The Army Vindicated Me, But is there closure? | S.O.S. #271

A C-section goes wrong, the truth stays buried, and a young soldier spends seven years fighting for the words that should have come on day one: we made a mistake, and we’re going to take care of you. We sit down again with Lauren Paladini, whose delivery at Womack Army Medical Center at Fort Bragg ended with a severed vessel connected to her right uterine artery, repeated hemorrhaging, emergency civilian surgeries, and a hysterectomy at just 22 years old. The worst part isn’t only the injury. It’s the silence, the missing documentation, and the long institutional grind that follows when you need answers. 

We talk candidly about the military medical malpractice claims process, why it can feel like the military is judge and jury, and how the Feres doctrine shapes everything when active duty service members can’t sue like civilians can. You’ll hear what it took to reopen a stalled case, why specialized legal and medical expertise matters, and what it’s like to face denials, delays, and experts brought in to dispute your reality. We also dig into the bigger picture: more than 760 claims filed since Congress created a pathway, a strikingly low approval rate, and what reforms are still needed for real due process and accountability. 

Then we go to the moment most people never reach: the day Lauren is told the appeals board reverses the Army’s determination and finds a breach of the standard of care. We unpack the emotional whiplash of being vindicated, why validation still doesn’t equal healing, and what life looks like after years in fight-or-flight. If you care about military health care, patient safety, veterans’ rights, and institutional betrayal, this conversation stays with you. Subscribe, share this with someone who served, and leave a review so more people hear these stories.

Stories of Service presents guests’ stories and opinions in their own words, reflecting their personal experiences and perspectives. While shared respectfully and authentically, the podcast does not independently verify all statements. Views expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the host, producers, government agencies, or podcast affiliates.

Transcript

Why Military Malpractice Hurts

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Good evening, everybody. I know that I do a lot of episodes on people who are seeking justice through the military. And that comes in all shapes and forms. That could be they are fighting their inspector general case to have vindication because of a toxic work environment. That could be because a crime has occurred and they are not getting the justice they feel they deserve, or they were falsely accused, or they believe they were falsely accused of a crime. But one of the most heart-wrenching issues that I cover on the Stories of Service podcast is when somebody has been the victim of medical malpractice. I have done a couple shows on this, and you guys might recall last year, last July, I had Lauren Paladini on the Stories of Service podcast. And at that time, she was in the middle of a very long and protracted legal battle, which I would argue was might be a bit unnecessary considering the outcome. But it was in regards to her delivery when she was in the hospital and giving birth to her baby. And today we're going to be talking about what it really takes to get that closure and to get through the military claims process. It is not an easy road. And she's going to tell us a little bit about it and how she's staying sane through this process, even after being vindicated for a medical malpractice claim. So I welcome today Lauren Paladini. Lauren, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I'm good. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

I'm doing really well. Welcome to the Stories of Service Podcast. Ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service. And as we'd always do to get these shows started, we'll play an intro from my father, Charlie Picker.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS, Stories of Service. Hosted by Teresa Carpenter, here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So, as I said, since the last time I've had Lauren on, the Army has finally acknowledged wrongdoing and awarded her compensation in her case. But does vindication actually equal closure? And this takes it to that next step. I often have people on who are fighting their cases, but I don't often have an opportunity to talk to somebody once the case has been resolved. And today we're going to discuss what happened after the victory, whether accountability brought healing, and if the military medical claims process truly goes far enough for victims and their families. We're also going to share the state of the military malpractice claims today and what reforms still be needed. Lauren, thank you and welcome again.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Thank you, Teresa. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Well, thank you so much for agreeing to come on. I know this is a pretty painful story and it's not fun to go back and revisit it, but I think that there are a lot of others who have had something happen to them in the military. And unfortunately, as we know, because of the Ferris doctrine, nobody who is on active duty who has a wrongdoing done to them is able to sue the military, which denies claimants the opportunity for cross-examination. It denies claimants the opportunities to hold witnesses accountable. And it doesn't give our military members the proper due process protections that we as civilians fully enjoy. So today we're going to talk more about

The C-Section Injury And Cover-Up

SPEAKER_02 3:34

that. And to get us started, can you take us back for the ones who may not have watched the first episode and do your best to summarize what happened as you were about to give birth to your baby?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, so I was in the United States Army. I was stationed at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. And I was 22 years old at the time. My husband and I found out we were pregnant. And early on in our pregnancy, I had asked to get birth off post because that I had heard some pretty bad horror stories, and I wanted to kind of seek post, you know, off post healthcare. And they had actually denied my request and said that I did not have a choice that I would actually have to have healthcare on post. And so I didn't have a choice. And at almost 42 weeks pregnant, I went to the ER at Wilmack Army Medical Center. I was admitted. I was in labor for 29 hours. And during my C-section, a captain in the military cut my right uterine artery and with the help of a lieutenant colonel, covered up that injury, didn't disclose it, didn't diagnose it, sent me home with no information, was not made aware of the injury. And five days later, I hemorrhaged at home. And because of the critical status that I was in, I was taken to a civilian hospital where I was I had several surgeries. I had two DNC procedures, a bacteria boolean procedure, two uterine artery embolizations, several blood transfusions, plasma transfusions, and ultimately a hysterectomy at 22 years old.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

When you say that they lied about it and covered it up, what did they tell you was the reason for the excessive bleeding?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Nothing. They didn't tell me anything. They said that, you know, you kind of blood a little more than normal, but we're not too concerned about it. You don't need medication, you don't need a blood transfusion. They sent me home. They had given me one iron transfusion and sent me home. And yeah, that was pretty that they didn't tell me anything. I had no idea. And it actually took quite some digging to find out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Until when? And then what was the next step that made you that that that caused you to come back? Because you because my understanding is you went back into the hospital because the lady didn't go away. I think you have frozen on me a little bit. I might not be the only one that's seeing that. Let me see if we can try to get her back on there.

Malpractice Claims And Missing Due Process

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yes. So while she is trying to adjust to see if we can get her back on the podcast, one of the facts that I wanted to bring up about military malpractice claims, I put it in the show notes, and I think it's pretty important to talk about, which is that more than 760 malpractice claims have been filed since Congress created a pathway for active duty members to seek compensation. However, of that 760, only 10% have been approved. And I don't know about you guys, but for me, I just cannot believe that there are 90% of people out there who don't have legitimate claims of medical malpractice. So it goes back to what I always talk about with you guys and what I hope one day will change. And it doesn't matter if I'm talking about the incident review board, it doesn't matter if I'm talking about the IG process, it doesn't matter if I'm talking about the court-martial process, is the fact that military members lack the proper protections for redress. And we see this play itself out in so many of these legal procedures. And that's why I cover it in so many different arenas. I did hear back from Lauren. I think she's trying to log back in as we speak. And I think I got her back on right now. Are you there, Lauren?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I'm here. Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_02 7:53

I can, I can. I was just gibberjawling about some of the statistics regarding uh medical malpractice and the claims process. So back to the story. No, it happens. It happens. And I just jump in and talk about this issue in some other context to really talk about how this is a bigger issue that isn't just about your case. This is about all the medical malpractice cases. This is about the whole entire due process system within the military, which does not give the same protections as civilian courts. And while we know that in a wartime situation, there might not be those same protections, and we understand that. But when it comes to not giving service members the justice that they deserve to have safe working environments, to have a proper court martial if they're accused of a crime, that they have the same opportunities to present their to get their day in court, or when it comes to the incident review board, when people are victims of domestic violence, or when there's somebody's being falsely accused of domestic violence. We need to have those same protections in place. Or if it's at the child care center, as we know with Mandy Feint and the fight that she's taking on right now. All of those issues deserve due process. And that was one something that really stuck out to me as I was reading your claim appeal. It's the fact that you were not afforded that due process protection. And because of that, this case dragged on for years, and in my opinion, unnecessarily. So let's go back to what happened when your bleeding did not stop and you had to go back to the hospital.

Civilian Surgeries And The First Red Flags

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, so five days after my C-section, I was taken to Cape Fear, which is where I had all of those surgeries. Um, I had had several surgeries at this point, two DNCs, a bacteria balloon, and one uterine artery embolization. And then this is kind of when they had hoped that the artery would repair itself. They sent me home and said, you know, the uterine artery embolization is like a 99%, you know, success rate. And that, you know, within about two to three weeks, that gel foam would dissolve and hopefully the artery would be, you know, healed. But that's not what happened. The injury was just too much. That even after those two and a half weeks, I bled out again, where I was taken back to the hospital and I had another uterine artery embolization, which failed immediately, and you know, was ultimately had a hysterectomy at the civilian hospital.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

At that point, you just figured that there was something that happened to you medically, but you didn't suspect malpractice. Is that correct? You just figured this was just an accident.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

So after the first hospital stay at the civilian hospital, we were completely like, we have no idea what's, you know, what was kind of going on there. But we had actually received a visit from a patient advocacy from Fort Bragg, sorry, Walmack Army Medical Center. And they came to the civilian hospital and they they they kind of said, like, if you have any plans to, you know, file any suit or anything like that, I can't talk to you. And that was kind of like what had actually initially caused a red flag, like a concern. Right. And then from there, I hadn't even had a hysterectomy at this point. From there, I had requested a meeting with the commander of the hospital and every single surgeon who was in my delivery. And unfortunately, there were maybe like two people who came. The doctor who cut my artery is what did not show up. And so there had been, you know, and when we had that meeting, they were very much like, well, you know, it we don't know what happened. Like everything went normal. They kind of like completely downplayed it. But then obviously, like after my hysterectomy, and then we got up my medical records, and then I just started digging. I really suffered a lot after my hysterectomy that first month. I had a bunch of panic attacks. I was constantly in the ER, so many weird symptoms. I mean, my body had just gone through so much at that point, and I was just so terrified. You know, all of my hemorrhages happened when I was sleeping. And so I had a hard time sleeping. It was, it was just, it was really, it was really hard. But throughout that first month is when I really just started to question a lot of things like, was this my body that did this? Was it the surgeon who did this? Was it a mistake? Was it malpractice? There were so many questions that I was kind of searching answers for. And throughout some of the medical records, we had read that there was an intrapartum injury to the uterine artery, which means an injury during birth. And that is kind of and that was stated by the civilian hospital. And so there were just a ripple effect, but it no one ever it's kind of hard because they had must have said your right uterine artery was injured, but they never came out and said, like, hey, your right uterine artery was injured by this doctor at Walmart Army Medical Center. It was like we had we spent years searching for those answers, but really in the first nine months is when we kind of figured out what had happened, and then the Richards Day Scall Act had actually passed, you know, a few months after that, and that's when we had filed our claim.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Right.

Lawyer Missteps And Reopening The Case

SPEAKER_02 13:09

And my understanding is as per our last show, you originally filed your claim, unfortunately, with a lawyer whose staff or the lawyer themselves or whatever did not properly work that claim through the system. So you wound up having to leave that attorney and go with another attorney who was able to push this claim to the finish line. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

That is correct. Yeah, I hired an attorney. She was very much the face of this whole process, and she represented my case for four years. And under her representation, I had actually received not one but two denials. But it was about a year before I had ever, you know, was made aware of the denials. And as soon as I found out about those denials, obviously I immediately terminated her as my attorney. And I went to DC, and that's where I met with the Secretary of the Army, and I said, like, I want my case reopened. You know, they ultimately had failed to file an appeal. And when I had gone to this general counsel of the Army and had my meeting with her, she she said that they were able to dig into my file and see that there had also been an administrative error on the Army side and allowed me to case. And so once my case was reopened, I actually came back home and spent a few weeks trying to find an attorney um right down the street from where I was.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Wow. And I can only imagine that it's pretty hard to find an attorney that has this kind of expertise to be able to dig through medical drawings, medical files, and take what a doctor says in a medical report and turn it into a format to where somebody like a lay person without that medical expertise can understand what you're talking about. Did you did was that also challenging even for you as a lay person who doesn't have medical training to understand?

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, you know, I had spent, I did not have any support from my first attorney. It was very much, I was very much alone throughout that process, always begging for answers, always begging for updates, never had guidance, never, I was I was completely lost the entire time that she had represented me. That wasn't the case when I, you know, moved over to my new law firm. But even then when when I went to his name's Aaron with Henley Law, once I'd gone to Aaron and I, you know, I said I I want you guys to take my case, blah, blah, blah. I was still very much lost. There were still a lot of answers that I did not have, you know, there were still a lot of questions that I didn't have answers to. There was still a lot that I wasn't aware of, or honestly, how bad it actually was, and how bad the cover-up actually was. And so I learned that through, you know, errors, representation. But to answer your question, yeah, I mean, I have hundreds and thousands of medical records and hundreds of imaging. There's so many experts involved on the military side, on my side. So, yeah, it's a lot for someone who one is not in a music process, but then also for someone who is not aware of anything medically related.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

And at the at the end of the day, as I read the claim appeal, it really boils down to they made the cut in the wrong spot. I mean, that's like that's they and and and I don't know. And I'm curious from your if you can remember this just out of curiosity, how did they cover that up? How did they cover up the fact that they made a cut in the improper area?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah, well, you know, I'm not again, I'm not a doctor, so it's so hard for me, but from what I understand is they had just gone too far over. And at the end of the day, it's never been about the injury because things happen in a surgery, and the goal was for my daughter to be born and to be born healthy. But the failure to properly repair it, the failure to disclose it, the failure to document it, the failure to say, hey, if you bleed at all for any reason when you step out of this hospital, this is why. Like it would, there was so much negligence and malpractice in what happened after they cut my artery.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Because they couldn't sue anyway. What would have been what were their jobs on the line if they had been honest that they made a mistake? I mean, no doctor, it's just like doctors don't just admit when they make mistakes, but in this case, you couldn't sue them anyway. So why not just admit that they did something wrong? Is it is it more of a professional liability if they were to have said that they made a mistake?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

I really don't know. I I asked my that I asked myself that often. I bet you do. As a I mean, she told me outright. She told me my husband in an appointment with Hadith her, you know, it doesn't matter because you can't sue. And that that was when I had found out that I, in fact, could not sue. But even at that point, that's not even what I was interested in. What I was interested in is answers and what happened to me. Like, did I have a bleeding disorder? You know, like I wanted to know if there was something medically wrong. And she immediately ran to like legal. And so I asked myself that often, like, what did you gain in hiding it from me? Right. Because you ruined my life and you changed the person I was, and you put me through so much. And if you would have just been honest, I mean, what you I mean, the military doesn't hold them accountable regardless. So even if you got a slap on your wrist, I mean, my life could have been much different. The outcome could have been much different had they just been honest.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

And I I wonder though, and this brings up a larger question that those physicians out there can answer is if you do admit you're wrong, are you pretty much barred from ever practicing medicine again? And is that what is that what they're up against, even if they admit it? It's kind of like the way the military absolves responsibility for anyone who creates a toxic work environment or somebody who falsely accuses a sailor. They just don't want to punish people who make mistakes or who do something or who commit wrongdoing a lot of times. Or they just swing the arm of justice on whoever they happen to like least. I mean, that's honestly sometimes what I what I see across some of these cases. And so I feel like there should have been obviously a process by which they could safely say, I made a mistake. I I didn't I didn't know. I I cut a little bit too far and I made a mistake. I screwed up and I'm so sorry. And we're gonna do everything we can to take care of you from this point forward. Had they done that, I would like to think they wouldn't have lost their medical license because we aren't perfect and things do happen. And they didn't. And instead, you went through how many years of fighting this case? How many years was it, Lauren, that you fought the case?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

It took it was seven since seven years since Andrew Heard, it's been six years file nine.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah. So seven years that you were fighting this and going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And last year when I had you on, I think you were in the process of you had not submitted the appeal yet. You were working on the appeal. So tell us a little bit about what happened after you submitted

Appeals Board Battle With DHA Experts

SPEAKER_02 20:48

the appeal. Like what was, I mean, that's a I I read the appeal, it it stands on its merits. What was the reaction once you submitted that?

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah, so I think the final appeal that you actually read is is the last one that we had submitted in March. We submitted it, I believe, like March 18th or 19th of this year. And the reaction was they they granted my claim. But we had actually filed several appeals before that. Um one of the things that has kind of bothered me a lot through this process is you know, they always say it's a non-adversarial process, that it's not me versus the army. It's the army and me coming together to find truth in the case. And I just couldn't be further from that. It's very much been me against the army and the army against me, unfortunately. And it shouldn't have to be that way because the facts are the facts and the images are the images in my case. My case really wasn't, it really was black and white in a lot of areas. But in terms of what happened after I filed my appeal with DHA, you know, the army fought hard to deny my case, and they did. They denied my case multiple times. And Once I went to DHA, rather than DHA kind of being independent a little bit and just overseeing the claim of like what did the army present, what did Lauren present, and her attorney and having the board kind of vote on that, DHA actually hired their own experts, and their own experts attacked me as well. Obviously, we won my case, and so I wouldn't say that they did it successfully, but you know, it was me against the army, and then me against GHA fortune.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Right, right. Yeah, that's very unfortunate. I I can't even imagine what it must have been like for you to have to go through this for so many years. And throughout this process, you probably learned too that you're not alone. There's a lot of other people who have had medical injuries and have had, I mean, I had Staff Sergeant Carter, his case went all the way up to the Supreme Court, and he still was denied his claim ultimately by the Supreme Court because they knew it would overturn Ferris, and they didn't want that to happen. So unfortunately, he, while he does get VA care for life, he is not able to sue for unfortunately a back surgery gone wrong that left him paralyzed. So these things do happen. And what has been the reaction, or what has been what has been your I would say, how how what was it like for you to learn that this case was not an anomaly? Like this wasn't just something happening to you, but was happening to so many other service members.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I mean, honestly, I just think it's a shame. You know, the military is so good, and it it has been so good for so many years, but unfortunately, they just the way that they treat service members, the way that they treat us is just awful. It happens too often. The the way that they treat people, the the malpractice that occurs, I mean, you can't even believe it sometimes, just how how awful it is. And honestly, the lack of recourse that service members have, even through this claims process, I mean, the success is is so low. The the numbers are just far, far too low throughout this process.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

As I said, 90% of them are denied. And my understanding is even the person who got the Richards Sky School Act passed also submitted a claim, and that person's claim was also denied. So it is incredibly hard to go through the claims process. And it's also incredibly hard for the military to be the judge and the jury of these cases. It isn't like a truly independent outside entity is looking at them. And something makes me wonder is if you hadn't taken your case public and made it so well known, would they have still continued to deny your case? Sometimes, sadly, it's only the cases that make it into the media and get this outside attention that shines a negative shaming light on the Department of Defense that gets them to get up and act and do something. And I feel like that may have been the case with you as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've I do agree, but I also think in a lot of ways they just don't care. I don't think that they care that my case is in the media. I don't think that they cared that Richard Stay Scott's was in the media. I don't think they care about Ryan Carter. I think I really don't know. I don't know why some people win some cases and why others are denied. Um, I do know 100% without my attorney, my case would have not been successful. And so I I want to believe that being outspoken has helped my case, but I do think it's more of the standing 10 toes down and letting them know that I am not going anywhere. What you did to me was awful. You literally ruined my life. You literally changed everything about the person that I was. And this has never been about the money. It'll never be about the money, and it never has been. It was always about accountability. It was always about the truth and them admitting it and them taking accountability for it. And so I think a lot, I think the they cared more about less about the media, but more about how much I was in Congress and how much I had, you know, senators and congressional offices submitting congressional inquiries constantly. I think that that played a big role. I also think that the experts that I had in my case really helped my case as well.

unknown 26:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

And then, of course, my attorney. I just, there's nothing that I I could have done without Aaron. There's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Well, I I am so happy for you in the terms that you did get the vindication that you deserve. I still don't think obviously it's never going to make you whole and it's never going to bring back what you've lost. And it's it and it's true. I feel the same way that you do about the military. There's so many wonderful things about serving the people we meet, some of the missions that we get to go on, the leadership of certain individuals. But because we operate in this zone of the space that a lot of the civilian community knows next to nothing about because they don't know anyone who serves or they aren't touched by service, I believe that what that does is it allows the military to act with impunity when it comes to certain situations. And Congress is just not motivated to act because they're going to get elected and run for office and do what they do regardless of how they treat our military. And they know that. And I will continue to talk about that until I'm blue in the face talking about it, because it's ridiculous when I hear these kinds of stories, and I want everybody to know what's happening in our military. And I want people to stand up, speak out, use their congressmen, use their senators, and get them to do their job. I mean, there are initiatives underway now to where we can actually monitor what they're doing day to day and what votes they are making on a day-to-day basis. And I think everybody needs to get involved in that and know what the heck the people that we put in office do with their time and how they're spending it because they are acting on our behalf. And when I see stories like yours drag on, it just infuriates me because it should have never had to drag on this long. This should have taken a year. I can understand a year for it to be looked at, but not all these times being looked at over and over and over again. And I think, and I do apologize for all the technical difficulties we're having with this with this episode. I know before we got on the show, Lauren told me that she was having some technical difficulties, and we thought we would try to push through because this is such an important story. And if I can impart anything on to all of you as you watch this, is that you've got to be involved in what goes on in our military. Because if you don't know what's happening and you don't know how our service members are being treated, and you don't see these kinds of stories that I see on the Stories of Service podcast, well, then you don't know what you're sending your daughter, your son. You don't know what's really happening and what's being done with your tax dollars and in your name. And it's one of the things that I get so frustrated about when people talk about the military or they talk about what the government is doing. Well, you have to study what the government is doing. And unfortunately, as one of my listeners is saying, you know, Congress is too busy giving our money for our military and people to Israel. I agree. I mean, there is definitely not a whole lot of transparency about what our money is being done overseas and how it's being spent. I did read a book very recently by Michael T. Lester, had him on my podcast. It's called We Are the Bad Guys. And I don't think the people are the bad guys, but I do think that the money that's being spent in our name is going to causes and to people sometimes that it shouldn't be. We've heard Sean Ryan talk about all the money that the Congress was or that the government was giving to the Taliban. I mean, this goes this goes way deeper than the conversation for today, but it's a really important subject to bring up. And with that, I'm gonna bring Lauren right back on as we try to plow through this show. And I do appreciate everybody's patience. Lauren, do you do you hear me?

SPEAKER_01 31:09

I can hear you. Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Good. Are you on the phone now? It's it looks like you're on the phone, so I think that might be easier.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I'm on, I switched laptops. I switch laptops. I don't know what's going on. I'm so sorry. That is, I am not an IT girl. That is the last thing that I should be doing. So I'm so sorry about that.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

It's okay. I'm not very tech savvy either. It it shocks me that I get as many viewers as I do with my lack of techie skills, but I'd like to think it's because I'm putting on people like yourself who have such a beautiful and authentic and compelling story to tell. And if we've got to kind of get through some of our technical difficulties to have these conversations, well, guess what? So be it. Because that's how I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

That is that is so annoying. I'm so sorry. That's sorry about that.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

No, no, don't don't apologize. And like I said, having done nearly 300 episodes, I'm starting to get a little bit better at how to work through them. And when the odd when the when the guest goes gets offline, I just start talking into the camera and sharing some commentary about the episode. And that's exactly what I did here today.

The Day The Army Finally Admitted It

SPEAKER_02 32:18

So you get vindicated. And this is kind of where I really wanted to go with this show because you're one of the few people that I've ever talked to that has been vindicated on anything that they were fighting. So you get vindicated. And how did that feel? Like, tell me about that day that you were notified that your claim was approved.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

So my had my attorney, I mean, he's just wonderful. I've never had to like wonder where we were in the process or what are we waiting on, or when are we gonna get an update? Um, it's never had to be that way. And so they had called him and said, hey, the board is voting on her case tomorrow. You know, we'll we'll kind of let you know what what they say, what what the outcome is pretty quickly after. And so my attorney and I had always agreed that whatever the outcome was, I didn't want to be told through an email or through a phone call. And not that he would have done that, but at work and I didn't want to be like in a client meeting or, you know, and and get up something because I would not have had self-control to not open it or whatnot. So we'd always agreed that whatever the outcome would be, and when the outcome came in, I I would come to his office and we would discuss it together. And so they had let us know on a Tuesday that they were voting on the case on a Wednesday. And of course, Wednesday came, we didn't hear anything. Thursday came, we didn't hear anything. Friday again, we didn't hear anything. And then the weekend came, and of course we didn't hear anything over the weekend. And then that Monday, I get a message from my attorney that says, Hey Lauren, are you able to come to my office today? And I just responded and said, Yes. I don't know if I'm ready, but yes. And we agreed on a time, and I said, just to be clear, you're you're asking me to come because you have the final answer right. And he said, he just said yes. Yes, yes. And I was like, okay, well, here we go. So I was sick. I was so sick that whole day. He had texted me about lunchtime, and I went over to his office around four o'clock. And so I'm just like, I know the outcome is gonna be bad. Like, there's there's no way that after everything they put me through and after everything that we've proved that they're going to, you know, approve my claim. It's just the way. And I get to his office, and I don't know that he really told anyone in his office either about it. I've become obviously not, you know, good relationship with his office. And so he's like, I didn't want anyone to hint anything. And so we get to his office, I I we sit down, and he just says, You know that when you came to my office two years ago, we always knew that this process was unfair, and the process has been unfair, and the outcome is unfair, and so I'm like, Well, I I I thought I lost, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah, I was gonna say that was the total setup for you not to get the claim of proof.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yeah, and and I think then he just hands me a paper and he says, I just want you to read it. And the paper's not very long, I have it here with me. And then, of course, I I I start reading it, and you know, it I don't know if you want me to read any other, but it just says, you know, the part that he wanted me to read was that the appeals board hereby reverses the Department of the Army's determination of the claim. The appeals board finds that Dr. Natasha Guigai and Dr. Kimberly Barrett breached the standard of care during the C-section on March 17, 2019, by severing the blood vessel ascending from the right uterine artery and failing to adequately locate repair and document the injury. This caused specialist paladini to undergo multiple follow-up procedures in March and April of 2019 to locate and stop hemorrhaging, ultimately resulting in a hysterectomy and other long-term injuries. And then it says that they award my claim. And I mean, I just I didn't expect it. And so it I almost feel like I had a delayed reaction. I I obviously like I cried, but it I didn't like ball or anything. I it wasn't what I thought I was gonna do because I just didn't expect it, and I never thought that I would ever read that or or get that uh, you know, validation that that that what happened to me is what happened to me on that day. And so we just talked it through and we just talked about the process and everything that happened, and then you know, I got in the car and I wasn't even out of his driveway before I called Mandy, who's a really good friend of mine, and we just cried on the phone together, and I went home and told my husband and then FaceTimed some family members, and I didn't sleep for a couple days because it just didn't feel like I never thought that I was going to ever receive that. And then when I did, I guess what I always or the way I describe it is like whiplash because this process has just been so up and down and up and down and up and down, and the you know, you spend so long fighting for this, right? This is what I've always fought for is the accountability and the acknowledgement of what happened, but I never thought that that's something I would get. So then when I got it, I almost don't know, I didn't know how to react. And it it I'm still, you know, I got this letter on April 30 or April 20th. I still don't know how how I feel. I'm so grateful. Like obviously, I'm I I just don't know if I have words because I just never thought that I would get that from them, especially after what they put me through for seven years.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Yeah, and it shouldn't have had to take that long. That that's the worst part, is that you were in limbo for seven years wondering what what what was going to happen instead of them doing the right thing at first.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

I actually think that that's how my attorney filed my final appeal. In the first sentence, he said, we've spent six years and $60,000 just proving that her medical records were right.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

It's crazy, absolutely crazy. And to this day, are the doctors who breached the standard of care, are they still practicing medicine?

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I mean, that's that just yeah. I mean, like I said, I I have mixed feelings about that because like I I do know mistakes happen, but the fact that there's no accountability for the cover-up of those mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

That's almost the worst part. It's like, what you know, I'm human, you're human, you made a mistake, that's fine. But you quite literally disregarded your mistake like you did not care about my life or the outcome of what that mistake was. And I think that that's almost the worst part, is not even about the mistake itself, but everything that happened after it.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

It it is hard to comprehend.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

It makes me wonder if they watch any of I mean, I think you're I I know you've done the the article in task and purpose. I know that this is your second appearance on my podcast. Yeah. I would like to think that the doctors who are involved in this case see you.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

I think they do. I've actually I have actually spoken to the civilian doctors who treated me at Cape Fair Valley. And I had a phone call with one of my guess of 2024, when this was really starting to take off, when I really started to be vocal about it, because Theresa, for four years I wasn't. I was not a Richard Sayskal. I was not in the media. I was very much like, I just want my case. I just wanted answers. That is always what I wanted was answers and accountability. And going to the media was never what I desired or wanted. I didn't not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not what I wanted. Right. But when I did, I mean, I had actually spoken to one of the civilian doctors, I actually scheduled an appointment with his office and we spoke about what had happened, and I found out through that appointment, um which didn't help me in my case necessarily because once we spoke he he lawyered up after that, but it's okay. Um but he said that he saw all my stuff on social media, and we're not friends on social media. We don't have any mutual acquaintances, so I'm sure I'm sure that everyone, good and bad, that was involved in my healthcare knows what's happened.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Yeah, yeah. Um well I I am so glad that you did get that closure.

Living After Vindication And Moral Injury

SPEAKER_02 40:43

What's what's the life like today living with this and and being and moving forward and and just processing what happened and and and I don't think like like so many traumatic events, there's no such thing as closure. Yeah, you just you just learn to live with it.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah, and I think that you know, when one, you know, once Aaron had told his team, one of his team members who I've become, you know, close with, I would suppose I would say, she wrote me and she just said, like, I'm just that she's so happy for me. And she just said, but at the end of the day, like there's no winning in this case. And I agree, like I got the vindication, I got the you know, the acknowledgement, I have it in black and white, but it still happened. My life is still forever altered and changed because it happened. Those doctors have still never apologized for it. They never will, and I I've accepted that. I mean as far as what life's like today, though, uh I don't I'm I'm honestly just figuring it out. It's so hard because I feel like for so long I was an advocate for this issue. I was an advocate and I was like in fight or flight for so many years. Like in the first four years in fight or flight healing from what happened, and then you know, another two years in fight or flight fighting for justice, not just for me, but for everyone in this process. And not that I don't want to keep fighting for change because I do, I just don't know what that looks like right now, because I think in a lot of ways I'm just trying to figure out what's next. And I guess anyone who's been through like a legal battle, whether military-related or not, would understand like it's it consumes you in so many ways. Like when you're not physically acting on it, you're thinking about it, and when you're not thinking about it, you're sleeping. You know what I mean? Like it just consumes you in so many ways that now that it's kind of done and the noise has calmed down a lot, just now starting to heal, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Yeah, I do I do understand what you're talking about. I I sort of feel that way on a much lower scale, but about serving in the military. Just that whole time I served for nearly 30 years, I was always in a fight or flight phase. I never knew what kind of boss I'd have. I never knew what the working environment would be. Because the military lacks any guardrails to hold bad leaders accountable or bad bosses accountable, you just never know what you're gonna get. Sometimes you get an amazing leader who leads from the front and by example and is competent. But then there are other times where you're you're being abused, you're being mentally abused by somebody, and there's nothing you can do about it. You just have to take it. And now that I'm not in the military and I get to choose what I do, I think that it does take some time for your nervous system to reset and to recognize the things. That triggers you. That's kind of where I'm at. Is I can see that there's still things that trigger me, even if I'm not in those environments anymore. There's still stakes on the line for the things that I'm passionate about and want to be good at. And I still have to regulate that and learn how to process the things that still trigger me. And so I think that's probably maybe where you're at with this too. There's probably still things that are coming up that's that that bring this back for you. And figuring out how you process that and let it go and work through it might be a way to describe the stage that you're at right now.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

I think it's just like I don't know if I'll ever accept it, but acknowledging that it's happened and learning to be okay with what's happened and navigating a life that's different than what I had envisioned is kind of where I'm at, is just accepting that this is I think God's plan is what He wanted for me. And even though it doesn't make sense to me, it's just how it was meant to be. So yeah, and then I mean, we didn't really touch too much on this, but I mean, even after I got this letter, the army still came for me throughout the payment process of this, and so it it still has been such a battle, and we're you know, hopefully on the out and out of all that, but I will never get what I got from DHA, I'll never get from the army, and that's another because I feel like it leads into that institutional betrayal, you know. Like that DHA hasn't even admitted what you did or what your doctor did, and you still won't or refuse to, you know. So that's been another like hard hill to to get over.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Yeah. We talk about this a lot on the stories of service podcasts, this idea of moral injury where you have the thing that happens that's bad, but then the way that the military deals with it makes it that much worse. It compounds the original hurt because instead of taking care of the problem and admitting that that a wrongdoing occurred, the the steps that they take is delay, deny, ignore. And so it then the onus is on you as the person who's been wronged to now sue, file a claim, file an IG, do all these other things, and and everything falls on you. And if you don't have the proper representation, if you don't pay for the right lawyers, or if the right lawyers won't take your case, you're alone in navigating this.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

And I I truly believe that without legal support, you will never win. It there it is almost impossible. And then the other problem with that is there's not a lot of skin in the game for attorneys. The process is long, you know, the award that the cleft attorneys get is low. And I think that that's gonna end up hurting service members because attorney, I mean, and you can't blame them. I mean, the this is it it's just sad. It's sad because this process was meant to do good, but I actually I don't know that it does what it was intended to do, and I do think it's going to get worse.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

I do too. Well, and I think that the only thing that is ever going to change this is if enough people who are serving are impacted by it to make to raise enough of a stink to where it starts to hurt recruiting.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

I feel like in a lot of ways, people have just accepted it. You know, um, you know, the army WTF page, they actually have shared my story. And if you go on that page, it talks so much about this happened to me and this happened to me, and when I was at Bragg, and when I was at Walmart, and and almost people like make a joke about it now. Like it's like, you know, like I'm Yeah, they normalize it. And like you almost have to to survive it and get through it. Yeah. So I get it, but at the same time, it's almost like people just accept that that's military health care, and I think that that's the biggest problem. You can't accept that that's okay and that this is normal, we should allow it. Yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

I I was just having a text chat earlier with some friends of mine, and we were talking about how the military will weaponize your mental health status. And the person asked me, is this something you've heard of? And I was like, heck yeah, it is. This has been going on for ages. I mean, depending on what label they give you, depends on what type of psychologist happens to see you that day and who their connections are with your chain of command, and if they want you to stay in the military or if they want to kick you out, or if they want to kick you out without benefits, or they want to kick you out with benefits. I mean, not to say there aren't good psychiatrists out there and not to say that there's a lot of great people trying to do good things, but they have free because we have no recourse, they have the ability to really screw some people up and deny TBI-related injuries. I've heard they, I mean, I've had seen cases of of where somebody is intentionally given borderline personality disorder because it's a disorder that you can't collect VA benefits on, or I've heard that. So those things do exist. And it really does fall on us to talk about them and to make them known and not to normalize them, but to say, no, wait a minute, this isn't what we should be doing. But there does also come a point to your to your point, Lauren, where you have to kind of step away from it and say, okay, I did my part, I raised my awareness on this, and now I need to take some time and to heal and to move forward with my life, be grateful for the people and the things that I do have, and and just live, live in that, and and and that's all you can do.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Right. So that's definitely where I'm at currently. I'm just trying to learn to be okay with it, learn to to not accept, you know, not accept it, but acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Right, right. And just be happy with the other things that that still give you joy, like your daughter, your husband, your family, your friends, Mandy. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yes, all the things this weekend. She was in the Army Warrior games, and I was just telling her, and this kind of goes with this, but you know, Mandy's been betrayed a lot by by the army. And she's still playing in the warrior games, supporting them, representing them. I just tell her all the time, I just I just am proud of her because there's no way. Like I want to be so far removed from the military, and she's just still so involved in supporting them. And I think it's great. I just I I admire her for that.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Yeah, I understand where that comes from. I mean, I'm the same way with a lot of my my veteran friends and the causes that I support are definitely military-themed and military-related. Because I do think that, as we kind of discussed at the beginning of the call, is that the military is a wonderful organization on many levels. And if you can integrate that and accept that there are some great things about serving and just hang on to that when you're doing those things, you can also do those things, but then still acknowledge that institutionally uh it's it's broken. I mean, the people are wonderful, the events that they provide are wonderful, the traveling and the some of the leaders are wonderful, but on an institutional level, our government is broken. But unfortunately, or or fortunately, we haven't been attacked, and we haven't had a threat that's large enough yet for the military to reform. And and that's and those are such bigger questions that we don't have control over, and that's kind of how I've learned to live with it. I just say there's nothing I can do but give my guests a voice, support the causes that bring people together, like the New York City SEAL swim or this Ryan Larkin Invitational Adventure Race that I was just a part of, and and and move forward with my life in in the most peaceful way I I possibly can. And I think that's that's the best we all can do, you know, going forward.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Gratitude Closing And Next Topic Tease

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Well, I'm I'm grateful for you giving me like the the voice to speak on the podcast and obviously share my story. And yeah, just I'm grateful that it's almost like closing a chapter in a lot of ways. And I'm very much looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Awesome. Well, I'm so honored you came back on to give us this update, Lauren. It's really important, and I think that you might not know it now, but there'll be somebody else that'll hear your voice and and hear your fight, and they'll feel heard by it. So I appreciate you doing that. I'm gonna go full screen and say goodbye to the audience, but do want to thank you so much for coming on the broadcast, and I'll meet you backstage to say goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

All right, everyone, that is a wrap. I may or may not have a podcast next week. I am in talks about the claim shark narrative. There is a guest that I've been talking with who has now challenged all the VSOs. You may have seen it. I've been sharing some reels on it to a respectful conversation about the for-profit companies who do VA claims versus the veteran service organizations fighting against their ability to do so. And I think it's a fascinating discussion. It involves the free market, it involves capitalism, it involves VSOs who may or may not have the expertise to do claims and the accreditation process. So I just can't wait to get into it. I'm working it out if I'm gonna have them on next week or not. But if I don't, then there might be a couple weeks' lag. But I will always come back at it, as you always see. So please tune in to the Story as a Service podcast. You can find me on YouTube, you can find me on wherever you listen to podcasts. And as I always do, to close out these calls, please take care of yourselves, please take care of each other, and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye bye now.