S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
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S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
Duty to Disobey: The Veterans Who Refused and Paid the Price | S.O.S. #270
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Orders are supposed to be clear, lawful, and tied to mission. So what happens when a policy feels wrong in your gut, looks shaky in the paperwork, and gets enforced with threats, segregation, and career-ending consequences?
I’m joined by Scott Lauderer, a retired Air Force reservist with 25 years of service across multiple branches, and former Army Sergeant First Class John Eugene Delarm, a combat veteran separated near retirement. We get specific about what they say unfolded during the military COVID-19 vaccine mandate: formations and “shot lines,” religious accommodation denials, repeated pressure from leadership, and the kind of retaliation that leaves troops feeling isolated and disposable. They also share why they believe protecting junior service members is part of the NCO and leader’s duty, even when the personal cost is brutal.
John walks through the EUA argument in plain terms, including the Comirnaty vs Pfizer confusion and why 10 USC 1107a matters to the right to accept or refuse an Emergency Use Authorization product. From there, we zoom out to military accountability: what courts did and didn’t address, why many veterans still chase BCMR corrections and back pay, and why reinstatement offers can feel like a fix with strings attached. We also talk about the Declaration of Military Accountability, the Forgotten Soldiers podcast, and the documentary Duty to Disobey, premiering June 30, that centers the human stories behind the mandate era.
If this conversation challenges you, share it with someone who thinks the debate is “over,” then subscribe, leave a review, and tell me: what should accountability actually look like now?
Stories of Service presents guests’ stories and opinions in their own words, reflecting their personal experiences and perspectives. While shared respectfully and authentically, the podcast does not independently verify all statements. Views expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the host, producers, government agencies, or podcast affiliates.
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Unlawful Orders And The Mandate
SPEAKER_00Do service members have an obligation to obey an unlawful order? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today, because as we see in the news, especially with the Senator Mark Kelly case, we do not have to obey unlawful orders. And that's at the heart of this issue with the military COVID mandate is were the troops given an unlawful order? And if so, why? And what has been the fallout of the issues with the COVID mandate? And here to talk to me about this are two gentlemen who on the ground with some of our most junior enlisted personnel, our officers, uh subject matter experts, they've been talking about these issues, and we're going to talk with them today. Scott and John, how are you guys doing today?
SPEAKER_04Ma'am, how are you? Thank you. I'm doing well.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much for coming to the Stories of Service Podcast, ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service, Teresa Carpenter. And to get us started, as we always do, play an intro from my father, Charlie Pickard.
SPEAKER_03From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service. Hosted by Teresa Carpenter, hear from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.
SPEAKER_00And today I will be talking to Scott Lauderra and John Dilarm, two men who have become leading voices in the movement, demanding accountability for military personnel affected by the Department of Defense COVID-19 vaccine mandate. Scott, a retired Air Force reservist with 25 years of military service, spanning the Navy, Army, Pennsylvania Air National Guard, and Air Force Reserve, has dedicated his post-service life to advocating for veterans who believe they were wrongfully punished, separated, or denied opportunities during the Mandate era. Through organizations such as the Declaration of Military Accountability and the Warriors of Conscious Movement, he has worked to amplify the stories of those who feel their rights were violated and their concerns ignored. Joining him today is former Army Sergeant First Class John Eugene Delarm, a combat veteran, jump master, and drill sergeant who served nearly 18 years before being involuntarily separated from the Army. Today we're going to talk about his retaliation after filing formal complaints and protected communications, challenging the legality of the COVID-19 vaccine mandate and related policies. And since leaving the service, he has become an outspoken advocate documenting the experience of veterans who say they have suffered discrimination, career-ending consequences, and vaccine-related injuries. We'll also be talking about the upcoming documentary, Duty to Disobey, which has its world premiere or across the country premiere on June 30th. I'm actually going to the one at the University of South Alabama. And this is a growing movement of people who came together to support accountability efforts. And inside that documentary are the deeply personal stories of service members who found themselves caught between following orders and following their conscience. So I really hope you guys tune in and really watch this show and we'll try to answer some of the same questions that I did see across my social media pages because there are still so many questions regarding this COVID mandate and so many misunderstandings of what really went on. So I'm going to start with you, Scott. Tell me a little bit about where you were born and raised, and I'll put you on full screen for this and what your pre-uh COVID journey was like, and how that was going from the military, from all these branches and all the experiences you were having, to now to having to face this just terribly difficult issue within your military career.
Scott’s Service And Breaking Point
unknownYes, ma'am.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'm in Western Pennsylvania. I was born and raised, some part of North Jersey, and then I entered the military after I graduated high school, uh, United States Navy, USS John F. Kennedy CB67. I was initially slotted as the wardroom, one of the wardroom chefs, which is for officers. And then two years in, basically became the captain chef along with other service members that were in there. There's probably about three of us. Took a break in service four years, went to culinary academies, St. Augustine Culinary and Pennsylvania Culinary, and then joined back again, Army Reserve 630th Transportation Unit out of Washington, Pennsylvania. And I was at 88 Mike 92 Gulf, which is basically tractor, trailer driver, and a chef. Did a lot of humanitarian aid for hurricane relief, tornadic activities, and floods, and then joined the International Guard, did about 12 years there as a chef, and then finished out of the last five years as a chef at the United States Air Force, 9-11th Air Force Base in Pittsburgh. Other than that, that's pretty much it. Basically, everything was going great in my career up until the last four years, which I thought actually in the beginning as a young service member in the Navy, that it was the pinnacle of my career being the captain chef on the USS Jonath Kennedy, uh serving high-end dignitaries, doing a lot of things that I never thought I would ever do as a young man. But then the COVID-19 debacle happened, and I took a stand for my airmen as an NCO. That's my duty. Try to put a stop to it, call for a timeout. No one listened basically to us. And I watched service members pretty much groveling and crying on their knees as officers and senior NCOs basically forced and coerced service members to get a biological, well, it's an unlawful order of a what we call a biological weapon.
SPEAKER_00Right. And tell me, tell me a little bit about, give me some of the examples of some of the ways that you saw yourself or anyone else who was refusing the COVID vaccine with some of the ways that they were retaliated against.
SPEAKER_04Well, basically, as I've stated in some of my stories that I've done, not only on the Forgotten Soldiers podcast, but other interviews that I've done, basically, we were all segregated. They basically set up a shot line in the hangar and documented the folks that were put through that, that went through the shot line. It almost looked like I always classify it as Auschwitz in going into a gas chamber as they showed like movies and things like that from World War II. That's what it was like. And then they basically separated everybody who submitted a religious accommodation, and then anybody that had a medical accommodation. So they knew who they were going to be going after after those folks were documented in the logbooks that had gotten it. You know what I mean? So we saw so much. I mean, I literally saw it with my own eyes. Service members or children that, well, I would say young adults that were probably my kids' age were on their hands and knees crying that they didn't want it and grabbing onto my uniform, wanted me to stop, you know what I mean, intervene, in which I did. And John and I always talk a lot about it. It's almost like as if like there's sexual assault and someone you have to intervene. I know in every branch of service we all have some sort of training where your duty is to intervene and be a bystander.
SPEAKER_00I mean, don't be a bystander, right?
SPEAKER_04Right. And in this case, that is exactly what it was, but it was in this situation, and I felt in my it was my duty to stand up as an NCO and protect my airmen, and that's what I did.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, no, I I I know that that is an incredibly difficult decision to make, especially when you have so much on the line and so much invested. And John, that that is exactly where you found yourself. I mean, you were nearing retirement when this happened to you. So tell us a little bit, John, about your story and what happened to you. You know, tell us where you're born and raised, and then a little bit about your career, just like what Scott did, and then kind of where this all culminated for you as well.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. So yeah, I was born and raised in uh Manteca, California. Yep, I joined the United States Army in December of uh 20, 2004, and you know, I was kind of uh slightly a wild kid, kind of you know, getting in trouble here and there, not too bad. So, you know, the military was a way for me to kind of change my life around and get myself right. So that's what I did. And yeah, I'm 13 Bravo Canon crew member, so we shoot artillery. I basically, my first duty station was Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Just prior to that, I went to airborne school, graduated airborne school, and then I deployed 2006, 2008, and then got back. I basically stayed at Fort Bragg for about 12 years. So, you know, jump master. I went to a uh section chief, uh gunnery sergeant, and then you know, sergeant majors like, oh, you need to go to drill school. So I ended up going drill. I went to South Carolina at Fort Jackson. I was a drill sergeant down there for three years, and then that was about 2020 when I went to Fort Bliss, Texas. So COVID had already hit, and you know, that's that's when I basically came on orders, and then I went to Texas. So it kind of locked us down for a while. Once they opened up, that's when I went to Texas, and it was right before the mandate came out. But yeah, prior to COVID, everything was great. You know, I was rolling with my career, everything was going good. You know, I was I was you know jump master. I did all my platoon sergeant. I was I was well, I was a senior drill sergeant for three years, so I was basically, you know, knocked that out, and then I was going into being a platoon sergeant, so all my platoon sergeant time would have been done, and then I would have been getting ready to get my look at for master sergeant, which would have been wonderful. So it was that it was really good until COVID hit, and then we had lockdowns, obviously. And yeah, and then you know, the mandate came out on 24 August 2021, and then like seven days later, they're already trying to get everybody vaccinated. They basically called us in and they said, Hey, we're gonna vaccinate everybody on the 31st of August 2021. And yeah, from the 24th to 31st, I'm like, there's no way they got approved vaccines and already sent them down here. This it just didn't make sense, and so yeah, they basically formed us all up and they read some sort of like memorandum or policy and said you're about to get the common artist vaccine. They literally said common artist, even though they didn't have them in the United States. And yeah, they lined everybody up just like Scott was saying, and you know, you either got your vaccine on the spot or you refused, and you start getting counseling statements and they started separating you. And then basically, you know, they threatened you with a UCMJ. You know, basically, talent soldiers are going to be homeless, we're gonna kick you out of the service, just whatever was going on. Going down the line, like after a while, soldiers that weren't vaccinated would have separate formations. They ended up having to take those nasal swabs. So we'd have to get swabbed, probably, I think it was twice a week, just to come on post and do whatever we were supposed to be doing. Before we'd go into a facility, they they did start checking individuals' like vaccine cars to check your status. They were checking our temperatures before we could even walk in the door. They used to keep us after work so they can talk to us about getting vaccinated. There was one time we went to the PA, it was like October, I think, of 22. We went to go see the PA and I asked the PA specifically because we were supposed to see the PA about hey, it's trying to get us to get vaccinated, and he was going to give us information on it and talk us into it, whatever. And so I said, Sir, I said, What's the difference between the approved common art vaccine and the Pfizer Eway vaccine? And then he looks at me and he says, Well, I don't, he's like, What's what's common art? I never heard of that. And I'm thinking, like, well, it's the approved vaccine. You don't even know what it is, but you're here to get me to get that. So, but those are some some of the problems, you know, that that we had. They just didn't know what was going on, but they were still pushing the whole safe and effective narrative.
SPEAKER_00Right, because that's what they were told to say, and that's what everybody thought. I mean, we were all this was a very, as we all remember, this was a time of great uncertainty across the country and of great fear. People were seeing in the news, especially in places like New York and Washington State, and even places overseas, we were seeing all these people that they were saying were dying of COVID. And so we were thinking, okay, this is safe and effective. And we were also thinking, like many of us, this is just another vaccine. This is just another drug. So, my question, and I'll start with you, Scott, is how did you know that this wasn't? I mean, you you and I both know we've we've done flu. I mean, we've done flu shots, we've done anthrax, we've we've had to take all these other vaccines in order to deploy or to do whatever. What made you go, mmm, there's something not right about this?
Faith, Research, And Retaliation
SPEAKER_04A good question for me, and to me, it was spiritual. And the way I want to say that is uh my story is kind of wild in itself because I go into it real quick. But my father had passed away in 2019 before all this happened. We were raised basically militarily. I'm the oldest of four, so my duty is to protect your younger siblings as well. So I was raised military, my dad was a Vietnam veteran at the time. And I guess it was just like the atmosphere. You have like a gut feeling, you sense it that something's not right, you know that they're already breaking all the UCMJ rules when the coercion and everything like that. Plus, I was kind of doing some research and which was weird because on Telegram, uh Dr. Vladimir Zelenko had popped up on my feed and started saying about what cures were out there already and how you can use vitamins and things of that nature, like vitamin C zinc and other things that were out there. I can't really remember every single detail have it wrote down. But needless to say, it was well after I stood up, it was like my mother was moving in with us, and my wife was helping get all my dad's business stuff put aside while I was at drill during that time. And I just got done standing up in front of my command for my airmen, stating and calling for a timeout to say, hey, we got to look at both sides of the coin here because I'm seeing this information here. And on top of that, the way that you guys are doing this is really, I mean, you're really breaking all the rules here, every UCMJ, from coercion to segregation and all those things. I said, and from what I'm seeing is on top of that, the attitude of my airmen who are scared, you know, crapless, are coming to me and saying, Hey, I need you, I need your help. So once I did all that and I stood up and I kind of like looked to the side and nobody else was standing except for me. The wild thing is that I had typed up all the information of what I saw, links and everything like that, and handed it right to my command right then and there. So she basically did her spiel about everybody's gonna get it. Does anyone have any questions, comments, or concerns? And I raised my hand and said, Yes, ma'am, I do. I'm calling for a timeout. And then I started handing them all the paperwork, and that was it. And I knew it was a target right then and there. Uh so, anyways, to jump back onto my story, I went and sat outside because the adrenaline in my body was flying through the roof. And my wife had just sent me a picture of my father in his military fatigue when he was in Vietnam, and it was as if he was saying to me, You do, you know, you know what you need to do. You know what I mean? Do the right thing. And from then on, it was everything was spiritual for me. They came right at me out of the gate, my submitted religious accommodation. I ended up, they wouldn't let me leave the base. So I had my son bring my laptop and I was already working on it prior to it. They wouldn't leave let me leave the base until I finished it. Well, how was I supposed to finish it if I was on the base? My only alternative to get off the base was to either get it or I contacted my son who had a military ID and brought my laptop. So I ended up finishing my religious accommodation in the chapel while my laptop was on the pew and I was sitting on the floor and sent it to the chaplain Kasky, who's the major and the chaplain on the base at the time, and submitted it there. But then when I left, which was even crazier, is that when I left the gate and everything, there was about, I would probably say an estimate from my view was 250 American citizens with signs saying, do not vaccinate our soldiers. And they had American flags draped over the overpass. So when you talk about signs and wonders, and people say, Oh, there's signs and wonders from God, this is what I was seeing as I was going through this, and it was almost as if it was like rocket fuel for me to not give up. So every time something would end, something else would happen and it would push me not to give up, whether it be you know what had transpired and everything. But it was wild for me. I submitted two IG complaints, which they swept under the rug. I submitted an EEOC complaint, they swept that under the rug. I was put, I was given a letter of reprimand, which I didn't sign. I didn't sign anything. I pretty much refused to sign. So all they did was put member refused to sign. So then it came to a point where they pushed me into the IRR, which is inactivity reserve, that's where all careers go to pretty much die. And I was actually supposed to retire in 2022. If it weren't for the COVID situation, I would have retired. And probably I was on my way for NCOA, which is E7, senior NCO Academy. So I lost that. I lost that because I stood up and everything else. So that's why you see, as a tech sergeant, that's how my career ended. It wasn't the way I wanted it to go, but that's how it happened. But I fought congressionally, and the constitutional attorneys helped me, uh, Davis Younce and Kristen Hall.
SPEAKER_00I've had Davis on my show. Yep.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they helped me out. Davis actually put me in with the Navy SEALs in February of 2022 lawsuit. Oh, good. Which was which was wild. And then I fought back before I was reinstated. It was crazy. So I was out for like 17 months, and then I was reinstated. I fought back to reinstate September of 2023, and then finished out my last six months and retired honorably April of 2024. So I fought it the whole way, even before President Trump's executive order, 141 uh4 was even flipping the radar. But they basically wrote a letter to my command and said, hey, he's he's coming back, whether you like it or not. And as I was coming back in, they wanted me to get the flu shot, and I was like, no, I'm not getting anything. So I submitted another religious accommodation, which they approved. So the COVID one they denied. The flu and everything else, they approved. And then when I was coming back into service, it was July, right on my birthdays, which is wild because it's almost similar to how John's birthday and my birthday are a month apart from each other in the same day, which is another wild thing. But, anyways, they gave me a vaccine waiver form. Well, the vaccine waiver form is dated November 24, 2021, and it has COVID on it and everything. And I would definitely love to send it over to you so you can take a look at it. But it shows it so it looks to me as if it was entrapment because it was at the height of the of the mandates, supposedly, that everyone was supposed to take, and no one was allowed a religious accommodation or medical exemption or any of those things. And yet, two years later, I'm being reinstated and I get a vaccine waiver form that has everything on it backdated November 24, 2021.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And that's wild stuff.
SPEAKER_00There's definitely some things that are going on that I don't think that we have had sufficient answers for, to say the least.
John’s Mandate Rollout And Red Flags
SPEAKER_00Now, John, your story is a little bit different because you have been fighting for now years. I think it took you over a year, even just to hear back from this latest round of efforts. And and you still really don't have the redress that you that you sought through this process. Tell us a little bit about. Well, before we get started, I just want to very quickly address the unlawful order issue because I think that that there's so much misunderstanding about that. And it's interesting because people within the community of the COVID mandate, they get it. But if you talk to people outside of it, which that's what really surprised me, like even in the Facebook comments promoting this show, I didn't understand that still people don't understand that it was an emergency use authorization and it was an EUA. So, John, you did a real I'll I'll turn this over to you anyway, John, because you did a really good explanation where you go line by line on your uh that form that you sent me. But if you could just try your best to sort of summarize it as as succinctly as you can, what made the COVID mandate in in the view of many advocates an illegal order?
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, I can do that. Let's see. So we'll start with the mandate itself. So 24 August 2021, actually, we'll back up one day, the 23 August 2021. The the common arty, which is the COVID vaccine, was approved, all right. And so just so everybody knows, if if the vial says Pfizer on it, it's an EUA product. If the vial says commonati on it, it's an approved product, right? And those two things are made in different um manufacturing processes. There's an approved process and there's an EUA process, and then the approved process is a little more stern on how they manufacture uh their products and push them out to people because it's right.
SPEAKER_00And that's also they've gone through FDA trials. That's that's my understanding. Just like any drug that goes on the market that you get from your pharmacist, that means that the FDA has approved it. And the Pfizer drug was under an emergency use authorization, whereas the Cumnardi, it was my my understanding is that it was only available overseas around the time that the COVID mandate was was instituted. So the only thing that was available to give service members was the Pfizer vaccine. That's correct.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's that's everybody in the United States. So what happened was in on 23 August, it was approved, right? We just talked about that. Well, what they didn't tell you was it was also revoked, right? And so I did a podcast, episode 62, I believe it's the edited version. All the documents are in there, but it was approved and then it was revoked. And why was it revoked? Because there was so much emergency use authorized vaccines in the United States. This is what they would literally had to do legally was take all the e-way vaccines and get rid of them. So basically burn them, however, you get rid of vaccines. That's what they would have to do. They could no longer give them the people in the United States or anywhere. So they'd have to get rid of those vaccines, and then they'd have to order the approved vaccines, get all the approved vaccines in the United States, and then they could start issuing those out. So they revoked that approval on the same day they approved it to keep the e-ways in the United States, period. And so that was all on the 23rd of August. So the 24th is when the mandate came out, 24 August 2021. General Austin put his mandate out to for service members to take the approved um COVID-19 vaccine, which was common already. And then so, which is fine. That's it, that's in its in itself, that's a legal order, unless he knew it was revoked, which he probably did. But the point is, if you go went on the CDC website, it's called the IIS, which was the immunization information system. If you go on that website and you find commerti, and then you go to the right side and you look, you start reading all the information on Common Addy, which is the only approved vaccine at the time for um uh COVID. And if you're COVID that right side and you go through it, it basically says that they're they're not the commerti vaccines are not orable at this time because they're not going to produce any of those new NDCs, which is the National Drug Code, for Commer Nadity, because and I'm just kind of paraphrasing, but because there's a bunch of e-ways already available for use in the United States, right? It literally said that, and I have the documentation where it says that I believe it's like January of 22. It says that right there, right? All the way to January 22, there's still documentation saying there's only e-way vaccines in the United States, and that's the entire United States, period. And so, with that documentation alone, okay, why is it illegal?
EUA Law And The Right To Refuse
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, let's not even talk about the Nuremberg code, right? But what we'll talk about is US Code 1107 Alpha. Okay, so US Code 1107 Alpha literally says that you cannot force a serve a service member to take an EUA product, they have a choice to accept or refuse it, and the only way that they can have a service member take make them take that product is the president in writing has to basically waive the service member's right to refuse, which did not happen. And that is why the military itself broke federal law.
SPEAKER_00That's just fascinating. So the man, the COVID vaccine that we were all given, my understanding then is that was a Pfizer vaccine. That was the EUA Pfizer vaccine. And the many of the people who who were fighting this, including you, Scott, did you know at the time as you were fighting this issue that there was this EUA issue and that just on the face of it, they were breaking a federal law saying that you can't give an experimental vaccine to service members?
SPEAKER_04I didn't know that. Now, here's the wild part. I it was all on instinct, I think, for me, and what, like I said, the atmosphere that was going on there at the time. When I started seeing how they were acting, that's when I was like, something's not right, because my whole time in military service, no one's ever been treated like this. You know what I mean? And that's what started it off for me. I was also doing research as Vladimir Zelenka was putting out more information, like HCQ and Ivermectin and all these things, and then they saw then the silencing stuff started. So I was already looking at it. I had no idea about the more technical terms, you know, that John had been doing research on. I was just going off gut instant really of what was going on.
SPEAKER_00So, John, did you bring up these issues with EUA or because I didn't I didn't understand any of this issue until I read Rob Green's book. So after I read Rob Green's book, that helped me, that filled in a lot of blanks for me about the legalities issue of this. And my question would be was there any there were the guys back in, and do you know any anything about this? There were like the guys back in the day that fought the anthrax vaccine. There has been other service members who have fought vaccines in the past. What was there ever a case that was similar to the COVID mandate, or were they all a little bit different? Does any does either one of you guys know about that?
SPEAKER_01Right, yeah. So the the the anthrax vaccine situation was basically the same as the COVID situation. So, and they're actually the pretty much the same laws. The the Eway law came from the anthrax court case.
SPEAKER_00So interesting, huh?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the service members were given it's called an IND, it's an investigational new drug, and that's what anthrax was, an IND. And so there's already a law for this IND, and this is what they were fighting. So the law was basically saying the same thing I just said with the EUA, except it's an IND, and so the actual law is US Code 1107, not 1107 alpha. It didn't exist back then, and I think that was like 20 years ago, but it was 1107, and you know, some of these service members knew it was going on, and that's why they fought that. And then when they went to court, they actually won their case, and then uh probably years later, but because of that, Congress did whatever they you know do, but they passed the law to include emergency use authorized vaccines. So that's where you got 1107 alpha is basically the same thing as uh 1107, it's just an alpha for EEWAs, so I and D's EUAs, and that's where that came from.
SPEAKER_00And emergency use just means that service members need to have informed consent, and it means that legally they can opt out of the. I mean, if they were following federal law and the president hadn't overridden the federal law, every service member should have had the right of refusal. That's pretty much what you're saying, correct, correct, John?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's what the law says. If there's an e-way product that comes out, you have well, so it kind of goes if you you have to go back into I forget what it is. It's like the FDA 564, you know, whatever it's called. But it's it basically says for the e-way product, it says because it's also in military doctrine, there's like DOD or DO, yeah, DODI 6200.02, and there's uh AR like 564. These things say like there's specific information that says if the FDA grants a right to refuse, so then yeah, I have to go back to the the documentation, like the fact sheets for actual you know the vaccine. And if you go through those fact sheets, it'll say on there, there's a question on it, it actually says it says, What if I refuse to take uh you know COVID-19 vaccine? One of the the answers to that question, because it gives you the answer, it'll say, you know, the FDA has granted a right, you know, to refuse, so you can accept refuse. So that's specifically on the the documentation for that vaccine. And then that correlates with military doctrine that says that if they if they give you that option, then it's there. And then so since that option's there, it is an EUA. Now that 1107 alpha law is now in place. Does that make sense? I see.
SPEAKER_00It does, it does. And I and I don't mean to get too technical because I do want to transition back over to your guys' experiences and your story, but I just want to make sure that I answer people's questions on this because it seems to me, I was like I said, I was surprised at the level of misunderstandings about it. And I want to transition to the Navy SEAL case because my understanding of that federal case, which Scott, I know you were a, like you said, you were one of the plaintiffs on that case. And what I want to understand about that, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm going to summarize it very quickly, is that the only thing that that federal court declared was that the religious exemption process was was was handled wrong. Like the the the people who went through that process, they were basically given a blanket denial that didn't properly follow correct procedure. But the federal court did not weigh in on the illegal order side. Am I correct or am I not correct?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was too early with the way things were going at the time because this is 2022 February. And at that time, they're already kicking out service members, you know what I mean, by the droves, or service members were leaving by the droves on top of it. So I would say definitely that it's an accurate statement.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And so at this point, and then we'll wrap this up, has there been a case in the federal courts that has brought forth the issue of the fact that the COVID vaccine may have been an unlawful order? Has that been litigated or is there current litigation pending in federal courts about that? Do either of you guys know that?
SPEAKER_04Um, I would say the militarybackpay.com situation that's dealing with service members, either the reinstated back pay or service members that have been retired, that are trying to get their back pay from when they were kicked out, so forth. I think they're working on a lot of things behind the scenes that a lot of people don't know about, other than the fact of what we sit in as far as meetings go with them, with with the lawyers and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00But but you're not aware of any pending federal litigation to get and and that that's been what has been, I mean, just that's the part that's been fascinating to me about this whole thing is like, why hasn't that been litigated? I have my own thoughts on it. Like maybe it was in you know, nefariously not litigated on purpose, because if it gets litigated and a federal judge does declare it to have been unlawful, then there's probably some other repercussions that could happen. But or and so all I can guess is that there might have been cases that have been dismissed in federal court, but I'm not aware of any ongoing litigation where they basically somebody has said, I I I oh I was, you know, ordered, I was given an unlawful order to take a vaccine and I'm gonna sue the Navy because or the whatever, whatever branch because I was given an unlawful order. So that just hasn't hasn't made its way up to the courts. It'll be interesting once this documentary comes out as I watch it, and maybe more questions will pop up about some of these issues. But back to your story, John, because we didn't really get back into that. Tell me a little bit about what the aftermath was like for you once you decided to refuse the vaccine.
Fallout After Refusing The Shot
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so like I said, the the 31st of August 2021 was the very first initial time that they were trying to vaccinate us. And you know, I have the con the concept of operation, which is a con op, and you know, they were for our brigade, they're trying to vaccinate, you know, 1,800 soldiers is what the the con op says. So these are all soldiers that didn't want to get vaccinated. Uh they held out to the very last minute until they were basically, you know, they had to put their jobs on the line or get the shot. And so a lot of individuals did. And like I said, once once we went through the line and we said no, you know, we were we had to go see our commander, do some counselings, um, you know, and then the thing is we were getting ready to go to the National Training Center in uh California for Fort Irwin. So it was August 31st, and then the next month in September, we were headed out to Fort Irwin. So their reasoning for getting us vaccinated was so we were safe during Fort Irwin for our training. And they really didn't do anything to me at this point in time because you know I was a platoon sergeant and they needed me to be a platoon sergeant, you know, down in the training center. So they basically used me as a platoon sergeant to go through the entire training center and and do you know the month or whatever down there of training. During that time down there, they had another you know vaccine opportunity. So a lot of individuals' first dose was on the 31st of August. So then I think it was what two weeks later, or whatever it is, one or three weeks or whatever it is, when we got to Fort Irwin, they were already trying to give individuals their second dose so they were fully vaccinated before we actually went into the box in training. And so again, that was my my next time. I was like, no, I'm not gonna get this. And at that time, the 31st, I didn't realize, like Scott said, it's spiritual. I didn't realize it was an EWA product that day, right? Now, the next day I did because I was I was doing a lot of reading, but that day I didn't know. And so what got me was I had already done some research, I knew a vaccine takes like 20 or you know, 10, 15 years or whatever to get safety, you know, and approved and all that. So I was like, I'm gonna be out of the military by then. So that was kind of a red flag initially when that mandate came out. And so the next thing was when we were lined up and they started reading that that document, they're like, you're about to take the common already vaccine. The battalion commander actually stopped and said, Oh, what's common already? Like, what's that? And then he kept reading. That was another flag, and then there's a DHA form 207, which is your immunization form, basically asked you a bunch of questions like, Are you pregnant? You know, when do you have you ever got sick from a vaccine? Like all the normal vaccine questions. But there's a block six on that form basically says that it says, I understand that I'm about to take an emergency use authorization product, an initial here. So it's like, well, none of this stuff makes any sense. Why are we signing that if we're not taking an EUA product? It doesn't make sense, right? And that form, by the way, was dated August of 21. Yeah, so that was another red flag. So I was getting all these red flags, and so and not to mention the 31st of August is my birthday, so I'm like, well, what's going on here, right? And then Scott's talking about spiritual, right? And so that's all part of it. But again, we went to NTC and I said no again. And by the time we got to NTC, I already knew it was an EWA product because I had already I seen I read this article from Dr. Malone, and he was talking about bait and switch and how you know it all the vaccines are EUA. Now there is no proof, he was just talking. So that's that kind of set me on. Oh, I need to find out if this is true or not. And that's where I ran into the IIS system and found out okay, this is an EU product. Um, there's no approved vaccine in the United States. Plenty of reading, plenty of research. So same process, we form up, you know, we say yes or no, they vaccine people, vaccinate individuals. I go get my counseling statement. I literally tell my commander, sir, there's no crew vaccine in the United States. These are all EU products. At this point in time, I'm getting lot numbers off vaccine cards, and then I'm I found out where I could get lot numbers and get the national drug codes, the the NDCs, for those lot numbers, and then determine whether they were EUS or approved. Every vaccine was an EUA product on every card I checked, by the way. And so I was already figuring all this stuff out. And again, during NTC, like we were there in like uh September. They didn't really mess with me, like, because I was a platoon sergeant and I had to run a platoon. And so once we got back from NTC, you know, they started up again. The command sergeant major took us over to Stout Gym on Fort Bliss, Texas, where they were giving vaccines again. And he's like, Hey, uh, you get your vaccine. No, I'm good. I had to stand outside with him and talk to him, and I literally told the command sergeant major there's no approved vaccine in the United States, it's illegal. Well, I wish you'd get your vaccine. You're a really good NCO, you'll make a good first sergeant. Like, but no, it's illegal. My gunnery sergeant went in and got his vaccine. He literally asked for documentation, paperwork, like, hey, what am I getting? I want to make sure it's approved. I don't want to get an e-way product, I want the approved product. They told him it was approved, it's all good. They gave him paperwork. He gave me all the documentation. The documentation that he got for the fact sheet, so let me explain this. The the fact sheet has all the information for the vaccine on there, right? So the current one for October of 21 would have had common art and Pfizer on it showing that there's two different vaccines. That's how the fact sheet was for that. For I think started in September. So that's how it was. But he didn't get a current fact sheet, they didn't have one, they gave him one that was a year old before the approval was even set. So the only thing on that fact sheet said Pfizer, that was it, because common already wasn't even there. I think it was like dated like December of 21, right? And it's yeah, so they didn't even give him the right information, they gave him all the old information, so you couldn't even tell there was two different vaccines. Yeah, and that's pretty pretty dirty.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy. I have all that wow, yeah. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01I have all that documentation. I have a sworn statement from him that says they gave me all this paperwork, and I have all the paperwork, and I have all the evidence. And you know what about Stout Gym is individuals, anybody that has access to post, like so veterans, family members of soldiers can go there and get their EUA vaccine, right? And that's you know, so whatever. So that was October of 22 or 21. And yeah, so after that, I think that was September, it don't matter. Um, after that, we they started talking about, you know, we gotta go see the medical provider, and I told you about the medical provider. We went in and asked him questions. He didn't even know what common already was. So I have a couple sworn statements on that of the soldiers when they talked to him, what what they talked about, and um yeah, I have a sworn
Evidence, Sworn Statements, Paper Trails
SPEAKER_01statement.
SPEAKER_00Were you guys getting organized at this time? Like, did you know Scott, or did you know Rob Green, or did you know Teresa Law?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was it was just me and myself and the few soldiers around me that I and I'm a sergeant first class, so I'm uh I'm a platoon sergeant. I've been in for you know 16, almost 17 years. And the the the people around me that were trying not to get vaccinated, they were like you know, PFCs. And I mean, they've only been in the military for a few years, you know. Right. Um, a few of them started smoking marijuana. They popped hot for drug tests because they didn't want to deal with all the the COVID crap.
SPEAKER_00And Scott, were you in the same position where you were kind of an outlier in terms of being a more senior enlisted personnel who was refusing? Like, was there an officer who was refusing? Was there anybody else around you that you could talk to?
SPEAKER_04Everything was happening so fast, uh, truth be told, like it would happen within they would change things in split seconds. So you had to be on your toes and making decisions split second to counteract what they were doing. You know what I mean? There was nobody when I stood up, I was the only one who stood up. And I peripheral vision, I looked left and right, and nobody else had stood up, and I'm like, oh damn. Like at that point in time, I'm like, oh damn, what the hell did I do? But I knew I was doing the right thing. But like I said, it's it's in that moment in time that you're making quick decisions, you're watching the atmosphere around you. You know what I mean? You're watching how people are acting towards you and others, and you're like, something's wrong. And it's just click, click, click, and they were attacked, and you have to, it's like moves, counter moves. Sure. Every time they made a move to do something, you had to be quick and counteract that and say no or do something different. But as far as other officers or anything, from what I know and what happened, and again, this is going back six years now. So a lot of people left. A lot of service members left, flat out left. I just know from my case that I fought it all the way. I wasn't gonna lay down for them. That wasn't my upbringing, that wasn't how I was raised or up or brought up, and there was no I saw that something was wrong, and I was gonna follow through with it. Once I stood up, that was the only thing I could do is finish what I started. That was it. It was you know what I mean. There was no turning back at that point. But I met, like I said, spiritual. I met so many other service members along the way that were fighting. In the beginning, it's just you. It's you fighting alone. And then as you progress through it, you start seeing others that fought, and then you start collaborating and coming together. I didn't know John or anybody else that we've met along the way. Never knew them in my service whatsoever. You know what I mean? No, no part of my military service whatsoever. But somehow we all started coming together. And that's where the DMA had come out at Declaration of Military Accountability.
SPEAKER_00So Brad Miller and Rob Green were behind the declaration of military accountability. Now, some people don't know what that is. And what it is, is it's a very, very well-written, basically think tank, thought-provoking declaration of what how the government has failed and how their rights were violated, how the rights of the people who who refused the COVID mandate were violated. And this military accountability, though, it stretches even further. My understanding, I haven't read it in a while, but it stretches even further than just the mandate. It talks about Afghanistan, I want to say. It talks about overall the lack of military accountability. It comes, it comes into some of the stuff that Stu Scheller used to talk about. And this thing was signed by a massive amount of people. And I remember it was dropped around Jan. It was dropped in January. I can't remember.
SPEAKER_04It was dropped January 1st at 4 a.m. in the morning. Yep. And then two weeks after that, the website went ballistic. There was like over 100,000 signatures that got attacked. Then it was put into congressional record by Senator Andy Biggs. So that document that's signed by 231 plus service members and American citizens is in congressional record. This is something that American the American public has knows nothing about. So the wild thing about that is that not only John has been out, but other service members like Derek and Wayne and everybody else has been out there telling the American public in different forums. Like as an example for myself, Washington County Patriots in Washington County, Pennsylvania, Butler has a right to liberty. And we did a show there live, and we were out there talking to American citizens to let them know what was going on, what actually happened. And in my opinion, it was an attack on the country, it was an attack on our military. You know what I mean? Sure. Bar none.
SPEAKER_00So absolutely. And the sad part is, and I say this all the time, is that you know, 99% of people these days don't serve. And so I think that unfortunately, we're a very niche population that sometimes just isn't afforded the same rights and protections as the American people and the things that we fight for. And there isn't a lot of advocacy around it because we've been so romanticized by the public. We they want to stand up and thank us in parades and and honor us for our service. That's great. But what about justice? What about what about having having rights? We're not going to have anyone to fight for this country if we don't protect the service members from these types of unlawful actions. And so I think this is just as important as if we really want to stand up and be counted and have a country that we can be proud of, then we need to treat our service members with that same dignity that we would want our civilian population. And I'm not even of the under of the of the mindset that mil service members should have every single protection that civilians have. I I understand that in times of war, there there's going to be differences. But then there are some things like this COVID mandate that I just I can't get my arms around for how we were able to do this for so long and to so many people. And all I can think to myself, I had a talk with my friend earlier about this today, is that maybe this was sadly a test, a test of what's to come in the future. Like if we can do this once and get away with it, can we do it again? And can we do it in a different way? And so here we are, five years later.
Accountability Efforts And The DMA
SPEAKER_00And now we have had the administration come out and say that it was uh I don't know if Pete Hagseth technically said it was unlawful. He might have. I don't know. I don't think he has. He did, he did say it was unlawful.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he has a couple times.
SPEAKER_00He has said the word unlawful.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but so he see unlawful doesn't mean illegal, it just means unlawful. So they're two different terms. If you look up the definitions, they're two different things. So unlawful is like broad. Illegal means that you actually broke a current law, right?
SPEAKER_00Unlawful doesn't mean that. So that was, I'm sure, most carefully chosen as the word to use then. And so at this at this point, that there is all this messaging around all these things that they say they are doing. And there have been people who have been reinstated, and we have even seen some people who are in the COVID mandate advocacy community, such as Adam Bashaw, who have been reinstated. And so I'm curious, and I'll turn this over to either one of you who'd like to take this question. But what is your thoughts on where you see the reinstatement efforts? Do you feel like they have been successful? Do you feel like they're trying? Do you feel like good enough? I mean, where do you feel things are?
SPEAKER_04I'll I'll go first with this. I think it's subpar. I think they're just I think maybe some people that are have been reinstated want it to happen and fight it from the inside. You know what I mean? But there's they got a clean house. There's too many not so good people, if we want to put it lightly, that are still there that are retaliating back. I think it's a good effort, but I think it should have been the other way around using our service members who submitted their Air Force BCMR or submitted documentation of those folks, high brass all the way down. Those signatures show what they did. That should be enough evidence to go ahead and start, you know, the accountability process and work its way from the top down, or vice versa. But I mean, I think the efforts are there just to show, but a lot of folks that are out there don't really think it's enough. You know what I mean? To to reestablish the trust that's been lost within that, not just from my standpoint, but from military service members' standpoint that we have interviewed.
SPEAKER_00So yes, in fact, we didn't even really talk about that. I mean, you guys have a podcast, the Forgotten Soldiers podcast. It is I've seen it also streamed on Facebook. I know it's on Rumble. And tell but but but but we'll talk about let's we'll transition to the podcast in a second. But John, I do want to get your perspective too on where you think things stand and and what more could have could be done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's let's talk about that. The so the the sec sec war is actually doing things to try, he's doing twofold. He's trying to help the reinstatement process, you know, by dangling stuff in front of soldiers that got that got kicked out. So one is you know, they're taking away the flu shots, right? They're taking away the the COVID uh mandate, right? So they're doing these things to get individuals that were kicked out to want to come back into service. So the this if you look at the way so since the COVID vaccines are still being given and the flu shots on military medical facilities, they didn't really do anything. All he did was remove it from the mandate. He didn't remove it from um, there's two things there's the mandate, and then there's a schedule, right? And the mandate means server service members have to get it. The schedule means that the military medical facilities can can keep it and they can hold it and they can inoculate people with it. And so he didn't remove it from the schedule. We know this thing, this whole thing's illegal, and we know the harms that it does, and he needs to actually push to get rid of the the COVID the best he can and take it off the mandate, take it off the schedule. But the problem with these things is everything that has been done can be reversed with a signature, so it takes a signature to bring that mandate back. So it's almost as if they're they're pulling these things back, getting us in, and then at you know, a new administration comes in.
SPEAKER_00I've never even thought of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a new administration comes in, and with you know, they sign it right back in the play, and and it's over with. The same thing with this, you know, reinstatement process. Like I like I said, I just put out my my uh podcast a little while ago about the BCMR process that I went through, right? It seems the lawsuit's gonna have better results, right? But I did mine, it took almost a year to to get my response back.
SPEAKER_00When you say lawsuit, I hate to interrupt. What do you mean by lawsuit?
SPEAKER_01The military back pay lawsuit that a lot of us are in, that Del Saran's running to get individuals their back pay and and whatever the government owes them. In this case, it would be so you never had to go back into service to get the things that they owe you. That's that's relief that they owe you for you know doing what they did wrong. And because everything that SecWar is doing, he's trying to get ahead of the lawsuit in reality.
SPEAKER_00So he'll come out and say, Okay, we're gonna, you know, you know, the what is it, the so the I just lost my train of thought, but that that we're we're gonna reinstate you, like like he's basically trying to say, Well, we'll bring you back. I I read a little bit of what you put out in your correction, and basically what they would do is that you wouldn't have any time lost in service. Like, I I think what he what they I I could be wrong about this.
SPEAKER_01So okay, so what he's trying to do is get ahead of it because he just came out and said you don't have to go back into service in order to get your back pay. Why'd he say that? Because if they don't do that, the judge is about to say, Hey, you're gonna freaking do it anyways, and then he's gonna look bad and he's gonna lose his PR with you know the citizens. Yeah, and so he has to get in front of this. So everything that he's been doing is to get in front of the lawsuit, period. It has nothing to do with anything else, and so, like I said, I just got my stuff back, and it literally said, in order to get anything that I want, or that I'm owed, actually, I need to go back into service, and then I have to serve an extra two years. Well, I should have been retired two years ago, so you know what is that, right?
SPEAKER_00And my understanding is you were at when you got involuntarily separated, how many years were you at?
SPEAKER_0117 years, 10 months.
SPEAKER_00That's okay, so almost to 18 years. My understanding is when they reinstate you, let's just say you were to go for it. If if they reinstate you, then how many years would you have in when they reinstate you? Would they put you at 22, or would they put you at oh no?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is it literally says it's so if I go back in today, they're gonna count all the time I've been out of service towards my service. So it's it's okay, you know, towards my service. Yeah, so yeah, so it's like, okay, well, why don't you just you know retire me then?
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_01I'll be at like 21 years, you know, if I go back in today, you know. But but to your point that you brought up earlier, is that but they're trying to they're trying to stronghold me into taking the money so I can give them another two years of my life because they're hurting because nobody wants to to join the military right now, right?
SPEAKER_00That's the that's also the the dirty little secret that I I find interesting is that there's so much publicity about how recruiting's never been better and and we're just we're winning the recruiting war. And I'm like, by what numbers? Like, like they don't ever give you the numbers or they compare it to something that well, if you put the goalpost wherever you want, you can always say that recruiting is better. Like if you if you it's just it's just simple math. If you say that you only need 20 people, and then the next year you say you only need 10, then you can say, Oh, we surpassed our numbers because we, you know, but you really you just lowered the the standard of of which of what you said was good. And we and we don't really understand what those numbers even are. So I I just I have a hard time believing that there's just service members, I mean that there's young people that are just lining out out the door to join. Now, now I will say from a culture standpoint, the the the emphasis on PT, the emphasis on fitness and standards or the the the PR, the PR piece on it, not not what we're actually doing, but the PR piece on it. I think we all can get behind. But I think I have a harder time understanding if the things that we're doing is the same things as what we're saying, if that makes sense. Like it is there, are we really doing the things that we say we are doing, or are we just saying the pretty things that make people want to go, yeah, yeah, the military, they're that they're on a better track now. Culture's better, yeah, yeah. I want to kill, I want to fight. Like, I just don't know if those two things are are really lining up, but I I could be wrong.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we just we we we have a meeting every now and then with with other service members and we talk to them, and and some an individual that is in service. I'm not gonna give too much information, but but he was saying that some of the individuals he's around don't even want to be in there. And we're not talking about, you know, we're talking about other officers, and and it's it's uh it's a good amount of number like they're serving, but they don't want to be serving, and that's kind of and I'm not saying that's everywhere, just sure that one particular place where he's at and what he's dealing with.
SPEAKER_00I was I was in the same position. I mean, it it wasn't like this major like turnaround just because we had a new administration. I I didn't sense any of that. I I sensed a lot of the more of the same and and just the the the same games. And I mean, I just had a talk with somebody today about how bloated and and how there are a lot of excess jobs and ex, but there and there's just not a lot of direction in a lot of bureaucratic offices. Now, there are uh parts of the military that I think run wonderfully, and I'm certainly not going to slam the whole service. I mean, there are some amazing things that they've done for me and they've probably done for all of us, but when they do things that are illegal or they do things that they need to be held accountable for, that's that's really where the veteran community needs to step up and to stand
Reinstatement, Back Pay, Trust Gap
SPEAKER_00up and to fight. And I've always said that veterans are the most well positioned to be advocates against government malfeasance. And it's partially because I believe we see things that other people don't because we serve overseas and we go into harm's way and we see firsthand what it takes to be America, and a lot of other people don't see that as as citizens. So I think as we're starting to wind down the call, um, I'll turn this over to you, Scott. What is it that you would like to see the Department of War do going, oh no, we forgot to talk about your podcast. Let's to get that, let's
Forgotten Soldiers And Duty To Disobey
SPEAKER_00talk about that. Tell us some, tell me, Scott, a little bit about how you met John and what made you guys decide to start the show and what that's been like so far.
SPEAKER_04Well, John already had it going. So he had that going before we even met and everything like that. I think it was after my episode, I was like, hey, you know what I mean, do you need any help or whatever? And we started talking, and then I would be there as like a sidekick, so to speak. So he didn't have to do it by himself. Plus, I had time to do it, and then we just started you know rolling with it together and coming up with different concepts, so we would actually have officers and enlisted. So you weren't just getting one story, you were getting four stories from two enlisted and two officers, and we had panels and things like that. So everybody got a shot to tell their story, and it wasn't mixed up like, oh, where they were told to do it. No, everything is unscripted, rock and roll. You know what I mean? The questions are asked, they're answered, and it's the truth being told. And we just started rocking in from there, and we came up with different ideas and working together. And the biggest one I think that we did was the Lance Castle podcast, which I think we worked on that with him until 3 a.m. in the morning. That was the longest one that we did, but it was so well worth it. We it even brought us together to go down to his second court martial. We saw that, yeah, in South Carolina, and we all came together. And this is what I'm saying like this isn't a spiritual thing, no matter how you look at it, because who would bring all of us together from all across the United States, you know what I mean, to where we are now, whether it be Rob Green or Brad Miller or Davis Young, all everybody's we there's so many names to name it, those people know who we're talking about, you know what I mean? To bring us all together for a purpose, for a reason, and to stand strong in it. And here we are, you know what I mean? And I would, I mean, even John came up with a not just a podcast, but he came up with the idea of writing a letter to SecWar, which we had a campaign of eight to other letters, eight to twenty letters, I would say, or or more, that were certified letters to SecWar about a was a Freedom of Information Act that was brought out by Lieutenant Billy Mosley from the Navy and showing that the in 2025 that COVID vaccines were still being administered in medical facilities on military installations. So we collaborated and and John came up with the letters, and then everyone would take a letter and we would put our own twist on it or come up with our own and then mail it certified with receipts to Sector at the Pentagon. So we've done a lot of different projects, and then we're involved, of course, with the duty to disobey. Certain um certain folks are in in the documentary, and some aren't, but we're there in spirit to help our brothers and sisters who are. So, but John, he's uh he's the powerhouse, man.
SPEAKER_00So and what I love about your show too is that it's just such a variety of guests. John, tell me a little bit about how you decide because you've got people who've been impacted by the COVID vaccine. You have, of course, people like yourself who who refused, then you have subject matter experts that come on from medical standpoint or engineering or or wherever. You've got just an interesting array of different guests that that see this. So, how how do you decide like who to have on the podcast?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I mean, there's really no decision. I mean, anybody that has a story that wants to talk about their you know journey through COVID-19 and and what happened to them, whether they're in the military, most of it's military, but you know, whether they're military or civilian, I had a few civilians on there that talked about their stories as well. I mean, anybody and everybody's welcome because you know, initially the whole entire podcast was only put together because of what happened, and we're just there to get the information out. So, you know, I don't I don't make any money off it. I just it's all free and for people to watch. So that's what it's all about. And the day, the day that COVID, you know, the mandate hit, and I knew I was gonna say no, I'm gonna refuse this. I knew I was getting kicked out of service, and I knew like I'm gonna start a podcast and try and get as much information out. And it really initially was just me like reading all my documentation that I had, um, everything I went through. I read everything, and I I showed everybody, every piece of documentation I had through all my initial podcasts because that's what it was about was getting the truth out there and showing people what happened. And then, you know, I reached out to a couple soldiers, and one of my soldiers that I had as a platoon sergeant, you know, he was like, Yeah, I'll come on your show and do a podcast with you. And that was like the beginning of that. And then I knew another one who was vaccine injured. We were in service together. He went and got his vaccine the next day. He was telling the commander, hey sir, I don't feel good. So the commander's like, Oh, yeah, you go home and get some rest. So he's driving home, he stops at a stoplight, passes out, wakes up in an ambulance, and this guy's vaccine injured since like you know, 2021, I believe, like the somewhere around the end of 2021 to this day. And yeah, he came on the show a few times. We kind of covered his face up in the beginning because he was still in service. But yeah, and then then just kind of we started reaching out to people. I did Chaplain James, vaccine injured. He was deployed. They told him, You're not gonna go back to the states until you get vaccinated, you're gonna go through a court martial, we're gonna lock you up. You don't get vaccinated. He gets vaccinated. I think it was a week or two later. He has some sort of heart complication. Now he has a pacemaker, and his story is horrible too. So then, you know, we just kept going. And like Scott said, we met each other, did a podcast with Scott, and then you know, Mark Bishaw seen my pod one of my podcasts. I was talking about my Gomar that I got, General Officer's Memorandum of Reprimand. And I was talking about the entire Gomar and showing everything I got on there and what I rebutted. And he actually I put that on social media, he got a hold of me and was like, Wow, you got a Gomar? Because he he went through a court martial uh for refute where he was. So he was like, So he met up with me and we started talking, and then he started linking me up with other people, so it just kind of grew into like you know, more individuals getting on the show and then just trying to get the information. I'm really it's really now it's just documenting people's stories and what happened to them. So we have all this proof and information. Hopefully, someday we can use and and show like this this happened, this is what happened, this is the truth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I love what you guys are doing. It's it's it's just it's grassroots, it's what I'm all about. It's veterans helping veterans, sharing their stories, making sure that this goes down in history and is remembered for for what it was a complete violation of the rights of service members. I mean, it's a travesty that it happened. Like you, I've been watching. This reinstatement efforts, and it does seem to be a lot of lip service. Like for an example, they said they were going to have a DOW task force. There's no DOW task force. I see the Army putting out some things, and I see a gentleman on LinkedIn who's a colonel who's running the Army efforts. And he he seems he seems great. And I've been told he has a very active team of five people who are just working their butts off, trying to do the best they can. I've not seen anything about the reinstatement efforts from any of the other branches. I mean, I'm not saying they're not doing anything. I'm just saying, John, to your point, it does seem like there might be people on the inside who are still maybe attached to the old administration, perhaps, who are working against the people that want to bring change. And I'm not saying any of this is easy or can happen overnight or any of those other things. I just really do feel that there were people who were responsible for this, who who unfortunately, just like with the Afghanistan withdrawal, will likely never face any kind of consequences. And again, this is a bigger issue in my opinion with the way that we elect people and just having free and fair elections and other things. But and a Congress that just won't use the budget to as a leverage point for an incentive for government for military to change. I mean, if you're not going to hold the budget over our head and say, okay, we're not going to give you this much money unless you change these things, well, then guess what? Those things will never get changed. And so that that's kind of the bigger, bigger, you know, 5,000-foot view in my opinion. But there's just unfortunately at this point, the best that we can do is continue to share our stories and do this grassroots efforts that we're doing right here on this podcast. So before we get off the podcast, is there anything extra, John? I'll start with you that you'd like to uh say to the audience before we get off the call. Anything that you would like for them to do, read up on, be familiar with, or any anything, anything else that we may have touched on that you just want to re-emphasize. Either way, the floor is yours.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I think we hit most of everything. The only thing I want to say is the duty to disobey documentary is coming out June 30th. It's playing all over the United States in different locations. So, you know, get on the computer and you know, type in duty to disobey.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, it comes right up.
SPEAKER_01Write film at the end, and then search that, and then it'll pop up, and then buy a ticket. All you got to do is type in your your city or your state and find out where it's at, click on it, and then hopefully there's one near you. If there's not, you can always order a DVD. So if it's not near you or you just don't want to leave the house, order a DVD after the showing. If you didn't pick your DVD up, they'll mail it out to you and you'll get it, and then you can watch it in your own home. That's all.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. All right. Hey, Scott, over to you for any final words.
SPEAKER_04Um, I'm just blessed to be with everybody, to know everyone that we've run into along the way and everything. And I appreciate all of your audiences' questions and everything. I hope we hit everything on there and you know, try to get the information out as best we can to them and everything. That's pretty much it. I mean, John hit the nail on the head with duty to disobey. I know that there's one, the first showing is gonna be June 10th. It's gonna be in Washington, D.C. I guess there's congressional members are gonna be there and everything like that. So we'll see how things play out from that point on. But I'm just glad that I'm gonna be, you know, hanging with John and everybody else is gonna be where we're gonna be at and helping out with that with the June 30th release. So thanks so much for everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I'll be at the June 30th release too, in in University of South Alabama. So that'll be interesting. I've got some I actually met talked to somebody today from Veterans for All Voters. He's gonna he lives in Alabama and he's gonna try to try to make it there. And then I have a couple friends that I'm gonna meet there. So I will I'll definitely share the pictures and and the and the showing. I think that'll be a really interesting event. And I'm just glad to know both of you. And uh I love what you're doing. You're you guys are you know kindred, we're kindred spirits and in in that we want to give veterans a voice or give military some service members a voice. And I think it's very important that we continue to do that. So thank you so much for coming on the Stories of Service podcast. I'm gonna go full screen while I say goodbye to the audience, but I will meet you guys backstage. Just say goodbye briefly.
Final Thanks And Goodbye
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_00All right, guys, that's a wrap. I will not be doing a podcast next week. I will be doing a bit of traveling. So I think I will be back with you guys the week after. But thank you for joining. And as I always say, please take care of yourselves, please take care of each other, and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye bye now.