the things that a lot of people don't understand about the new New York City SEAL swim is that I was a SEAL 9-11, you know, I went to war, I lost, I lost some good friends. And you know, we finished at the World Trade Center where for us it all began. And one of the cool things that's slightly different is a lot of the guys, you know, most SEALs really haven't been in New York City. Most, I guess a bunch have, but a bunch haven't either. And so, like the day before we get a tour of the 9-11 museum, and for us, we have like Ron DiFrancisco, he was the last person, last known survivor out of the World Trade Center, or like Mikhaila Cruz, she was on a 95th floor, and the only reason why she's alive is because one of her friends grabbed her and made her come into the elevator. Everybody else on the floor didn't make it out. And so we're like James De

Retaliation At Work And The Lawsuit

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Dow, he's a captain in the firefighter FDNY. His his father, Kevin De Dow, was also a captain in FDNY and was killed on 9-11. So we have these 9-11 survivors or family members who lost their loved ones speak. And it's very good for us because a lot of us, like any good man or woman that, you know, especially if you're doing things close up over and over again, it's it's gonna it's gonna naturally gonna mess with you. And so when we're there swimming by the beautiful Statue of Liberty and what the freedoms and civil liberties that she represents, or swimming right by Ellis Island, and you know, all the men and women that came to our country for a better life, our nascent diversity there, carrying American flags, really proud into the World Trade Center and listening into these survivors and family members of 9-11 for us, the warfighters, the warfighter community, it's so good for us on so many different levels because now we know why we went to war. Now we know why we took on these jihadists. Yeah, and it's so funny. There's different things that bring it back. So, like today, for some reason, there's some big fires in the in Canada in the woods. And so that smoke that is actually traveled all the way to New Jersey, and when I smelled it today, it reminded me of Iraq, because in Iraq they burn their trash, and that's like reminds me of Iraq. And so, like for us to see and hear those stories, it helps us. And then for those 9-11 survivors or those who lost their families on 9-11 to meet the war fighters who took to, you know, we had Rob O'Neill, who literally killed the line speak last year. And you know, for them to hear that side of it, it's it's so powerful and such a sense of healing.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

It brings everybody together, and it doesn't matter what your political affiliation is, it doesn't matter your gender. And again, yeah, Bill, I mean, you've got that book right there that a full, you know, full glossy portfolio of all the imagery and all the amazing photographers and videographers and media people. I mean, look for my listening audience, unfortunately, you didn't get to see the slideshow of the many pictures that I've been, I was just kind of showing up on the on the screen, but it's it's such a beautiful event with beautiful Americans who are doing amazing work. And I I should also add, and I don't like to talk about myself in a podcast that much, but I'm also attempting to do the qualifier this Saturday, and I'm really excited for that opportunity. I I've been working out very consistently for the last year, as well as taking on freestyle. I can freestyle consecutively now, it just blows my mind. I mean, I'm not fast, but I mean, I went from like every, you know, I'd say five or six strokes, I'd have to roll over on my back to now the entire time. I mean, just because I learned how to control my breathing. It's it's a breathing, it's a breathing exercise. That's all it is.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

In swimming, your breathing is everything. If not, you'll get super gassed super fast. And here's here's the other thing. I'm so proud of you because you're stepping into a new element. And here's the truth the one of the best parts of this swim is the motivation to kind of get in shape, and I love it. And when you're out there posting your training videos, you're motivating others to do the same. And so it's a it's a win-win. And yeah, yeah, I'm very proud of you, and I'm and I'm praying to God that you pass. Trust.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah. Well, I told you, don't give me no special favors. If I'm not safe in the water, you know, I'm not safe. That's okay. I mean, because I too think that there's still a lesson to be learned when people don't pass things and they don't get through it. It'll teach me what I need to do better for next year, and I'll still come around if you guys want me to as a volunteer. That's how passionate I am about this.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

So you're a beautiful American. Like there's different levels to it, you know. There's part of me that maybe I get you a seal swim buddy if you know, but we'll see. I have to make sure you're safe.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Yeah. No, I mean, I'm I'm very excited. I've been we have a lot of ocean here in Biloxi area. So I've I've had the opportunity to go to the ocean quite a few times, and I feel comfortable swimming in waves. So I'm I'm excited. I'm excited to try it out. And I think that it sets the example too, especially for someone like me who never thought I could do a sport, never thought I could be athletic, which are all just silly things that people say to themselves. And they get those things, those things in their head and they think that about themselves, and then they then they it makes them think that and then they hold on to that. And I didn't want to hold on to that anymore. I saw the way you guys were last year, and I was like, Oh, I want to be a part of this. So I did it. But anyway, let's go back to your story. We're gonna go back to advocacy, which is of course my my favorite subject. And so you go to the core. I want to get to the point where you said, I'm going to start to organize because that's where I'm gonna try to show this picture here. Up, nope. Sorry about that. I'm gonna add that. That's where this comes in. So this is what coalition building. So tell me a little bit about what you did to build a coalition to get a law passed. I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

That's a beautiful picture. Now, I want to just describe the details, but I got to take it in reverse just for a second. Okay, okay. Now we just talked about how powerful and meaningful that swim is. So, in my opinion, one of the things that McCarter and English did, those sorry sack of fucks, is they hired the chairman of the Port Authority, Kevin O'Toole. Now, one of the things a lot of people might not realize in these big law firms, and to be sincere, I didn't realize it until I got there, it's heavily influenced by nepotism. I mean, you'll have judges whose sons are there and they get fast tracked to partner like in a blink of an eye, and all of a sudden they're practice groups. Or you have like the chairman of the port authority's son, he works at this law firm at McCarter and Inglis, the you know, the law firm I'm suing for veterans discrimination. Well, in my in my opinion, they're sorry, sack of fucks. They purposely hired Kevin O'Toole, the chairman of the Port Authority's law firm, in my opinion, specifically because they knew I worked with the Port Authority with the SWINT. Now, here's the truth. For seven years, I never had an issue with permits. Seven years, none. Now, what get now, guess what? Now I get a threatening text message from Pat Donovan from the Port Authority. If I mention the chairman or his law firm, that we won't have access to the World Trade Center, that the that the Port Authority won't help us. And then guess what? On my permit denials, even though the Pat Donovan wasn't copied in any of my permits to Battery Park, all of a sudden, on my denial, the first denial in seven years, Pat Donovan from the Port Authority is copied on there. So, in my opinion, those pieces of shit. All this, all those beautiful people that that swim helps, all those gold stars, all those 9-11 survivors, all those war fighters, they fuck with our swim.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah. And it's really unfortunate. That is infuriating.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

You know what? Fuck them, fuck all those nepotism, crooked ass fucking attorneys.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Fuck them. I understand. And I think the part, but but what was gold about what you did is the fact that you you not only exposed what they were doing, you you you you exposed that one port authority gentleman as being a very not so nice person to even his own family. I mean, I think that was really powerful when you were able to show, I think it was a sister who was also in the police force, yeah. Yeah, in the police force. And she was and and she was intimidated by him and felt unsafe around him. And so what you did, Bill, is you you did exactly what you said earlier, what you are, and and you exposed a person who is not a good person, and and you show that you are a protector and and you did something for her, I'm sure. She probably feels so validated and so seen and so heard because she's now, and I I get emotional thinking about this, but she now knows she's like not the only person that has been dealing with this. And then there's somebody who's publicly standing up and saying, uh, we're not going to take this. And I apologize to my audience members, I couldn't show that video at the beginning because that video, I'll I'll link to it in the description because it's so powerful. It shows like what you can do. You can go to a luncheon, you can go to a public event, and you started off with a compliment. You were very polite, you were very respectful, and then you got into what it was that you you wanted and you felt was was needed. And there wasn't a person in that room, I think, that heard that that thought that this wasn't something that we should be doing. And even the way he answered it, he knew it was something we should be doing. And so that's what sometimes you need. You need that sunlight on these issues to expose them. And then the issue goes, well, everyone goes, Oh, yeah, we should be doing this. And so tell us me a little bit. I want to get back to the campaign, unless you have something more you want to say about the swim. I want to turn it back over to you

Judge’s Ruling And A New Plan

SPEAKER_01 40:05

and see if there's anything more.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

We can we can move. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Okay, okay. So now you're being told by the judge that there need you, there's no law. There's no law in the books. So, what was your first step to strategize to try to fix this?

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Well, I I first I was shocked, you know, and kind of the different stages of grief, you know. But then I I I read it and I read it and I read it, and then I actually realized it looked like the judge was telling me that, you know, this wasn't a judicial issue. It was actually I had to take it out with the legislature.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

And I was like, you know what? All right, I'll follow the judge's directions. Because it, you know, it's ex post facto, which means that legally, you know, now that it's law, it can't reapply to my situation. That's one of the legal arguments, but I'm making arguments that, you know, it should, because I literally emailed every New Jersey state legislator about my case. And therefore, with public policy arguments that they voted in a hundred percent in favor. There's not one person who voted against it knowing my case. I met with a lot of different state lawmakers, I talked to their staff, and so you know, that's my position there. But there's a there's a position that it it can't apply. But here's the truth: no matter what happens on my case, I've already won. I've already won on a couple levels. One is I spoke up, just like there's kids that were molested by their priests, they spoke up, even if it took years later. And now everybody knows, and here's the truth the Catholic Church is corroded, and they were and they did the you know, I've read, you know, here's the truth. When I was in the detention center, I had some time, and I literally have read the Bible twice back to back. And one of the things in the New Testament, one of the things that Jesus kind of puts out there is he puts out like there's nothing greater like to protect a kid. And it's like he gives a story like if you were gonna like to corrupt a kid, it's better like to tie like a stone, a millstone around your neck and jump in a lake. And so here's the Catholic Church not looking after literally preying on kids. And now the truth is that history shows that that happened, and I think it had a real question mark on the validity of religion. Now, I'm what you might call a foxhole Christian, right? Like I believe in the golden rule, you treat others as you want to be treated. But here's the truth before I ever did an odd, before I ever jumped out of airplane, and the truth is, in any event I have a leadership role, I I give it to God. But besides that, you know, I'm not pretty outspoken about it. But as far as what happened, how history is shown, like they weren't looking out for the children, like and by these kids speaking up, now uh they encourage others, people to others to speak up. And so I one of the things I believe in is I believe the way to beat bad ideas is with good ideas. And so when a lot of that woke ideology was coming out there, and as an attorney and as someone who values really the uh the beauty of the way the legal system should work, and and and and and when I saw these political prosecutions, and basically everybody, every every bar association, every big law firm was basically mumbered. The word sitting on the hands about it. I felt I had to speak up out of love for our country, out of love for the legal system, out of love for due process. Like that's not the way things are supposed to be played, or even our electoral system. How many states they were trying to remove Trump from the ballot? Sure. And we the people was in the preamble. Like we the people should have the right to decide and weigh things out.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

So yeah, so this was just a systematic approach. I mean, you went and you talked to the state lawmakers about it. You would show up at town halls and community forums and ask about it. You would do things like go to places and meet these amazing uh people. Let me right there about these kinds of things.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Can I tell you about that picture? Because that was actually a victorious picture. So here's some facts that a lot of people might not know. I actually used to be a Democrat. I used to be a Democrat. You want to know why? Because I came from a blue-collar family, I came from a union family. I we used to be a Democrat. And guess what? My social values for the longest time were I didn't have I had no issues with gay and lesbians and how people want to love each other. I had no issues with that. I I had some disagreements on on the you know when the viability was regarding the legalization of abortion, but predominantly a lot of my social kind of perspectives were actually at the time more aligned with the with the Democratic Party. But so I actually ran as a Democrat twice. During that time, I actually the guy in the center is named Troy Singleton, and he's a powerful state senator in the state of New Jersey. I actually became friends with him when I got of the military a long time ago. Now, my political perspective has, you know, in my opinion, the Democratic Party has evolved to something that is anti-American, to be sincere.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Troy Singleton is a good man, and he's a strong leader in the Democratic Party in New Jersey. Now, I I have a friend named Charles Strange, and he has a Michael Strange Foundation. His son was killed in extortion 17 on August 6th, along with 28 other Americans. We honor them at during the swim. He introduced me to Amy Moore. She's the lady next to Troy, Senator Singleton. She's a gold star mother. She lost her son in Afghanistan. When I talked to her about what happened with my case and how the New Jersey law against discrimination protected 43 other classes, but didn't include New Jersey veterans. Uh her, she made sure, and I forget the guy's name, Jeff Cannon. He's a veterans advocate, but they made sure I had a chance to meet one-on-one with Senator Singleton. The next day, Senator Singleton became the co-sponsor of the one of the amendment bills on the Senate side to make to that actually became law to make New Jersey veterans included as a protected class. So that day is actually the start of victory.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

That's amazing, Bill. It really is. And then you not only did that, I'll I'll show this image here and I'll see if I can get a few more images up there, but you organized a march. Tell me where you found the people to do this and how you got this going. And I'll see if while you're talking, I can pull up a few more images for my viewing audience.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

So Ed Ed Molena is a big veterans advocate in New Jersey VFW. Now, to be sincere, I like the VFW, but I kind of stay away from it because their common denominator, they bring veterans together, but their common denominator is a bar. At every VFW, they got a pretty prominent bar. To be sincere with me, and I

Adventure Therapy And The SEAL Swim

SPEAKER_03 48:35

think a lot of combat vets, especially guys in special forces, it's not good for us to drink.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

No, I I I will tell you, I've uh quit drinking. I'm I'm now like sober for about three, it'll be three years this this May. And it was one of the best decisions I made. I I definitely don't judge people who who drink. I want to make that clear because not everybody had the crutch that I did, but it was a crutch for my anxiety and it would cover up things. And instead of me dealing with those uncomfortable feelings, I would drink. And I think a lot of veterans can relate to that. And so I agree with you, Bill. Sometimes the emphasis on alcohol at some of these post-events are not good. Um, I'm very fortunate. I have a I have a beautiful post here in Ocean Springs, Mississippi. But I said this online and I'll say it here, and I'll say it in person, which is I don't think the national headquarters is for the VFW. I can't speak to any other organization, but I don't think they're reflective of the of some of the views of the members, which of course is always going to happen. But I do believe they've become so focused on legislation at the expense of posts that are not in the best shape, that need a lot of tender, loving care. And that's just my opinion, again, my opinion only. But that has also been a frustration for me about some of these veteran organizations, is that at the local level, Bill, it's, and this is where your adventure therapy comes in, it's really tough to make friends and to feel like you're a part of the community. You really have to get yourself out there and find those organizations locally that are your tribe. And if you're not from a particular area or you don't have family there, I think that makes it even more hard, more, more difficult. And a lot of these veterans are feeling isolated. And we all know what happens when veterans feel isolated. And so that's where your adventure therapy, like the New York City SEAL Swim, like Rob Sweetman's the Ryan Larkin Invitational Adventure Race, that's where these events come in, is because they can, of course, we all have to travel and fly to get to them, but it it's definitely better than sitting at home and not feeling like you have any friends or you don't have any support.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

Yeah, you you you're so right. And we energize each other where we come together in a good thing. Now, you're the the VFW legislative committees, you know, they to be honest, I used to be on the New Jersey VFW legislative committee. I was actually the only Iraq veteran, but I had a viral disagreement with former Chris Christie at the time. And I talked with him several times about different veteran initiatives. One was basically trying to get him to pass some type of law that would give New Jersey businesses tax incentives if they hired veterans and things like that. And when we had our viral disagreement about the I I said, hey, to within the committee, because it was a very small committee, the New Jersey, I said, Hey, you saw how this guy just treated me. I said, You you gotta make a statement. And their their position was you're advocating for ruckers, and it wasn't per se a veterans thing, and and basically you kind of put yourself out there. And I was like, Well, if you're not gonna support me here, I'm gonna have to step down. And so that's what I did. But I kept that in my pocket. To be honest with you, the same thing a lot of times with these, especially to be honest with you, a lot of veteran advocates I've seen, they don't know how to fight back. I'm just gonna be honest. And a lot, I think a lot of their type of typical type of tactics is to kind of butter up and and and do that way. And I think that's the preferred method if it can actually be fruitful. You know, outcome just stop buys the means type of scenario. But a lot of times I think they're just getting jerked around and not shit's happening. And so I think I took a different approach because a lot of some of these veteran leaders in New Jersey were like, hey, you're going about it the wrong way. Because you know, I'm literally have signs with the Senate Assembly speaker and assembly president, and this, you know, I got them on big signs that looks like they're sitting on toilets.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yes, I'm showing one of those images now for our listening audience, and they were humorous. I mean, they they what was the reaction to the public? I'm curious. Like the day that you were marching with those signs, were were do people even understand?

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Got a lot of horns halting. I tried to use humor, like I wanted to use humor, but I kind of wanted to embarrass them a bit. And it actually, I think the the parade with the veterans, I think that sent a message. Like, I'm gonna call you, I'm gonna call you right out, like have no doubt. Like, do do right by us. Like, I'm not playing games.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Yep, do do do the right thing, do the right thing.

SPEAKER_03 53:36

It's a disgrace that they had 43 other protected classes, but not New Jersey veterans, like under the New Jersey law against discrimination, like it's a disgrace. Like, I'm not here to like beg and plead, like, let's fight. Right, for sure. If you're not gonna do right, like, have no doubt, Bill Brown's gonna get in your shit.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

No, but I I think that that's sometimes what's needed. And and there is always going to be the soft approach, and you try to do that, but I can tell you, even in my own community in public affairs, that did not work so well. They they just don't care. I mean, if and and sometimes it's just if the if the right levers are not holding somebody's feet to the fire, it's just like with kids, I'm sure. I don't have kids, but I'm I'm guessing it's the same thing. And you have to have a consequence. And if there's not a consequence, then sometimes things are just not going to happen. And so the best way sometimes to get a legislator or to get a law passed is to shame people into into complying by by by exposing what they are doing, and sometimes that's what you have to do.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

Teresa, if I had money and I could ship money into their campaigns or whatever, would yeah, Bill Brown, he only has certain tools available to him.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

Right, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

I have to work with what I got, and you know, God's blessed me in a way because I'm an attorney and I like to fight. I like I like to fight. Let's just be honest. I like to fight for good.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I do too.

SPEAKER_03 55:11

There's a lot of good things to fight out there for, and I love our country. So I try, and here's you know what I try to do to be honest. I try like even the swim, like with the American flags or with the Statue of Liberty or LSL, you know, the World Trade Center, like those are all powerful, iconic landmarks, and they all have huge symbols of you know, of emotional, you know, like framework for our country and what our country is founded on, what our country's about, what it's been through, how it's evolved. And so I try to use reason and logic in my in my arguments, in my position, because I I truly believe in some of my most successful endeavors as far as advocacy, that's that's the truth. But I'm gonna tell you something else. So I work at Parlo Tory Law Group, right? Now I people might don't know this, but I've taken on some huge organizations, I've taken on the SEAL teams. There was some bad leadership, the worst case of racism in the SEAL teams. I've represented a black SEAL pro bono. I I've taken on some sexual assaults in the SEAL teams, I've taken on the CIA. How many people can say that? I can't talk about it, but I have a hundred percent. I've taken on some big corporations, big representing Green Berets and other veterans. I've had some big ass legal battles. Now I've been blessed because I worked for Tim Paulitore and Parliatory Law Group, but a lot of people out there don't realize as far as the legal scraps, like I've I've thrown down.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

And that's that's what I love about you, Bill, is that it's not just the intellectual side either. You you you complement everything you're doing on the legal side with what you're doing on the fundraiser and the charity side. And that's that that to me is like such a winning combination. Like, and I haven't seen that in anybody else. Like either they're just a straight, I would say straight stick, you know, like pilot kind of thing, they're straight stick advocacy, or they're just in the charity world and doing, you know, be being in a do-gooder. And and it's just like, I don't know, like I was always raised to be very charitable, and and and my my mom and dad were just the kinds of people that, you know, I had some issues with my mother, but I I definitely think that they instilled good values in me and uh the value of service and service before self and giving back. And so that's what I love about your work is that it's not just the advocacy side either and the fight, fight, fight. It's the fundraising side and the fundraising side, the nonprofit world. And there's a lot of fight, fight, fight in that world too. I mean, there's a lot of things that you guys are doing with the New York City SEAL swim. I mean, this year, my God, you guys should look at all the promotion and the marketing and just all the different groups, special thanks to Deep Sea Locker, to MediaMark. I mean, there's just been such a collaboration of different organizations that have come together to make this swim successful so far this year.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

You know, you brought up a really great point. You know, uh earlier you said about coalitions. You know, that where have I

Coalition Building With Lawmakers

SPEAKER_03 58:40

been really blessed? And all these endeavors, I've had I've been blessed to attract really good people, right? Beyond the Brotherhood, stepped up. You know, to be uh to be honest with you, I called out the leadership of Navy SEAL Foundation. Uh, in my opinion, Robin King is she needs to go, she's lost her way. And I I you know I used her own financial statements out there, made it public to make that point pretty hard. And the community knows that I'm right. The uh Beyond a Brotherhood had my back and stepped up to because this event does too much good for too many beautiful people. And we kind of talked about it earlier, but also we talk about MediaMark, Spotlight, the promotional team that they're doing and an amazing job.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

You're talking about Deep, Deep Sea Locker who's helping church, making all that merch and and just putting together beautiful visual imagery and and just product. I mean, everything is just so different this year. It feels you know, I was only a smaller part of it last year as a volunteer, but I can tell, you know, as a media person myself, that there has just been a leveling up in the promotion and the and the just the people that you've brought together. Not only that, but you've brought together some really amazing and influential people within the the Navy SEAL community and beyond. I mean, tell me a little bit about some of the people, some of the high profile people that you've been you've been able to invite to this event.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:13

Well, I I I think the uh the event it's it's true. Like we talked, we talked about it earlier. Like it's really about events of therapy, it's about honoring those who put it on the line for our country, it's about sending a patriotic message, like it's true. And so, you know, we do get a lot of high caliber seals that come and do, you know, come and promote this event. This year's Dakota Myers, metal von a winner. We have Brad Geary, SEL Team Six, Javon Quarrels. He he's has Fox News show. So it looks like Joey Jones might come as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Ray Cash.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

I love Ray. He's uh gave us some love today. Jason Redmond gave us a shot. There's a lot of high-profile guys within that community that help promote it. And and I think uh that uh when we're together and we're doing good, we help. It's not just this event because it inspires others to do other events like Rob Sweben. Yeah, I love it. Rob is a super talented guy, and to be honest, you and Rob actually, when I look at all my endeavors, the one that had the greatest effect is probably Operation Full Court Press for Secretary of War Pete Heggseth. You know, when his nomination was on the line, if you think about it, JD Vance, the vice president, had to step up, yeah. Had to do the final vote. That's how close it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

And to be sincere, you were probably my biggest star out of everyone in the press conference, in the most you you and Jessica, and then where it was most vital, because some of those Republican female senators were absolutely they didn't want to do it because of what they had heard and what they had supposed about his past without really looking into it or watching the many interviews that Megan Kelly did and and and background investigations on this issue that she did, which is unfortunate. But I, you know, I will tell you, Bill, that was one of the first times that I really found my voice publicly was was speaking up like that. I I did not expect to speak that day and did not prepare any remarks. I did not have anything written down that was all off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

But it was more powerful, by the way. It was it was it was real, you know, hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

It was very raw. It was very and it's funny thing is is that I was referencing the 2015 Marine Corps study that we're still talking about to this day, because there still hasn't sadly yet been a new study released on this issue, and we still can't seem to talk about this issue like adults. We're I'm talking about the women in combat issue, like we still can't have a serious conversation about what that entails, which is unfortunate. And that's what I was saying. We should have conversations, and I, you know, and I got written up for forgetting a disclaimer, which is whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

They tried to cancel you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

They tried to cancel me for saying we should have a conversation at the end of the day. That's what I said. And Tara Coop, in my opinion, I don't know for sure, but I speculate that she went and tattled on me to the chief of naval operations office, and that ended up getting a nasty phone call from my boss in the middle of a crowded food court all by myself. And then I'm like freaking out in real time. I mean, it was it was stressful and it was unnecessary looking back on it. But the point being is that Bill, you inspired me that day, among many other days that you inspire me. And I really do believe, I mean, that led to me speaking up at the military influencer conference when they tried to cancel me there. I mean, but all these things kind of work together when you think about it. And it's really finding your voice, and it's finding your cause, finding your North Star, and figuring out what you're supposed to do with your life. And I really want to thank you for the for that guidance and that leadership.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

I I thank you. And it and the truth was you and you and Jessica were there's a reason why Fox broadcasted that live that was happening. If you ever look at YouTube and you see the millions of people that watched it, that was right before the hearing the next day.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

And there's no doubt that those female senators that were on that, you know, yeah, and all the leftist reporters were giving us such stink eye.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

It was so fascinating. And like I said, Tara Cook came right up to me right afterwards from the Associate Press, and she's like, What's your duty status? And I was like, I'm on leave, I'm in civilian clothes. I made sure to tell my chain of command where I was and what I was doing, and they did. They had full knowledge of it, and then they just got me on some stupid technicality about not saying I was speaking beneficial.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:11

Looking for your scalp, yeah. Yeah, they trust me, they they they tried to destroy my ability to earn a livelihood. If it wasn't for Tim Paulitori, I would not be able to get a job in any big law firm in this area for sure. But you went in. It's kind of funny. I I had the honor to a friend of mine, Kaz Larson, another CEO, just we got recommissioned, and the Secretary of War did the recommissioning. And I got a chance to actually talk to the Secretary of War in his office. We actually had a catch with the football for a bit. And he was talking about some of the battles, you know, that he's in battles, a lot of battles. Oh, I'm sure. And and it's kind of just like you. You're in some battles, like book and you know, have that military influence is. Thing that what happened there was horrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:02

It's awful.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

A bunch of nasty little piranhas.

unknown 1:06:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:06

It really is. And it's sad because these are people who are just propping themselves up as being leaders in the veteran community. And the thing was is that if people don't know this, is that I was so excited to be there. I remember I was texting with you and with Tim, and we were talking about how happy I was. I think I took a picture in front of Bucky's. I was like so happy, like in my element. And like the first night I'm like posing with everybody. And then and then to have somebody do that, like put out a video just full of lies about my work and about the stuff that I do on the Stories of Service podcast and why I take on the cases I do. It was just, it was so disappointing. And to this day, the uh the organizers of the military influencer conference have never once offered taken me up on my offer to have a polite discussion and to talk through what happened and to have some healing about it. Because I don't I don't I I mean I have no animosity or ill will towards them, nor do I have against Janae Sergio.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

They're most here's the truth. Your podcast, there's

Marching, Humor, And Public Pressure

SPEAKER_03 1:07:10

nobody who's there's nobody who does it the way you do it. Where you give regular veteran service members a chance to air it out. Yep, and that shit needs to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

It does.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:22

You keep driving forward, and you know what's funny? It's one of the things I told I told the Secretary Ward, because he was telling me how he's in all these battles, and I said, You want to know what, sir? I said, if you weren't battling every day, you ain't doing it right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Yeah, that's how I feel. That is exactly how I feel. And I that's why I took it. That's why I took on the show the way that I did, and the tone that I have with the stories of surface podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

You threw you through down. You yeah, you they came at you, you gave it right back. And you know what? I I I love our country, but here's the truth, man. Democracy is a proactive sport.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

It sure is, Bill. It sure is.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:03

Roll up your sleeves and get down. And the whole thing is now like, hey, I'm following your lead, I'm throwing down with these law firms. I am like people, my whole case, people in the legal community in New Jersey, they know like Bill Brown is throwing the fuck down. Huh? They because the truth was when I said I wanted to amend my complaint, and when they when I found out that I got that threatening text message from the, you know, from the port authority, and then I I found out they're trying to have meetings without me and NSF and the Navy SEAL Foundation, you know, saying that if I'm part of this swim, it's not happening. And the Navy SEAL Foundation pulled out because Robin King, in my opinion, she's fucking lost her way, and a lot of SEALs feel that way. And I was like, all right, you think you're gonna fuck with my swim that helps so many people when I'm gonna lay down, stand a fuck by. Yeah, like you you like you, I guess you didn't realize. Like, you're gonna find out.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

Well, we're gonna have a great event and it's gonna be amazing. Can you tell the audience as we're starting to, as I always do, lay on the plane after a little over an hour of talking? Tell me a little bit about some first. Do you have did you have anything more you wanted to add about the book?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

I really appreciate you kind of bringing that around the table. Of course. So, you know, this book really the one of my goals in life is I love our country. And there's a lot of beautiful people that have really put it on a line, have died for our country, and I really think it's cool and it's right to respect them and to love and be proud of our country and what we become. And that's what the CO swim, one of our big messages is to kind of send that positive, patriotic message of unity. And so the book is basically it just has some pictures, it's a picture book, you know, and it's it has some really epic pictures about just you know what it's about here. You see that police officers, firefighters, veterans and seals, all just coming together, loving our country, having a fun patriotic event. Gorgeous, it is absolutely gorgeous. Yeah, you see that? This is what our country is. Now, the truth is it has some big publishing printing overhead costs. Sure. And so right now I'm looking for advertisers, and basically we'll put your company or your name in the page. If if you guys want to help help cover some of those initial printing costs, okay. You can you can send me an email at Wibround32099 at gmail.com, WI Brown32099 at gmail.com, and just say, hey, I'd like to purchase an advertising advertisement in your book. You can put a little message in there, and the whole entire SEAL community will absolutely see it. This is a great book, and it has a very important message.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:22

And that message is that our country is beautiful, and that we are a beautiful people, and that America is beautiful, and how we evolved is beautiful, and and yeah, and adventure therapy because I definitely believe in adventure therapy.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

Yep, and then definitely want to give a shout out to New York City Seal Swims.com. That is the official website for the New York City SEAL Swim. Thanks to MediaMark and also to Deep Sea Locker, who has done so much with your merchandise. In fact, I believe you guys just launched a bunch of merchandise, correct? Oh, that's great. That's awesome graphic. Awesome, beautiful, beautiful. And if you go on the website for New York City SEALs, I might be able to just show it while we're talking, but you can just see so so much on there with the merchandise and everything else. It's just it's a it's a you know, there's where's the the the merch? I think the merch you just put on there just recently.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

But if you go up, if you scroll to the top, okay, and you go to the menu. I'm gonna top the blue merchandise right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:39

I hear they got some really good looking models.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

Yep, yep. All right, Bill. Well, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:47

And by the way, 40% of that goes to Beyond the Brotherhood. That's our fundraiser for this year. And Beyond the Brotherhood, what they do is they help SEALs, war fighter veterans transition once they get out. Because I'm gonna be honest with you, in my opinion, the guys in and in special forces, the majority of us, our experiences I think are a little more high tempo.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

Obviously, that's what I was about saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:18

Yeah, and so I think for some of us, it's actually we have a very tough transition time. And to be honest with you, I have a tough transition time too. And and so Beyond a Brotherhood is helping those young war fighters when they get out get transition in a way that you know they can be very successful. Because to be

Finding Your Voice Through Conflict

SPEAKER_03 1:13:45

honest with you, like it's a very like high adrenaline type of uh experience, especially when you've done it for a bit. I'm sure yeah, and so the mentality of I think guys in special forces is definitely a little different. And here's the truth even you can look at a a Bill Brown as an example, if Bill Brown has a lot of energy and a huge amount of willpower. So if you get Bill Brown's uh direction in the right way, he's gonna be doing a lot of good things.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:24

But if you get Bill Brown in the wrong direction, he's gonna destroy himself really fast. And not only that, it can make you it's just not a good thing. So trying to get these young guys that are coming off and get them focused in the right way, especially, you know, so they can they can excel. And I think it's it's very helpful. And here's something else I don't in some ways I have a complex. And here's the truth. I have to like a bias, I have to be truthful. I evaluate uh guys who've been in special forces and and and down range uh differently than I do others. I just have to be honest with my bias. And so when guys are trying to give me good gouts and they haven't experienced that or been through that, sometimes my own bias gets in the way of me taking it in. And so one of the cool things about Beyond a Brotherhood, it's ran by other SEALs. So I think it's easier for these guys that are just getting out to get them reset in the right direction faster. So yeah, so I think you know, Beyond a Brotherhood and is a good group. I think they're doing good work, and I'm glad to work with them.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

Yeah, I'm I'm really glad that you were able to partner with them this year. And and to your point, absolutely, there are some jobs in the military that are more difficult and more challenging than other jobs, and and that just doesn't diminish the people who do the other jobs. It's just a simple fact. The person who's doing you know hard construction labor is obviously doing more physical labor than somebody who's sitting in an office. These are just facts. And I think that an organization that is mentoring from within is so powerful and so needed to help the to help those people adjust, adapt, and reintegrate into the civilian community because it's even hard for veterans like myself to integrate. So if it's hard for me, it's 10 times harder for somebody who's had that kind of job and that kind of stress. So love what you're doing, Bill. Thank you so much for your the opportunity to come back on to do the show. And I really can't wait to be a part of the New York City Seal Swim later on this weekend and then hopefully the next month after that. So take care. I'll meet you backstage. I'm gonna go full screen, but is there anything else you wanted to say to the audience before I let you go on screen?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:58

Yeah, I don't know if they appreciate, but in my opinion, I think you are one of the superstar veteran

Book, Merch, And Veteran Transition Work

SPEAKER_03 1:17:05

advocates of our time.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

I appreciate that. I really do. Well, I'm not gonna stop, you know. I it's it's some days I tell I I say to myself, Oh, is this gonna be the last one? And then I I think to myself, well, don't stop.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

No, we need you, don't stop. Give us a voice. We need a we need a voice. We need you. Let these guys and gals air it out, put that stuff out there, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

Yep. I just got I'm gonna up my storytelling game. That's my next focus, is and some of my game and technical stuff, as you guys saw at the beginning of the show with the video. But I think all those things will come in time. If you're passionate and you're and you're willing to work hard, those things happen. So thanks, Bill. I'm gonna go full screen, say goodbye to my audience, and I'll meet you backstage to say goodbye. All right, guys. I know I went over our time. Sometimes I do that, but when the conversation is that important, that's just what happens. So hope you all are having an amazing Wednesday. If you want to follow me on socials, I will be at this qualifier on Saturday. We'll see how it goes in Seabright, New Jersey. I'm actually staying with a very new dear friend. Her name is Carly, and

Final Takeaways And Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

she's an amazing social media Maven and uh USA icon. So I really look forward to introducing you guys to her. If you haven't met her already, she was a part of the Ryan Larkin invitational adventure race. So a lot of a lot of crossover between the two charities. But as I always say, please take care of yourselves, please take care of each other, and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye bye now.