Veterans Don’t Need Sympathy. They Need Community. | S.O.S. #269

Social media can make you feel surrounded and alone at the same time, and veterans often get hit hardest by that whiplash. I sit down with Jenna Carlton, a former U.S. Navy aerographer’s mate and the creator behind The Millennial Veteran, to talk about the double-edged reality of online community: it can save you on your worst day, but it can also drag you into outrage, anxiety, and burnout if you don’t set boundaries.

We get into what Jenna learned after service while studying politics and interning with the U.S. House Committee on Veterans Affairs, including how influence, ego, and access shape veteran policy. From there, we pull the camera back to the real problem many of us see every day: younger veterans trying to navigate transition with limited local connection, confusing benefits systems, and the pressure to “advocate” nonstop online. We talk about a healthier model for veteran advocacy, one rooted in empathy, coalition-building, and showing up in real places like VSOs and local meetings.

Jenna also shares the story behind her Veteran Workbook, a guided journaling tool designed to help veterans process experience, rebuild structure, and move into the next chapter with intention. Her current work as a housing navigator for homeless veterans brings the conversation into the loneliness epidemic, romance scams, and exploitation that can leave even high-income disabled veterans without stable housing. We close with hope and action, including her Women Veterans Workbook launch and what happens when women veterans create spaces where honesty is allowed.

If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who’s navigating transition, and leave a review so more veterans can find it. Where have you found real community when the internet wasn’t enough?

Stories of Service presents guests’ stories and opinions in their own words, reflecting their personal experiences and perspectives. While shared respectfully and authentically, the podcast does not independently verify all statements. Views expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the host, producers, government agencies, or podcast affiliates.

Transcript

Why Online Connection Feels Hard

SPEAKER_01 0:02

In the age of social media, it can be very difficult to find that connection. There's a double-edged sword, I always say, when it comes to community online. And that is the fact that the social media algorithms are set to outrage us, to divide us. But then at the same time, within those social media spaces, there are places where communities can come together and they can find support and understanding. So how do we, how do we, how do we work through that and really have that sense of belonging and that sense of kindness and understanding with others? Well, here to talk about that, I have Jenna Carlton. Jenna, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 0:39

I'm doing great, Teresa. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

I'm doing great. I'm so happy to host you. I've been following your work for quite a number of years. And it's just such a pleasure and such a privilege to sit down and talk about this very important issue. And for all of you who are watching, welcome to the Stories of Service Podcast. Ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service, Teresa Carpenter. And to get us started, as we always do, an intro from my father, Charlie Picker.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service. Hosted by Teresa Carpenter, hear from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Anna Jenna Carlton is a former U.S. Navy areographer's mate who served from 2013 to 2017 and has since dedicated her life to helping veterans find purpose, structure, and connection after military service. After leaving the Navy, she pursued higher education and interned with the U.S. House Committee on Veterans Affairs, hoping to influence veteran policy at the national level. But she soon realized that meaningful impact often happens much closer to home through direct connection, shared experiences, and community support. And that's where she created the Millennial Vet the Millennial Veteran in 2020, which is a very popular online platform aimed at connecting younger generations, reducing isolation, and helping service members navigate the often difficult transition out of uniform. But today we're going to talk about something that's even more deeper than just social media. And we're going to talk about the society as a whole, which is how do we bridge the gap between those online communities and real world connections? And in an era where people can build audiences, friendships, and support systems digitally, which I do think is a good thing. What is it actually to take turn? What is what will it take to take these online connections and the things that we're doing here into meaningful local relationships in our own cities and neighborhoods? And inspired by years of conversations with veterans struggling to rediscover identity and purpose after service, we share the story behind the veteran workbook, which I have right here. A practical and reflective guide designed to

Meet Jenna Carlton’s Veteran Mission

SPEAKER_01 2:55

help veterans process their experiences, rebuild structure, and move intentionally into the next life chapter. Thank you again, Jenna.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Thank you, Teresa, for having me. I really appreciate it. I've actually connected with you on LinkedIn. I think I followed you on LinkedIn even before I started my page, way back in like 2019. I don't even know if you knew this, but yes, no, I didn't. I knew of you through Adam Cole. Yeah, Adam's awesome. Out of DC. Yeah, I used to work for him uh when he had his nonprofit. And yeah, he told me to follow you.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

I had no idea. Adam's actually a previous guest as well. He came on one of my real early shows and came out to see me when we were in Norfolk together as well. And I've always loved Adam. He's got a heart for service and just a wonderfully faith-based man who always does good and and is just very inspiring. So that's that's really neat that you got to work for him.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Yes, yeah. I I wanted to save that to tell you that on the podcast because I was like, he doesn't even know I've had no idea for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

No, I have absolutely no idea. I I became acquainted with your work at the Military Influencer Conference. And it wasn't this past one, it was the one before that. And I remember thinking, wow, there's like somebody out there that is really speaking for this next generation and the work that is taking place at that level, because it's it's a lot different than I think the people like myself who are a little older who got out and and really what kind of community that you guys need versus what we what versus what we have, because we sort of bridge that gap between so a lot of us weren't on social media and then suddenly we're thrust into this world. And as you saw before this show, we still have our challenges with tech and and all these other things. And I think you guys have bridged that gap a little bit better than than we have. But I'm just so excited to talk to you and to start the conversation as I always do with a lot of my veterans. Is I ask, where were you born and

Small-Town Roots And Joining The Navy

SPEAKER_01 5:00

raised and what inspired you to join the Navy?

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Oh, cool. So I was actually born in Upper Michigan, a very, very small town. Well, upper Michigan, northern Wisconsin. I was right on the border. So Niagara, Wisconsin was where I was born. Again, I graduated with about 36 kids, and my uncle told me about how he joined the Navy. And I was like, all right, I think that sounds like a plan. Get me out of this small town. He said I could see the world in the Navy. I sure did. And also I was just, I was kind of immature as far as academics. I was not, you know, I needed some discipline in my life. Why the Navy? Probably because my uncle talked me into it. He was in the Navy. He was a torpedo man back in I think the 70s. Yeah. So he told me he was on a ship and he got to go all around the world. And I was like, I want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, I think that was also part of the reason I did the Navy as well. I just thought it would be the most adventurous in terms of travel and seeing water and you know, growing up in a place like the Midwest, where you know, surrounded by land on all sides, the beach was just this mythical place where I was like, oh my God, I can go to sea and go on a ship. This is so cool. So that was that played into the decision for myself for joining. And then once you were in, did you know you wanted to work in meteorology? Was that something that was called? No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

No, I kind of landed on that and it was really lucky because I was I wanted to go into intelligence and I was all set up to go. And I actually got in trouble. Like I said, I was very undisciplined as a senior high schooler, and I got in trouble for drinking. So they actually took away that contract from me and they placed me and said that I could do they said an AGs opened up and I was like, Yeah, I'll take anything. I just I'm so glad I'm still able to join. I thought they were gonna kick me out or like set me out of the debt program. So yeah, and it I lucked out. It it's a really good job. You know, when I saw what other people were doing on the flight deck, I was like, I love being in this air conditioned office.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah. Oh yeah. And I mean, it's a it's also a hard job though, too. I mean, the AGs, they never stop, they're always on call. They are the ones who at the beginning of any of our operational briefings pretty much set the stage for like how the rest of the the discussion is gonna go because whatever you guys say is gonna determine how the ops will be be put out. So I I totally understand that. And what was it that kind of kept you how many years were you in?

SPEAKER_02 7:47

I did four years.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Okay. Did you know that you would just do the four, or did you think that you would stay longer?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Or I I really I knew I don't know. I think I would have, you know, I went back and forth really on that fourth year so many times. I was gonna have to go to a C school, which was eight months, and I just did not like school. I was like, and I I didn't I wasn't really passionate about weather. It was a cool job to learn, but I yeah, I eventually I was like, I'm gonna get out.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, and you've also spoken very publicly and task and purpose about some of the struggles that you also faced while serving in the military. And I I really applaud you for that because there's a lot of people who have a really hard time talking about that stuff. And it's it's sometimes sadly, it's a part of our lives and it happens. And I I feel anyway that we we need to we need to give voice to it and we need to be able to share about it so people understand that that's sometimes part of the experiences.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Yeah, thank you so much for your support on that because I was so nervous when I published that and also just worried about the feedback I would get. I mean, and you know it I really got a lot of support, especially from the women veteran community.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yeah, and and I'll and I'll tell you, it's it's it's a it's a it's a crappy issue. I always say that it doesn't matter which side you are on in terms of it because there's not a good due process system. So for a lot of people out there, they they just don't have the support that they need to to to to work through it and to hold people accountable, no matter, no matter what the story is. And unfortunately, it it's just it is one of those things that I really hope going forward the military really gets a better grip on because it we're we're losing good people because of because of these cases. And and I just think that's unfortunate. And when you see somebody not being held accountable for their actions, then

Speaking Publicly About Military Harm

SPEAKER_01 9:50

it makes you also not want to not want to give your all. So I I appreciate the fact that you wrote about it. And uh I I have to be honest with you too. I was worried that you might not want to come on my show because I've also covered the other side, as you know, with men who I believe the ones who I've researched uh who may have been falsely accused or who I think have been. And so it's it's a tough situation to navigate for for anyone on on either side of that issue. So I I thank you for the your courage and coming on and talking about this because I I definitely want to be on the side of due process and justice and and holding holding abusers accountable wherever those abusers are. So absolutely that's a really important part of this. What made you when you were starting to write about some of these issues, was that that you're when you served on the house as a veteran? Was that sort of what with when the time that you decided to do that?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

No, it was probably the year after that was, you know, kind of my exposure and where I found the power in being a veteran and just the the door that it opened by saying I was a veteran. Because I think before then I was just, you know, around college students, they looked at me like I was crazy. They're like, what do you mean? Like, like that was just such a foreign idea to them. So when I was at the house and everyone, when they walked into the office, they would say, Here's our intern, she's a veteran. And I was like, Wow, you know, like they they just placed importance on it. I would answer the phone, and you know, these Vietnam veterans calling for help would say, I don't want to talk to anyone. I would they would say, put Jenna on because she's a veteran and she gets it. And I was like, I served a totally different time than you, but just the fact that I was willing to serve my country, you know, created that bond with us and that trust automatically. So I really I found that the importance of it. And I think during, you know, 2020, we all had that reflection time of COVID. And I've always been a writer. So I I wanted to express it that way. And I finally got the courage to share that as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah. Well, I applaud you to do for doing that. What made you decide to go work with work work on Congress? Like how did how did that opportunity come about?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Again, it was kind of by happenstance. I was I wanted to be, I was studying political science, and I saw a program that was you could do an internship on the hill. And I was kind of brainstorming with my advisor, and he was like, You're a veteran? Like, why don't you do something? You know, why don't you work for a veteran congresswoman or congressman? And I was like, Yeah, I am a veteran. Like I didn't even realize that was a thing in politics. And yeah, wow, is my world opened.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Well, what do you think was the most surprising thing you learned while while you were while you were on that committee?

SPEAKER_02 12:41

I I learned a lot about ego. I learned a lot about how things are pushed through, whose voices matter and why they matter, not because of the significance of their story, but the power they have behind them. Yeah, I I think I learned a lot.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a definitely I'm I feel the same way learning through my grad grad school program. A lot of the things that I'm learning with elections and and other things,

Lessons From Congress And Veteran Policy

SPEAKER_01 13:10

it it definitely opens your eyes to the system and and really where fairness lies and where it sometimes doesn't lie. And I think that as veterans, uh, we ought to be involved in the policies that are impacting our community. And I think that can be done in a way that's mature, that's respectful, that is done without this outrage that social media sometimes pushes or the algorithms push. It has to just be done in a way that's that's kind and that's done with empathy on on on either side of an issue. And sometimes people uh have, I think, a tough time doing that. And I and that's one of the things I really seek to do with my social media pages is to model that type of decorum because I think that it's just so important for us to get back to that, even if it doesn't get you as many clicks or as whatever, it it it's it's the more important way of talking about these issues.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yes, yeah, and I feel like so much of that outrage puts a lot of pressure on veterans saying, you know, veterans, you need to do this. I I made a post that said just that, and I was like, it's exhausting, you know, like we're we're doing enough, and then to like put this pressure of like you're gonna lose your benefits if you don't do this. And it's like it is, it it really is. It advocacy, as you know, it it can be burnout. And I those extra pressures just really it hurts the veteran community.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

It does, it really does. It's it it there is there is definitely a way to go about doing it and to be a good veteran advocate, but then not alienate people and and build coalition and build community. It's one of the reasons why I so admire my buddy Rob Sweetman, Bill Brown, and some of the guys that I've been helping with some of their nonprofit work because they really do just bring people together and they have an ethos that is so inclusive and is so principally driven. And and I really appreciate that. And it's something that I I can take a lot of guidance and and and learn from. What was the motivation for you to start and transition into building an online community for veterans? Like where why did you decide to do that instead of just joining an existing community?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah, I I saw, you know, another thing I learned from being at the House of Representatives is like, where's the representation for the youngest group of veterans that are also statistically have the highest suicide rate, ages 18 to 35? And I was like, we're not showing up in places, we're we're not represented in these places either. So I just reached out to two of my Navy friends and I said, I'm gonna start a Facebook group, you know, really real grassroots, add add your people you served with, you know, go through your friends list. And we both did. And then, you know, people started adding their own and we started conversations, you know, just just sharing, you know, our own experiences and asking a lot of questions, like, how are you dealing with the GI Bill? Are you guys getting a hold of your VRE counselors? How did you start using VA Medical? Those basic questions. And it was just amazing how how much I have learned from others and you know, how others have felt comfortable sharing their own experiences and resources.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Well, you you run such a good group, such a respectful group. And what I love about your page is is the fact that you were also very inquisitive. It isn't like, hey, look at me, I'm doing all these things. It's hey, what have you done today as as a as some sort of self-care? Share, share some of those things. You're just you're very discussing discussion driven. And I'm curious, did you have any kind of training and counseling or something along those lines? Because I thought that as I as I started watching your your your stuff. I thought, man, she's such a good like healer, like so calm. You have such a calming energy about you. You really do.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

That's a huge compliment. Thank you. I I I swear my superpower is if it's anything, it's asking questions. And that's how I like the group. You know, that's how I I get into late-night conversations with my friends. Just just being curious, you know, and and especially about veterans. And I've noticed that, you know, when you ask people questions, it it opens up so many, so much room. And then I also think about, you know, their their normal day lives, like how they probably aren't having as many people ask questions. So, you know, it it is, it's a really intimate thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I I thought maybe you had some kind of background in in counseling or therapy or

Creating The Millennial Veteran Community

SPEAKER_01 17:55

or something along those lines, because it you definitely take a different approach to to these channels that that I see than than what I see in in some of the other uh veteran-focused content. And I and I really appreciate that. And you not only do that with the Facebook group, you do that also even with the stuff that you're promoting on your Instagram, which is is just it's a really you have a very large following, and it's it's really impressive. It it really is to see what you're doing with that. What is kind of your sort of your goal with a lot of this? Like what if you had to say like where you want this to lead? Do you have do you have a vision or are you just kind of going down the road and seeing where it takes you?

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Yes, yeah. I said I would give this five years, and then I could, you know, delete my account if I wanted to, but I had to give it my all for five years. And trust me, there's so many times. As you know, you're probably you've had those moments really. Oh, I do. I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

I'm like, I ain't why am I dealing with you know the amount of hate comments I've gotten? And last year when I lost my job and everything, I was so done with it. It was so bad for my mental health. But I'm glad I kept at it. I could I'm glad I kept showing up because I I I do get those messages that are like, hey, I I see your page and I feel seen, or hey, you help me reach out and and get help. You know, those those messages make all the difference. And I think my goal really, you know, I I don't want to start a nonprofit. I don't want to start another organization. I really want to educate those organizations and and I really just want to shift the culture in the veteran community for the better. And I think it's our duty as our generation to continue that path that the Vietnam veterans, you know, World War II, all of those veterans have paved for us to keep our resources, you know, have the GI Bill, everything we have. And I swear, if we just coast and say, hey, you know, we get all these benefits and we're not out there, you know, showing up, it's it's a disservice to to those who have come before us.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

We're we're we're gonna lose the things that they fought for. And I think that there are times when we veterans really do have to rally. A most recent time was when the VA quietly tried to announce on a Thursday or a Friday, over I think it was a holiday weekend, even, that they were going to now say, if you are on medication, we are going to judge your VA ratings by how well you perform on these particular issues while on medication. I you may remember what I'm talking about. It was just a few months ago. And they tried to do it like in a way that, like, no announcement, no nothing. I still to this day I'm like, what was their intent with all that? And the VSOs couldn't get really riled up until the following Monday, because that was when, of course, they can work with each other and come up with a unified voice and all those things. But man, if I I saw the veteran community really come out in spades on that. I mean, just tons of videos and tons of education, and I was really impressed because everybody was kind of saying the same thing. Like, you're gonna tell me that I now have to be on a drug, and if I'm on that drug and I get better with that drug, you're now gonna reduce my rating. I mean, it was just a slap in the face when I when I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, insanity. That was a rough weekend. I remember so many people reaching out in the group or you know, my veteran friends texting me with so much anxiety, and that's what I was saying. I was like, that's why we we do need those big VSOs because they fight tooth and nail in Congress, you know, they show up. So to see like, you know, the VFW or the American Legion show up, like I show up there and I'm the youngest one. I'm like, we need these, they fight for us. And we need to pour into them.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think it's just really important that we stay, we stay united and we stay, even if we don't agree on issues. Like I always say, like, I don't expect people to agree with my positions on everything. In fact, I would think it was a pretty boring world if everybody agreed with me on everything. I don't want that. But I always think that you've just got to be kind and you have to do disagree in a way that's not personally attacking one another. And I think that's something that we all need to take around turn on because unfortunately, social media exasperates these divides that people have instead of uh, and I do blame the big tech companies for this. I don't necessarily blame us, I blame the big tech companies for exact for using outrage as a way to get clicks and to keep us on these pages. And that's where the double-edged sword of social media comes in. So, as a as a person that uses social media, how do you find that peace and that balance between not letting it get to you and not letting the hate that those people are being triggered into being? I mean, because basically that's what it is. The social media algorithms trigger them into just amplifying and amplifying. And how do how do you take take that time for yourself and walk and kind of step away from all

Boundaries With Social Media And Hate

SPEAKER_01 23:20

that?

SPEAKER_02 23:21

That's a great question. And that and that's hard because it changes all the time. But I've really set my boundaries with social media. I would say when I first started out, I would let everything get to me, every negative message, every negative comment, eat at me. And now, you know, I I really have had a good routine. I've been in therapy and and just remind myself of what truly matters. And as you know, the online community is not the in-person community, especially in the veteran world. Like, you know, you show up to your local meeting, whatever DAV meeting, you're gonna have opposing people from both sides and they can come together and share a meal, you know, and it's not this like, oh, they go here, so I can't go there. It's not like that at all. It's like we all have our differences and we respect those boundaries and you know, maybe not get into those topics, but what comes first is the veteran, and we can all agree on that.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah, that's a great point. And I think that's something that is it gets that gets lost with the with the social media crowd is that these are the same people that if you saw them at a meeting or you saw them in person, you guys would be getting along.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Yes, yes, that's what I was thinking. I was like, you're a woman veteran, you know, maybe we wouldn't agree on everything, but we have so much more in common, you know, and and you deeply care about the same issues.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

So yeah, yeah. No, I I absolutely agree with you. And I think that it's also one of the reasons why I think that veterans really all have to be or try try to be as involved in their communities as possible. Have you heard of ways or ways that veterans who are now transitioned in the civilian world that they're making a difference at the local level and how they're going about that?

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Yes, I I have seen a few out there, whether it's you know, being on the their school board, um, you know, in local politics, or you know, trying to re-ignite their old legion posts and you know, starting it from the bottom, or even just being a part of you know, a current VSO and trying to make changes and more inclusive for younger veterans or, you know, even more family-friendly places. So I have seen that a lot and it it is so inspiring. And you know, these people aren't gonna be on the front page of social media, you're not gonna see their stories except for maybe in comments of Facebook groups, and they're they're inspiring people, they really are. And if you go on person, you're gonna see these people too, and it's gonna show you that you can do it as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Absolutely. I agree. So, what inspired you to write the veteran workbook? How did this even get

The Veteran Workbook And Guided Journaling

SPEAKER_01 26:10

to be a thing? How did you start to write this? And and what what what did you what made you decide to do it?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

So I've always been into journaling. It's gotten me through my childhood, through boot camp, through deployment. It's been a study in my life, something I practice every, you know, a few nights a week as well. And I know it journaling's intimidating. Like people say, oh, my therapist told me to do that. And it's like you look at this blank page and you're so intimidated. And I was like, you know, I said my superpower is asking questions. So why don't I put all these questions that I'm always asking on podcasts that I'm always asking in the Facebook group and put it all together in a book so I can have this conversation with every single veteran and let them flip through it. You know, not every chapter is gonna be something everyone needs, but there's something that everyone needs inside there.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

So that's exciting. I think it's great. I mean, some of the sections in here I I just really love. Um, I love the what was the one that I was beware of destination addiction. I think that one I could really relate to because I'm like, I always like I have that next goal, that next thing I'm chasing. And then it's like, oh and you wrote about it. It's basically like you get it, and then it's like, well, what's next? And you really just have to like look at it like it's the journey that that is is is what matters and and the the the steps you take to get to the goal. And then when you get another goal, it's it's it's what did I want to learn out of this experience? Like what I took this goal on, and what am I wanting to do to better myself or better my community by taking on this project? I mean, that's how I have that's how I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yes, yeah, yeah. I wanted, you know, just a tool that I could share with as many people. I I published it on Amazon for ten dollars. It's very accessible. I would I still give out a free copy of the PDF to anyone who wants it because I I just think it's important. Try it, you know, it might work for you.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah. So now you're working

Housing Navigation For Homeless Veterans

SPEAKER_01 28:20

with homeless veterans. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Yes, yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

So so what's what is that, what is your job like duties? Like what is exactly uh is your role?

SPEAKER_02 28:31

So I'm a housing navigator. I really, you know, help the veteran advocate for the veteran with landlords. And you know, a lot of a lot of the veterans I get either have bad credit, have uh evictions, you know, they got rough records. So I I talk to the landlord, I build, I build relationships with different landlords and you know, talk to them about giving a chance to this veteran. And you know, they have support or hey, they're in a program now, or they're you know, they're at a rehab, whatever their situation may be. And and it it is it is a very emotionally demanding job because it sounds like it. Half the day I am just on the phone with with veterans who are in a lot, some of them are in impossible situations, and I have to remind myself that I can't save everyone. And and sometimes they really they don't want me to fix their problems, but they they just have no one else to talk to, so I really do.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

We're we're dealing with a loneliness epidemic, and it's not just the military. I believe there are people all over the world who don't feel that they've connected with someone, and it always hits home for me when I get the notes, and I'm sure you get it too, Jenna, as a creator, from the people who've been romance scammed. That one just really gets me. Yes, it's just so sad. And I know that I'm talking to somebody that is already probably has some sometimes some mental health challenges, and then they have now been taken advantage of by somebody, and then they want to build a a relationship with me. I don't know if you've had that happen, and and you don't really know what to do or how to how to have that boundary because it's like yeah, but at the same time, your your heart goes out to these people because you know that a lot of times they're elderly or they're lonely or they they're not social media savvy, yeah, and it's just it's such a dirty and despicable crime.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Oh, I I see it in person. I have many veterans who are 100% disabled on my caseload. I know what they get per month, and so does the the woman, or you know, sometimes it's even their own children who are taking advantage of them. And my job is to just house them and and they're right in my face, you know. I I can see they're taking advantage of their elderly boyfriend or whatever. It's really hard. It is, and it's like even though they make, you know, what $5,000 a month or whatever, being 100% disabled, they're still homeless because someone is taking all their money and there's nothing I can do about it.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

And the thing is, is that this is this kind of goes back to the loneliness epidemic because I find with like the romance scammers, a lot of times it's somebody who hasn't ever had a lot of relationships, they don't have a lot of experience with dating or with the internet or or whatever, or they're a lot of times they're from another country and they don't really understand the military. So whatever someone has told them about me and my picture, they've clatched onto. And it's just every time I get these cases and I get contacted. I mean, there were times I was getting contacted a couple times a week from people. Sometimes it's someone's daughter or like somebody from the family who reaches out and says, you know, my father's been communicating with somebody, and they think but we think that it's a scam. Can you just write us back and let us know that it's that you've been scammed? And I do. I always write them back and say, I'm so sorry, but yeah, it's it's not me. And it it but it it underscores my my point that I brought up at the top of the conversation, which is you know, what do we do to cure this epidemic of loneliness and bring community? Because I really believe

Loneliness, Romance Scams, And Exploitation

SPEAKER_01 32:40

that this is a lot worse than people think it is, and social media and and the algorithms and the outrage and other things, those just kind of exasperate the the problem instead of us really learning how to come together. And so, what what kind of advice would you give to veterans who are lonely and they're seeking that connection?

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah, I I think that's hard because you know, some veterans are not mobile, you know, they're they're disabled, they're not able to leave their home, you know, they're they don't have transportation. I also know of rural veterans who are, you know, not not around society, you know, they could live a few miles out out of town. So that in-person connection is rare and it it is easy to get that online, even though it can be dangerous online. So it's hard. And then, you know, a lot of times I wonder where where is your family, you know, you know, where where are your loved ones? And a lot of them are estranged from their family, you know, from mental health episodes or or drug use, you know, something where they had to family cut them off. I I I I wish I had an answer for this, but I really don't it's tough. I really don't, it's really tough.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

I mean, one of the things that I did when I was at my lowest, and I've I've talked about this before, because I went through periods in my life where I didn't have a partner and I had my career, but that was it. I I didn't have a lot of friends. I was many times moving from city to city and traveling with the Navy, and it was just so isolating. And I would go to these anonymous groups, like I would go to Codependency Anonymous, I would go to Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. I mean, it started off with Alcoholics Anonymous, and at the time I didn't really even understand how much of a drinking problem I had. But yeah, yeah, I did. I used alcohol as a crutch off and on for a lot of my adult life. I'd go years without it, and then I would start to drink, and it would become this habit. And it was never like the these crazy stories that you hear about, these rock bottom just hoard, but it was just this thing that I felt like I had to do, especially when I was in a group settings and I wasn't feeling comfortable. And I finally, about two years ago, two years ago, I said, I can never drink again. It's it's this is something that is not healthy. It's it's just it's bad for my body. And I started to really internalize that. And once I had internalized how bad it was for my health, and I knew I was depending on it in a way that was unhealthy. So I made the choice that it's just something I don't, I don't want to be, I don't, I mean, I'm okay being around other people who do it. I don't care. I mean, I don't judge either because not everyone has the addiction that I did. But for me, it just wasn't, it wasn't something that's healthy. And so being able to be around others who had that same experience, I found, I found to be really helpful. So I think that's one of the ways, but it is tough. It it really is for for I think people to find that sense of community and that sense of belonging. What has been some of the ways that you have seen veterans help other veterans on the online space that some of the success stories that you've seen?

SPEAKER_02 36:06

I I've seen, you know, sometimes I'll

Realistic Ways To Find Belonging

SPEAKER_02 36:10

get referrals, you know, that's what I call them of like a parent or someone saying, like, hey, my son got out. I don't know what to do. They don't want to talk to me. And, you know, I've just casually gone into their DMs and said, hey, I'm giving out free workbooks to veterans. I'd love to send you one. And I'd get their address and send them a workbook. And this one stood out to me because a few months later, you know, I, oh, and then I invite them to join the Facebook group. And this individual joined. And then a few months later, another veteran was reaching out for help in the Facebook group. And then I saw this particular person that I reached out to and sent the workbook comment saying, you know, hey, it's a rough time, but you're gonna find your way to get through it. I'm still figuring it out. But, you know, I found this, this, and this that have really helped me. And, you know, that that just made me like so happy to see someone, you know, that was in a dark place and now they're, you know, found that purpose of helping others and wanting to reach out. So I just thought that was so cool.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

That's awesome. That's awesome. That's like where you see, like where that person has has paid it forward and has done their duty to pass on what guidance and what support that they've had. And that's always a very beautiful thing when that happens. So, no, I I think that's absolutely amazing. So, you have another book that you're working on right now, too. Tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Yes. So, the women veterans workbook is going to be a workbook focused on women veterans. And why did I think that this needed to exist? Because the past two years I ran a women veterans morale group locally. And I, you know, I just moved to New Jersey and I just I found my people. I found these incredible women that just took me under their arm and we would meet up for coffee. You know, we had so many deep conversations. And again, I noticed things that we we would talk about a lot, you know, like, you know, I feel like I really emasculate my husband or, you know, the men around me, and I want to work on being more softer, or I'm sick of always being the strong one. I feel like I have to be the strong one in my family or in my friend group, or you know, it's hard for me to be vulnerable. This is one of the few spaces in women veterans group where I can open up and and you know, share these things. So I just think it's magic when women veterans get together and I wanted to bottle up those conversations and talk about them deeply and and just you know, ask those tough questions of you know, all of those things that we took from being in the military, like, you know, being a woman in the military, you're constantly questioned, oh, did she get that off of merit, or did she get that because, you know, she's a woman, you know, those type of things, and just kind of look back on our service and you know, take the good and leave the bad.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

How did you know how to form this? I mean, how did you did you just put something out on like out on Facebook? How did you find the people in your community, other other women veterans?

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Yeah, so I I was a part of this group in Maryland, and then I I was told them I was moving.

Women Veterans Groups And A New Workbook

SPEAKER_02 39:30

They wanted me to take over the group there, and I was like, I'm going to Jersey. They're like, why don't you start one in Jersey? So I started a Facebook group called Women Veterans of South Jersey, and I I posted it in the North. There's a Women Veterans of North Jersey, and I reached out to that admin, and she was incredible. She was like, Oh, this is so cool! Like, we really need more in South Jersey. So I'm so happy to share this. And you know, slowly I had people joining and you know, getting on the phone. It that's so cool, and just like I I still run it, and it it's it's really cool to see all the connections made and continuing.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Yeah, and I mean that's something that I think anybody can do. Anybody can start a Facebook group, and and I mean, I think that's really where you see a lot of veterans getting together. I've I've done something somewhat similar with a book club I I've started here, and it's still still very small, and you know, just trying to try to take off, but I I love to read and I love talking about military issues and topics and things of importance to our community. So very, very, very thankful for the Ocean Springs Public Library who agreed to host the book club. And yeah, we I really enjoy it. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

You're down in Mississippi, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, ocean Springs.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

That was my first station at Keysler. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Keysler Ocean Springs.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Oh, yeah, and you know the Gulf Coast. I mean, a lot of people think that Mississippi is this terrible place, and I'm like, have you have you been to the Gulf? Have you really pretty? It's really, really nice and really pretty, but I do like the fact that there aren't that many people here, so yeah, yeah. The people are nice. Yeah, it's a wonderful place to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

We're right between Pensacola and New Orleans, you know, fun little destination places if you want a weekend getaway or destined, you know, it's all right there.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Everything's right there, and the weather is is just gorgeous, and yeah, so it's it's a really nice place to be, and the people are very good here, very, very nice people. In fact, I just went to a an event with the chamber tonight. So they yeah, so they had they they have a wonderful business community. Yeah, just can't say enough good things about about ocean springs, and very, very glad that this is where we we ended up settling. So, but as we kind of start to wrap up the call, I I want to also just give you an opportunity, Jenna, to tell our audience anything else you have going on or anything that you think that maybe others might be interested in learning more about.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Yes, thank you. I have on June 12th, which is Women Veterans Recognition Day, I am launching the Women Veterans Workbook. And I went on a limb and I got a venue, and I said I'm gonna have a party, and that's that's what I'm doing. You know, I really I have experience with small events, but so if you're local to South Jersey, I'd love to have you there. All are welcome. You know, you don't even have many non-veterans coming, so you know it it takes a village. Veterans cannot exist in a vacuum. You know, there's there's great times to have veteran spaces, but you know, we we also really rely on the support from from the entire community.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

So well, I'm excited. I I hope that you have an amazing turnout. I don't know how close you are to New York City from where you are in South Jersey, but I will be coming your way either the well, the end of July for the New York City SEAL swim. I don't know if you know anything about that.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Wait, were your ears ringing this morning? Because I was talking to you about someone about that swim.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Yes, yes. In fact, she wrote me Carly. Yes, she she wrote me and said, I think I was talking to somebody you're gonna have on your podcast later tonight. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm gonna have Jenna. But yes, yeah, Carly's helping my buddy Rob with the ruck walk. So we're doing that next month, and then we have the qualifier. Bill Brown's doing two of them. I'm doing I'm gonna go to his July qualifier and see if I qualify. I'm I'm very realistic and I'm pragmatic. And so I would like to think I'll qualify, but we'll see what happens uh late July. But either way, I I'm supporting these guys. Like I was saying earlier, they're they're really showing me a lot about community and and how to build coalitions and just the way that they go about things. Like I said, they're very principly minded. And yeah, I can't wait to meet Carly. I'm excited to meet her.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

She mentioned the seal swim and I was like, oh, I know someone who's training

Upcoming Launch, Events, And Closing

SPEAKER_02 44:05

for it. Because I've been seeing you post about training. I think that's so I think that's so badass. Like, you know, that's so cool to just go after that. And I I can imagine it's hours and hours of training.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Well, and it's also because I've just never done freestyle for any long distances. I I I'm a very good swimmer. I can swim well on my back. I can I can stay in the water for as long as you want me to stay in the water, but to be fast is another story. And and then to also practice in open ocean. So I I'm definitely somebody who likes to challenge myself. And like you said, I think it is about the destination and about what you learn along the way. And then and and if I don't get it, then I'm gonna learn what I did wrong or what I could have done better. And I'll come back again and try again. But I really support what these guys are doing, and I think it's a wonderful way to show love of country, a wonderful way to come together with other motivated veterans. So I hope I hope you can come see it. It'll be the actual SHIELSWIM is in August. I believe it's August 19th, if I'm not mistaken. And I hope that you can you can make it out there because I I think it's really it's it's an amazing event. I mean, I got emotional as a volunteer just watching it. It was it's it's it's really outstanding and well put together and just a way to to really show show show pride in being in the military, pride in being a first. I mean, there's first responders who do it, there's other other patriots who are doing it. It's it's not just military. So it's it's a real real great event. But yeah, definitely. I'm excited for your launch. I think it's gonna go outstanding. I know your book is gonna do incredible, and I just think you have such a servant heart, and I'm I'm so honored that you took some time to come on the podcast and tell us a little bit about what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Absolutely, thank you so much for having me. I I really appreciate this conversation, it was great.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Awesome. All right, well, I'll meet you backstage. I'll go full screen to say goodbye to the audience, but just give me one second. Thank you, Jenna. All right, guys, that is a wrap. Thank you so much for joining me. I know it has been a little bit since I've been on the podcast, did have some travel last week. I do believe I have a few more shows coming up and then another break, but I'll be off and on. As I was telling Jenna, I do have a few trips coming up these next couple months. But as I always do to close out these calls, please take care of yourselves. Please take care of each other and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye bye now.