S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
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S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
From Trauma to Power: How an Infantry Officer Rebuilt Her Mind and Body | Riley A. Gruppo S.O.S. #261
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The loudest arguments about women in combat usually skip the only thing that matters: what it looks like on the ground when you are the one carrying the ruck, enforcing standards, and trying to stay safe inside a broken system. I’m joined by Riley Grupo, an Army officer who served in an infantry role and isn’t afraid to answer the question everyone dodges, “Were the standards lowered?” From the grenade toss to night missions on little sleep, Riley explains what was hard, what was fair, and where the pressure actually comes from.
We also go where most conversations stop. Riley shares what she faced before formal infantry qualification training, including harassment and assault, and we talk about how leadership and accountability either protect people or quietly reward the worst behavior. Then we dig into the practical side of combat arms integration that affects readiness for everyone: plate carriers and rucks that do not fit, preventable injuries, and the lack of transparent long-term data. If you care about military standards, women in the infantry, combat arms readiness, and real solutions beyond politics, this is the nuanced middle-ground discussion we keep asking for.
The second half shifts toward healing and rebuilding after service. Riley opens up about a recent traumatic brain injury discovery, how symptoms can overlap with PTSD, and a skiing and snowboarding program that produced measurable improvements in days. We close with what she’s building now, The Standard, a mind body mission framework for veterans, leaders, and high performers who want to close the gap between potential and execution.
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Why Women In Combat Matters
SPEAKER_01One of the most interesting conversations that we're seeing on the national landscape within the military, especially with Pete Hagseth taking over as the Department of War, was this issue of women in combat. And I have had a lot of discussions about that around the time when Hagseth was being considered for the nomination. I had a lot of spicy conversations online with people about this topic. And what I really came to was the idea that it's something that it's okay for us to talk about. And I've been waiting to have this conversation with someone for a very long time. But not only did I get to have this conversation with somebody who has served in an infantry position, this is also somebody who is an athlete, a warrior, an overall badass, and not afraid to talk about hard things. So, Riley, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03Great. Thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm happy you are here because, like I said, this is one of those conversations, like the change transgender conversation. I'm still waiting for that moment when somebody who is transgender is willing to have that conversation with me. I don't know if that will ever happen, but the fact that you'll have this conversation, I think is incredibly important. And I do think you have a unique perspective to share about it.
Meet Riley And Her Mission
SPEAKER_01So, welcome everyone to the Stories of Service Podcast, ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of the Stories of Service podcast. And to get us started, as we always do, I'll play an intro from my father, Charlie Pickard.
SPEAKER_00From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service, hosted by Teresa Carpenter, here from ordinary people from all walks of life who had transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.
SPEAKER_01And as I mentioned, Riley was in a combat arms role that is historically close to women, responsible for leading teams of over a hundred soldiers in high-pressure environments where standards were enforced and not negotiated. And they weren't theoretical. It was forged in real time under real consequences. But this story is about so much more than that. Riley has faced sexual harassment and assault during her time in uniform and experiences that a lot of times we don't talk about and we need to. And instead of being protected by the system that she served in, she was forced to navigate the very tension between mission readiness, power dynamics, and personal safety. And today we're going to take that conversation head on and we're going to explore what it means to be a woman in combat arms. And we're not going to talk about this in a partisan way, but we're going to talk about what it was like on the ground, that lived reality, and that pressure to perform, the expectation to improve yourself repeatedly, and the cost when leadership and accountability fall short. But there's a lot of other things we're going to talk about today. She also had a turning point with a diagnosis diagnosis of traumatic brain injury. And she'd been operating under that for years, under conditions that she did not even understand. And this became the catalyst for her healing and the journey that she's on today. She is the founder of The Standard, a performance and leadership framework built on three pillars mind, body, and mission. And through her coaching, she helps veterans, leaders, and high performers close the gap between potential and execution. So welcome again, Riley. Thank you, Teresa. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_03I'm happy to be here and I'm really glad we're having this conversation because I'm my whole philosophy is, and maybe yours too, but change starts with a conversation.
SPEAKER_01So here we are. Absolutely, here we are. And like I say, I pride myself. I said this earlier in a post about the fact that I think that I have been partisan in the past, partisan on both sides. And I have come to the conclusion that this is just one of those things, like all hard issues, that have to be done without a partisan spin. They just have to be based on the science, on the reality of the ground, on the lived experiences of the people like yourself that have seen it firsthand. So
Infantry Training And The Standard
SPEAKER_01to get us started, where were you born and raised and what inspired you to join the Army?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I guess in a nutshell, I'm from a lot of different places. Born in Tennessee, I'm an Army brat. So that was partially what prompted me to join was serving our country and carrying on the family tradition. But I mostly spent time in San Antonio and El Paso growing up in Texas. So I call Texas home. And yeah, other than wanting to serve our country and defend our constitution, the family tradition, I'm talking generations of all army pipe hitters, if you will, and infantry branch specifically, I had a little bit more of an ego back then and loved a challenge and had something I needed to prove, but more importantly, show women like my little sister, who's 14, that they can do literally whatever they put their mind to, despite what other people say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And what was interesting about learning more about you is that you did have a sports background, right? You were an athlete. Well, I will believe you you wrestled. There were other, there were a few other things that you did throughout your career that that we'll talk about throughout this call. And I believe that played a big part in where you ended up going next. Would you, would you say that's true?
SPEAKER_03100%, yes. Uh little did I know, and I've said this many times, but I was being groomed for a combat arms role, specifically the infantry. I mean growing up living off of land and camping in desolate areas and having target practice in the middle of the woods, and then of course joining uh wrestling and eventually MMA and really being the only woman in those rooms at times. Yeah, it couldn't have primed me better.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Now, when you joined the army, did you join the army under infantry or did you I want to say I was listening to another show that you were on, you enlisted in another MOS, correct?
SPEAKER_03Technically, technically not. So I didn't actually go through my infantry qualification training, the infantry basic officer leadership course, I bullock is what they called it when I went through, but that wasn't until 2020. And I signed the contract in 2016 under the simultaneous membership program. So I was technically enlisted for a couple of years until I had my commission, but under cadet. And the four years leading up to my active duty time, I was in the guard, but filling in an infantry billet.
SPEAKER_01Now, when you went through your infantry training, your class were you the only female in your class? Or were there others?
SPEAKER_03There were others. I believe there were five, five or six of us total out of about 220.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that was awesome. My gosh, that's like what two and a half percent, less than two and a half percent of them were women. And that's the people who started of the 220 of the people who came in. How many did all five end up graduating? We had one that didn't.
SPEAKER_03I think I want to say eventually she did, but there was a phase that had to be recycled.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And so just to clear the air, because people will ask, because there's rumors of it, and I really want to know from your perspective. Did you ever feel at any time as you were going through this training that they lowered the standards, made things easier, or did anything to make sure that you and your five other females would get through the program?
SPEAKER_03No.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_03And I know that's the conversation that's up for debate, but absolutely not. And I'm sure the other women that were with me can say the same thing. If not, I made it harder on myself by choosing the student company commander, like applying for this position and then fulfilling this position, which was ultimately like the role of a cadre or augmenting cadre. So if anything, there was a little more pressure. Sure.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And and I'm sure like they they they probably made it that way. So what were some of the what were some of the parts of the training that you found to be like either the most challenging or the most fun?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for me, most challenging was the grenade toss.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That was really hard. I yeah, didn't I my throwing skills are terrible? So yeah, that that was almost a failed event for me, but luckily it wasn't. But I would say, other than that, and I do say that in jest, but really it was it was one that I almost did not pass. And it was a requirement. But also one of the more challenging things that we did was, and and I I think this is for all infantry training across the board, you know, having to operate at night on little sleep, run missions at night on little sleep with subpar equipment, in my opinion. But you have a one-eye night division goggle, and yeah, it that that was probably the most challenging and navigating potholes. But I think the I had the best time in those same environments with my peers and just really bonding through this difficult, challenging experience where we're all subject to the same circumstances and you really get to know someone that way. Right.
SPEAKER_01You get to know like their the core of who they are when they're faced with pressure. Because I feel like people who have not faced pressure or or have not been stressed out together, they don't really know every side of a person. They might know some sides, but they don't see all sides. And then when someone is stressed, there's another side of a person that comes out. And having been through that training, I can only imagine that you saw different sides to people. Now, how did you feel about the way that the other classmates treated you? Were you you were probably just were you a member of the team? Were there some that just were really hesitant to to work with females? How how did that go for you in training?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I've said this before and I'll say it again. Going to going on active duty into that training was actually a breath of fresh air for me because leading
Harassment In The Guard Reality
SPEAKER_03up into that point for the first four years of my military career, I was in the guard. And this was typical guard time, but I also had some active duty service time in the guard as well. But I was not treated fairly. I was treated very poorly. And quite frankly, like I didn't belong. And the leaders made it clear that they didn't want me there. So leading up to that, I had that sort of experience. But going into active duty and going through this training, my peers, I mean, we're all similar age. Most of them were West Point graduates, fortunately. I know there were some older folks that were prior service, but even then, I did not experience the level of just blatant disrespect and disregard on a human level that I experienced prior to that. And my peers were phenomenal. They did treat me as a teammate, as you know, one of the boys, if you will, but really I didn't experience anything like what I had experienced leading up to this training.
SPEAKER_01I watched a little bit of that podcast. And for those of that didn't see the show, you you had a few incidences before this happened that a lot of people don't talk about in the workplace. And the and it was interesting because as I was listening to it, all I could do was think back on my time enlisted, and even some of the times as a junior officer, I experienced those same things. And a lot of times it's something that the leadership just doesn't want to deal with. And so tell me a little bit about what happened to you before you went to that infantry training, and then we'll get back to the infantry training because I do have some questions for you too about women in combat arms positions and on the battlefield and what you think of that going forward, and then we'll transition to what you're doing today. But going back to before the infantry training, tell me just a little bit about what happened.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Before that official training, I mean, you can imagine I was talking to people that were in the military prior to graduating high school. I had found out I was going to attend a military college prior to graduating high school. So I'm 18 years old. People are having these conversations with me that have been in the military, specifically men. And the general consensus was you will never be successful in this role. Like it's not designed for women, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then there were a few that supported me and said, you know, go for this. It's groundbreaking, it's historical. But going to the military school and the cadre there, even my professor of military science was an infantry officer, and he was incredibly hard on me. And there were seven other women in my class. I think we had 33 total. It was a small junior military college. And it did not matter how good my grades were, how well I performed physically, which I was often in the top three of the class. It just any opportunity he had to pick me apart, he would take it. And so fast forward to my first experience with my unit out in Pennsylvania. I was the only woman and specifically the only woman filling this billet of an infantry platoon leader. And it I guess it was foreshadowing. I mean, one of my first drills, one of my first trainings, a senior non-commissioned officer said to me, verbata, because of how you look, your men will never respect you. He's he said, because you are not a bull dike, your men will not respect you. And that stuck with me. And I was 18 years old at the time, and there was inappropriate conduct from the readiness NCO, my main point of contact. He had a family. He was essentially sending me explicit messages and just treatment like that. I was groped at one point by my platoon sergeant during a nightfire. Like that was all, I guess, setting the stage for then my next unit in California, where they had zero women before as well. And I was the same position filling an infantry billet, but they only had myself as another officer and my commander. And even prior to my arrival there, I had sent him, you know, my bio and intro email and all the things that you do. And I was just very excited because at this point I'm commissioned. I feel like I have a little more leverage, a little more weight to what I say and what I decide. And this man didn't respond to me. He didn't want anything to do with me. My first interaction with the first sergeant who was awful in ways where this man, I had just had surgery, and you know, he said it's not going to be a good impression for you showing up in a medical boot, first training. But yeah, and that just opened up the door for constant scrutiny about how I look, constant scrutiny about how I act, not wanting to be anywhere near me, not being welcoming whatsoever. Eventually, I'll say, like when we warmed up to each other, maybe a lot of us were coming from out of town. So oftentimes we would all have dinner before drill the next day. And at one point we had somebody, I think he was the exo previously, but he for whatever reason moved to New Jersey but came back to drill here. I'm not sure. But he shows again, same type of situation. Like we're all at dinner. This guy like decides to grope me, nobody notices, I don't know what to do. Aside from that and the constant like harassment and scrutiny that I was receiving, there was another incident with the first sergeant there. I mean, this was a new first sergeant and someone who actually worked full-time at the Vision. He was incredibly inappropriate with me and made a situation extremely uncomfortable, like closing his office door after one of these dinners and like turning the lights off and inviting me to sleep in his office. And I'm like, no. So the time I felt the courage to speak up about this and tell my commander, it turned into, well, what did you do wrong to make him do these things? And then him, then the first sergeant threatening me, saying, I can help you file a complaint. And I was like, not interested. Just wanted to let you all know this is uncomfortable. And that was the last time that happened.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I mean, that's what's so sad about it is that a lot of times people, when you call them out on something, they'll deny it at first, but then you fix the problem. And that's so sad that that's what it takes. It takes like you having to say something, them being defensive about it, and then the problem getting fixed. And these things do happen. And I think that it's really unfortunate that it just gets swept under the rug because people don't want to deal with it, or they're part of the problem. They're they're the people that are perpetuating this treatment. And I think so. It sounds to me like you're a you're going to the infantry school training and and going was kind of an esc was kind of like a good thing because it got you out of this environment and got you training and got you kind of on mission with what it was you were going to be doing in the army, correct?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And then when you ended up graduating from infantry training, did you didn't go to a first uh duty station, right? Or did you? Where did you go after training?
SPEAKER_03Yeah,
Gear Fit And Injury Risk
SPEAKER_03I did. So right before graduation, I sustained an injury. And so at that point, I said, you know what, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not doing this whole infantry thing anymore, especially if it's gonna cost me my body, which I'm very active.
SPEAKER_01And so that is something I do want to just address very quickly. Don't mean to interrupt you, but my a lot of people will say, and this is something I hear all the time, and I'm curious about your perspective is do you think that they actually make gear that will fit a woman? Or do you think that the okay, so that's the other piece to this, this whole thing that nobody wants to talk about? You know, like if you're going to say that women and men can both be in combat arms positions, well then you have a duty and a responsibility to ensure that the gear that the women are wearing will not cause injuries and will protect them. And and you you don't think that that was something you experienced.
SPEAKER_03No, no, no, especially the essential pieces like our plate carriers, our rucks, absolutely not. Even the uniforms, they they the debut for summers came out and there were no women versions.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that's that, and that to me is like you're almost setting uh people up for failure. You either, I mean, I I believe that every person who passes the standard has the right to perform in those jobs. That's just my kind of going into this position. I do think, however, that there are certain jobs physically that are just going to be tougher for women than men. And and and and that's a part of this conversation that nobody talks about. So and so it if you're going to be in a position where you're going to be running with a huge rucksack, you're gonna have pounds and pounds of gear on you. If your body physically can't handle that, then your body physically can't handle that. And even this evolving warfighter, he says, yeah, gear doesn't fit all men. Women have far more variation in their body shape with all the competing needs of the military. There is a real question of how much should be invested in this area. And and that's that's the point that a lot of people get at when they talk about women in combat arms positions, is that there's so few women who can meet the standard. There are so few women who are in for whatever reason, let's just say it's because of stereotypes or whatever, that women sometimes don't even have the interest uh in competing in these positions. And so my question for you is based on you now have gone through this training, what do you think of that conversation? Should it be anyone who meets the standard? Should they make gear? Should I mean can the military make gear that fits women's bodies for every condition? And can every woman who's athletic, who's who's like you, who who did all these sports, do they have a fair chance at being able to do this and sustain it long term? What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, those are all really, really great questions, Teresa.
SPEAKER_01I think first and foremost. Yeah, I know we're we're going deep. We're going deep. And and I told you we were gonna do this. And that was one of the reasons why I did the pre-call with you, because I was like, all right, I've been wanting to have this conversation for a while. And and if it gets a little spicy, it gets a little spicy. But this is the problem. The the, you know, you got the right on one side who says, no, no, no, no, no, no combat arms positions. You got everybody on the left saying, no, women can do everything, and they conflate the entire thing of you know, the right hating all women. And it's not that. It's like, where's the middle ground of what women can? Can and can't do where the interest is. Is this worth the interest? And so that's where I'm curious where you where you stand on some of this stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Uh and yeah, so we'll start with the standards and women as a whole being in combat arms roles. I think that's totally fine. I think I think there I think a a woman with a similar background to mine, like going into that, being an athlete. I will be honest with you, the physical part was not the hardest part for me. It really wasn't. But it was more so the other stuff that I experienced in the guard leading up to the actual qualification training. Yeah. But the physical stuff, it wasn't it. Like I smoked dudes, like dudes smoked me. But there was one instance of my guard unit, our sniper section team, we had a 12-mile ruck for tryouts, and I'm like, I'll go ruck with the guys. And none of them passed it except me.
SPEAKER_01So sure.
SPEAKER_03But it goes, it goes both ways. There are men that cannot handle the standards that are required as well. But I think closing off a very important, a significant part of our military to just keeping it at one gender. And I see both sides. I totally get it. Like, especially if you're looking at it from, I don't know, a biblical perspective. You know, women are have a certain role, men have a certain role in the world.
SPEAKER_01But I definitely don't see it from that perspective. But I understand that some people do have have that perspective. Some do. Some do.
SPEAKER_03Okay. I get I do not delete the comments on my posts. I mean, I've gotten everything from that to like women shouldn't be in the military, period, to whatever.
SPEAKER_01But even the harassment side, that's something that the military needs to fix with culture. That's got nothing to do with I don't care where you're serving, I don't care if you're serving in camps. I mean, I I served with CBs who were in open bay barracks and they found a way to make it work. And they were building schools, building roads, digging bridges, and it was women and men serving together. And and I can tell you from what I saw, from the you know, the several days I spent with those guys, there was no issues. I mean, and then they had a team, they had leadership that wasn't going to tolerate that kind of nonsense. So when you have the right leadership, those those problems can be dealt with and can be that those kinds of problems. I'm not saying they're not going to be happening at all, but they're going to be dealt with in the proper manner. So I don't buy the culture side either, because I do believe that's something that should be worked out with proper leadership. But I do see the gear issue, and I do see the strength issue from, like you said though, I mean, you're you're kind of making me see the other side about strength and how there were probably dudes that you were beating. And so you can't just say just because you're a woman, you won't have the strength. So then it comes down to gear and whether or not the military, so let's address that, whether or not the military should accommodate women and fit gear long term so that their bodies don't break.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I'm laughing because why wouldn't they? Right, right, but they don't. And why don't they? And I've been on both sides of it, Teresa. Like having worked in government contracting in it, corporate corporations that win military contracts. I see the amount of money being pushed into these things, especially being in the army and then seeing, oh, we only have this one specific vendor that charges $20 for, I don't know, a dry eraseboard marker or something. Like I'm exaggerating, but it is that level of what's the word I'm looking for? Just totally unnecessary, inflated pricing that we are subjected to because for whatever reason somebody locked in this contract however long ago, and now we have to pay tons and tons of money unnecessarily to get essentials, like office supplies. So why can't some of that funding be put into something that has been so heavily thought about and widely debated and is so controversial? I mean, it's almost like they don't want the women to be successful, right? Like there was no sort of like culture integration, no training other than maybe like an annual sharp training, okay, great. Nobody really pays attention to that, clearly. But there could have been some sort of here's how we're going to step by step integrate
Strength Differences And Mission Value
SPEAKER_03women.
SPEAKER_01If that's something that they want bad enough, yeah. If they want bad enough, and if if if, like you said, they put so much importance on it and they said this is what we want to do, but the and and the sexual assault and the sexual harassment issue is the culture issue needs to be changed with a proper complaint system. And I've said that all along. Like the root issue is not the fact that women are getting sexually assaulted or the fact that court martial procedures aren't proper or the IG is broke. The problem is a due process issue. And I've said that all along. If we had the proper way to resolve complaints and due process was guaranteed in the system, in other words, there was a fair way to resolve a conflict within the office, then then, you know, if if and that that comes down to healthy leadership, right? People who are in charge that are emotionally intelligent and are healthy and have empathy and have compassion and and and and and maintain standards and and and uh uh accountability and have accountable if all those things happen, then then we we fix those those those sub symptoms. Because if we don't fix the root cause, which is the broken due process system, then we're gonna have sexual assault, we're gonna have sexual harassment, we're gonna have sometimes men who are falsely accused, we're gonna have all these things that are happening because of the fact that we haven't fixed the complaint system. So that part I know we can fix. The state, the, the, the gear part we can fix. And then the one last thing that I think that my my detractors will say about this issue is over long periods of time, will women sustain more injuries? Does the medical science say that if a woman is subjected to the physical rigors of a combat arms position, will they have more injuries? I don't know the answer to that. There's people who say, like I said, evolving warfighter, and I know who this is. He's a gentleman who's been on my show. He says, While women can meet the standard, medical research demonstrates they are far more vulnerable to injury, attempting to maintain standards over time. But then it becomes down to what standards are you talking about? Are you so what's your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I wish I had the medical data to back it up, but I I will tell you, I mean, my my body feels it. I definitely feel it physically. And but I I will say, like, so so do men that were in the same role. So I my question would be along with the some sort of culture training, integration training, having women in this, there should have been some sort of training, like recovery, some sort of focus on on recovery and mobility. And there was actually a really good program, and I wish I could remember the name of it, but it was only for, I don't even know. I think one of my peers did some sort of like drug deal with this. It was, oh gosh, I really wish I could remember what it was, but um, it was a fancier gym on Fort Benning, and it was for special people basically, but they took a group of us women that we were preparing to go to ranger school, basically. And they had physical therapists for us, they had a uh individualized tailored training plan for us. I mean, it was incredible if if there had been something like that, because I know for a fact as well, when I joined the branch and well, combat arms was open to women in general when I joined. So they were they being, I don't know, the powers that be big army, cadet command, trade doc, they were taking any woman that had, I think, good like physical fitness scores and not even ranking, because we had to rank our branch or career field choices one through 17. And that's you know, however, you ended up on the order of merit list is how you ended up in your career field. And I know a lot of women were just getting pushed into the career field, even though it was maybe bottom of their list or not even in the top 10. So, with the with the culture piece, if there was some sort of train up and then aftercare, I think that would have been phenomenal. And also to your question about how does the body stand over time? That's a great question. I don't understand why there wasn't some sort of data group. I mean, why aren't we all being tagged, like you know, the cows that have the little trackers on them or something? Like, yeah, why are you why would that not happen?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and why and why weren't why weren't those studies transparent? I mean, that that's the way I see it is you they people always quote this 2015 study of marines. And I've been told time and time again that that's one study where they found that the women maintain many more injuries wasn't exactly the best study because it wasn't taking everybody who's in their peak shape. It wasn't put it, there were certain factors that were put into that experiment that just weren't necessarily what a true combat situation might look like. And so my question then is what is it going to take to have those serious conversations and to talk about it in a way that isn't partisan? I I have a very another friend who I won't mention, and I really like her a lot, but she's always putting out things on social media about women and how much Hague Seth hates women and this and that, and women can do anything and all this. And and sometimes I just get a little frustrated because I want to take it one step further and do exactly what you and I are doing right now and say, yes, we we can do everything, but but can we and still and still maintain our bodies over time? Can we uh fight in a street urban conflict situation and and keep up with all the men? Maybe we can. And but the and the weak men would have to not be in those situations either. It would just be the strongest men. And then also, why haven't women passed SEAL tests? Why is the Navy SEALs like that one bastion where no women has made it through? I I don't think it's because of discrimination. I think it's because the the SEAL standards just physically must be so high that that women just can't meet that bar. And that's all I can think. And I do think that scientifically, women statistically, by by by just large aggregate groups, women are are don't have as much muscle mass as men. We know this. I mean, that's what happened during that big controversy with the transgender swimmer and the fact that that person won and was miles ahead in in his or her class. And when he was a man, he was like at the bottom of the pack. And I'm saying that's just one example. There's probably more. And I'm not I'm trying so hard not to be partisan or one way or the other on this, but when can we have that conversation that meant that maybe there are men who are physically stronger? And if they are, and they get chosen to be at the top of the top and they get through the training, is there something wrong with that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I I I think you hit the nail on the head, Teresa. Like I mean, biologically men are more capable physically or should be more capable physically. But again, I get it depends on the person. And sure, the infantry was created not with women in mind, but I I guess to our conversation earlier, like there are plenty of capable women, but just as there are plenty of men who aren't capable, and so if you get a stud of a guy who just outperforms everybody, that's great for the branch. But I I think there's we're missing something here. Whereas, okay, yes, in my opinion, having that initial training where everybody meets baseline, based like basic training. Everybody meets baseline, they can be in this career field, they are capable of the essential tasks, basically. But we have a competitive edge. Like women think differently than men. Right. And why wouldn't we bring a different perspective to the table? Why wouldn't we bring like I've had friends that experience combat and they're like, what an asset it would have been to have a woman out there with us to do XYZ or certain things, like a man can't, you know, dress up disguised as a certain individual overseas or whatever the case is and be a little more covert. Not necessarily like a honeypot, but like I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_01I know what you mean. Well, it's it's like the female searchers in my buddy uh Asad. I just did a show with him, and he was on one of the first on the ground in Afghanistan, and he had a group of about 30 women who would go door to door and search the women in Afghanistan because a man could not search an uh a woman because of cultural sensitivities. And those women were essential, they were essential to the mission. And I think that, and I'm not trying to say that that's the only role they can perform, but I mean, we see women pilots, we see women drone pilots, we see, and so I I am not to say I I mean, obviously, I benefited and and and directly uh am so grateful and honored for the for the 30 years that I served in the military as a woman. And so I by no means think that the military should should close anything off to women, even even Navy SEAL training. If if a man if a woman could get through the physical side of Navy SEAL training, I believe she deserves to be a Navy SEAL. Period. I know some people disagree with me on that, that's okay. But I do think there are some genuine concerns from a physical standpoint with what a woman can do and what it would do to her body, but you could say maybe the same thing about a man. And so I think that's kind of where the argument goes when it comes to this. And it's something that I think that the Department of War needs to look at. And again, my buddy Evolving Warfighter, he says, You are cheating. If you use the argument, you have to look at the specific example for a woman. You cannot make a general statement that women are smarter than men. There are far more men. I'll show you this.
SPEAKER_03No, I can't see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let me show you what he says. He just says, You are cheating. If you use the argument, you have to look at a specific example for a woman. You cannot make a general statement that women are smarter than men. And that's not kind of what that's not what Riley said. She said basically that there are certain superpowers differently, you think differently.
SPEAKER_03However, while we're on the topic, I believe our brains mature faster.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I know what you mean by that.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, there's far more male geniuses.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I think I think I think what what you were trying to say, and and I do believe this too, and and and again, it doesn't go there's there's generalities and then there's there's absolutes. And in general, I will say that there are I have I have worked with a lot more women who are collaborative than I have with men. So when women and men work together from a diversity standpoint, I do believe that there's so much value in it. That's just my personal experience. That's not as a whole, I'm not trying to say that about all women or all men, but I do believe that women tend to include more people into the discussion and give more people a voice sometimes. I'll be in a room with all men and they'll be competing just to make themselves heard and to be the one that's right. Whereas when I get into a room with women, I notice that women tend to want to be more collaborative when they come to a solution. So, from an operational planning standpoint, I do believe that women and men complement one another and have their strengths and their weaknesses. So I'm glad you entertained this part of this discussion. I knew it would be a little bit spicy, but I do believe it's important. And and to the point of the people who are in the comment sections, I I do want to say that I would like to see those long-term studies. I would like to see the Department of War use those long-term studies. I would like them to do this analysis that they said they were going to do, which by the way, hasn't been released, that they said they were gonna do. And then when we do see it, I want the critics and I want the people who have who understand the science to actually look at it from an objective point of view. That's all I want. And I want it to be free from any partisan spin on the left or on the right. And I know you want that as well.
SPEAKER_03I would love that.
SPEAKER_01So, so so moving on past that point, tell me a little bit about what happened after the injury and then where you transitioned from that point.
Injury Pivot And New Career Path
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I um so I actually ended up similarly to how we chose our career fields. That was kind of how we chose our duty stations. It's like, well, I don't know, they had a new system out at the time where you basically it was like a matchmaking system with the duty station and then whoever you are. And I forgot what it was called at this point, but I had received my top choice, which was over in Vicenza. But since I sustained the injury, I thought, I'm not going to ranger school, I'm not going to airborne school, I'm not doing any of those things because my well-being, my physical well-being is much more important to me. So I did a little drug deal and ended up staying local at the one-station unit training, which at the time, and I it still might be the case, but it was the only gender integrated one station unit training, which is the basic training and then infantry advanced training for soldiers. So that was a really cool experience. My goal was to pivot into the medical field. And I was taking classes locally in Columbus, Georgia at uh Columbus State, and soon realized I'm terrible at chemistry. So said that's not it for me either. But spent some time there and then eventually found myself in public affairs land. My goal was to become a public affairs officer, which is traditionally reserved for like a senior captain, but they were doing some new pilot program and another drug deal and came in as the XO. So that was neat. But my time at OSAT really opened my eyes as well, especially given my time in the guard. I had incredible leadership. To your point earlier, it really does depend who is in charge, especially having been in command and then remembering how my commander and the guard handled that situation where I just wanted to bring something to his attention. It really, really defines the action or inaction, depending on the person. But I I had an incredible battalion commander, an incredible brigade commander. I ended up in ops after I was a PL and EXO in that environment. And yeah, then found myself in public fares land.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So tell me a little bit about what happened with the traumatic brain injury. Was that something that you got diagnosed with as you were leaving infantry, or was that something as you got out?
SPEAKER_03This was very recent, actually. This was
TBI Discovery And Ski Therapy
SPEAKER_03last week, Teresa. And I wanted to include it in the bio that I gave you because I, long story short, was medically retired from the military for a PTSD diagnosis. And so I entered this pilot program last week for the intent is to get skiing and snowboarding approved through the VA eventually. And what we had to do was initial baseline data, which included a brain scan. And so in doing that, the doctor approached me and said, Hey, how long have you had this TBI? And I said, What are you talking about? And sure enough, that was there. And here I am thinking, you know, all these symptoms that I've been having were related to the PTSD diagnosis. But turns out they can present similarly. And I ended up undergoing a treatment while I was there that kind of completely changed everything for me. It was basically PRP for your brain. But again, all things with the skiing, which was incredible and amazing.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean by skiing and snowboarding through the VA? What is that? Is that like an adaptive sport? Like what is tell me a little bit. Tell us all a little bit about yes, I would love to.
SPEAKER_03It's so if somebody wants to read more about it, I saved everything in a highlight on my Instagram under Vet Therapy. But basically, one of my good friends I've known for years, Matt Zeller, he put this organization together called the Aspen Elevation Institute because he himself, he was in war, he suffered brain injury and has been living with that almost his entire life and found solace in skiing. And he said, Well, hey, if there's something there for me, there might be something there for other people. And so he gathered this medical team, he gathered donors, he got, you know, he just made this cool thing happen and it came to life last week. And anyway, they're they're planning to grow it and have another cohort this coming, I believe, spring, January, February timeframe. But the what the Data showed, which was incredible, was that they accomplished related to how our brain functioning improved, they accomplished in five days of us skiing and snowboarding what the VA accomplishes in six months. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I don't, this doesn't surprise me because I feel the same way about what I do at the gym with weightlifting and playing pickleball once a week. And now I'm going to take up swimming because I'm going to do this like swim fundraiser in August. And I will tell you, the stuff that I'm doing with my body and the physical activity has done more to take away my PTSD and my anxiety than any other thing other than EMDR. I did do a few sessions of EMDR, and that helped me a lot get rid of uh some some trauma and some resentment I had towards a parental figure. Now, once I had that out of the way, the next thing that I think that has been the most instrumental is just is moving my body. And now it's really with the weights, with weight lifting, because I do believe that as we age, we have to have strength. Have to. Because you lose your body and you let it go, then everything else goes downhill from that. The depression will come back, the anxiety, all those things that you have will come. And then you need to find a community of like-minded individuals who like to do the same things you like to do. And I think that helps too, just being surrounded by people who know you, get you, and and understand the real you. So it sounds like that's what he created.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it it's it's really incredible. Incredible work that he began, and now the whole team that's involved is doing. It's just I'm I'm very grateful to have been a part of it. And I will always share what has worked for me and what people are doing in our community that could help others always make it a point to share that.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. And what I do want to do too is I want to also, I know that I didn't get a chance to do this earlier, and it was funny because as we were on the call, there's another image of you right there. I'm gonna also pull up a few more. So tell us a little bit about that image. I I love seeing some of these pictures of you, and I really want to celebrate like your accomplishments and all the things you've done. I told you you need a picture book of all these things. You really do.
SPEAKER_03You're so kind. Thank you, Teresa. I'm I'm laughing because the internet is such a funny place, especially social media. And I use that photo. I've used that photo plenty of times before, but that particular photo, I made a post and the on-screen text was something to the effect of at age 20, I led people with twice my age and twice my experience. And here's what I learned, which is true. At age 20, I was a second lieutenant. And like any officer, up until you get into probably field grade, you are leading people who have much more experience than you and much more time in service than you. And so somebody took that and ran with it. And I mean, not somebody, a lot of people. I mean, you you're a captain, you're not 20 years old, you know, you're you're a commander. How are you doing that? You're at least, you know, this age. Well, like just any little thing they could grab onto. And I'm like, oh, y'all are missing the point. But it's okay, it's nothing new.
SPEAKER_01And then tell me a little bit about let me see if I can pull this one up again. Hold on, give me one second. I love adding these pictures too. So where was this? Do you see this one? Can you see?
SPEAKER_03I don't see it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, hold on. Let me see if I can add it. Let me see. Remove from studio. So, but as we're talking about all this, tell me a little bit about what it was like for your transition.
Transition Loss And Finding Purpose
SPEAKER_01Was your did you have a good transition, or was it a little bit on the stressful side, or how how did that go for you transitioning out?
SPEAKER_03So let's see. It was it was terrible, it was really bad. And I say that because some things totally out of my control, but as you can imagine, I'm in command. And I had a leader that was just very difficult to deal with. And being the type of person that I think most people who serve are where the mission comes first and your people come first. And for example, if I said, hey, I can't do this, I'm going through a medical retirement, I cannot be in command right now, that would have left them high and dry. And that did not sit right with me. So despite the medical retirement, I said, Yes, I will happily assume command and it went through tap because I did not know when my orders were going to be cut. And this was maybe November time frame. No, September time frame. But then following that, there were a series of losses. I lost somebody that was very, very close to me and important to me that October, shortly before my 26th birthday, and then the day after Thanksgiving, which was crazy because I never sleep with my phone by my bed. And I did that night, and I received a 3 a.m. phone call that absolutely no leader or anyone ever wants to receive. And we had lost a soldier, and a couple of my soldiers were in a fatal accident, but the one survived and and one didn't. And so, anyway, all that being said, it was just compounded. And then yeah, I was in command up until almost the very last day in the army. I somehow I secured a skill bridge, but it was all very much like me trying to just find the best thing I could as soon as possible. And yeah, not really being afforded the time or the opportunity or really even having the bandwidth to think about a transition. So it was rough.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is that does sound really rough.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And some people don't get it. I mean, I think skill bridge should be something that everybody gets approved for. And there's a lot of people that that don't even get it. I was very fortunate myself to get a skill bridge, but my my transition, I had all the time I needed to transition, but the last five years of of my career were were tough because I had started this podcast and I had gotten to this point where I was starting to see fissures and what we were saying publicly versus what we were actually doing, and and that didn't sit well with me. So it was it was tough, it was a little bit tough for me from a from a value standpoint. But as far as how I was treated, I was I was treated pretty well and I was able to get the time that I needed to transition. And sometimes people just just simply don't get that. But now you are out and will transition to what are you doing today? And tell me what a little bit of what your life is like now.
SPEAKER_03Yes, well, it is very different than it was even six months ago. I think, long story short, I had the one position I held when I got out of the military, and then that led me eventually out to Southern California for a different job. And I don't know, I always had this idea that I would not be working for someone else for the rest of my life. And I wanted to help people. And you know, when you leave the military, there's just a big piece that goes missing. I mean, at least for me, it was the purpose, the identity that I had. I mean, I'd call it my entire life growing up in a military family and then joining the military right out of high school, it was everything I had ever known. It was anything I had ever known. And losing that was really difficult. And I didn't really realize it, but looking for that in my professional work just didn't do it for me. I I was finding that a lot of red tape, which is fine, but also that people were not treated like people, and it was similar to the military. It was just the corporations I was at. I mean, it was just a machine that kept on turning, and and the main driver was revenue. And, you know, I said if I put half the effort that I'm putting in for these other people into something that I truly want to do, I will be successful. And so I started a business, end of October, didn't really know exactly what I was doing. Like most people, I don't know if the plane is it's flying.
SPEAKER_01And absolutely, I love it.
SPEAKER_03It was definitely a calculated risk. Like, you know, I've I've strategically made decisions in my life and taken other risks so that I could be in this place right now.
Building The Standard And Closing
SPEAKER_03But yeah, so I landed on basically building this personal brand called the standard, and it focuses on your mind, your body, and your mission. And to your point earlier, if your body goes, everything else goes. And my philosophy is if you're lacking in one, you're lacking in all. Your mind decides, your body executes, and your mission is what leads you. And that's that's my philosophy. I have a framework, I coach. That's a small piece of what I do, but I'm, I think a huge piece of what I do is better in advocacy. And yeah, I mean, it's still in the infant stages, but everything I've been sharing, the advice I share, the lessons learned that I share resonate, and it's really validating. I love it. I just want to get a heartache. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01No, I think this is such a beautiful picture of you. And uh I love what you're doing. I don't know if you can see, I'm gonna try to share it this here. I'm sharing also some other images that you you shared with me. And I like I told you, you've got such a beautiful story. You've been surrounded by some of the most amazing people as you were going through this journey. I I I I I think it's awesome that you can talk about some of the hard things, but then you can also talk about like what went right and and the people in your life that that did come through and and were there through through some of this. And I think that's like just part of life. I mean, man, I I I tell people all the time, like my my military career, some of it was amazing, some of it was incredible. Like my time at NATO, or my time on USS Russell, or some of the port visits that I got when I was the carrier PAO. I mean, there were so many amazing experiences, and none of the bad takes any of that away. But I would say 50 it's a 50-50 for me, and I think it's a 50-50 for a lot of people. A lot of people want to just tell you the great stories, or they want to paint it like it was all bad. And I I'm I honestly would have to just go right down the middle, like I do on politics, and say some of it was great and some of it really freaking sucked. And I think that's life. I mean, that's as we as we go through life. Some of it's gonna be great, some of it's gonna suck. So if people want to know more about your work and find you online, where can they find you?
SPEAKER_03You can find me mostly on LinkedIn and Instagram. It's just my name, Riley Grupo as you see it. I have a website, it was recently launched, so there's still a little, there are little tweaks that we're making, but it's also my name, RileyGrupo.com. So keep it simple.
SPEAKER_01I absolutely love it. I love it. I think your business is gonna take off. I've been following your content. It's so good, it's positive, it's motivating. I see it and I'm like, I just need to go to the gym, I need to work out more. So I I love it. I really love what you're doing, Riley. And I also thank you for having the courage to have those hard conversations because I do believe that we need to see more of them. We need to see this modeled more. I might not be the most perfect person to have them, but then there's people that are a lot smarter than me that should be having them and are not. And I hope one day that changes. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm gonna go full screen, say goodbye to the audience, and I'll just meet you backstage because I know you've got a tight deadline. Thank you, Teresa. I appreciate it. Awesome. All right, guys, that's a wrap. I know it's been a few weeks since I've been at it. I will be back for the next few weeks doing these shows, but only doing them weekly now. I think I was doing like two or three a week before, and that is not sustainable. So now I'm doing, I which was just absolutely crazy. I I think I I was I was retiring and I was like, I'm gonna do all these shows. And then I realized, well, shoot, I'd like to have a life and meet people locally and and go on vacations and do other things. So now I do all those other things too. But thank you guys so much for always tuning in to the Stories of Service podcast, where you'll see those hard and those difficult issues, and I love it. And I have some guests that are willing to have them with me. So tune in next week. And as I say, when I close these calls, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye bye now.