VA Malpractice and Finding A Voice | Brian Tally - S.O.S. #255

A routine VA visit turned into a life-or-death spiral—and a blueprint for change. Marine Corps Sergeant Brian Talley woke up in 2016 with sudden, ferocious back pain. The VA labeled it a “low back sprain,” refused bloodwork and imaging, and sent him home with escalating opioids. Months later, an outside MRI led to surgery that uncovered the real culprit: a bone-eating staph infection tearing through his spine and organs. He survived, but the damage was permanent. Then came the second blow: after telling him they breached the standard of care, the VA reversed course at the one-year mark, blaming an “independent contractor” and pointing him to state court—just after the statute of limitations expired.

What follows is a masterclass in citizen advocacy. Brian, broken and nearly bankrupt, drafted a bill in proper congressional format with the help of a teacher, built a grassroots coalition, and walked the halls of Congress on sheer resolve. He secured bipartisan champions in the House and Senate, navigated a pandemic hearing, and pushed through what’s known as the Talley Bill: a law requiring the VA to disclose, within 30 days of a tort filing, the employment status of every clinician named. That simple, surgical change closes a 74-year loophole that quietly stripped veterans of recourse by hiding contractor status until it was too late.

We get candid about the toll—panic attacks, sleepless nights, and the emotional whiplash of bills that start, stall, and finally pass. We also get practical: how to document care, push for labs and imaging when symptoms escalate, confirm provider status, file federal tort claims on time, and demand everything in writing. Brian’s story exposes how VA malpractice and contractor shields can collide, but it also shows how persistence, media pressure, and coalition-building can turn outrage into enforceable protections for millions of veterans.

If you care about veteran health care, accountability, and how laws really get made, this one matters. Listen, share it with someone who needs answers, and tell us what safeguard you would add next. Subscribe for more stories that turn pain into policy, and leave a review to help other veterans find this resource.

Chapters

• 0:00 Framing A Week About Due Process
• 1:23 Meet Brian Talley And His Mission
• 2:43 Early Life And Marine Corps Service
• 6:40 Entering VA Care After Service
• 8:40 Sudden Debilitating Pain And ER Visits
• 12:35 Dismissed Symptoms And Pill Spiral
• 16:10 Outside MRI And Shocking Findings
• 18:40 Surgery Uncovers Bone-Eating Infection
• 22:10 Recovery, Disability, And Family Fallout
• 26:20 Filing A Tort Claim And VA Reversal
• 31:00 The Contractor Loophole Revealed
• 35:05 Hitting Walls: No Congressman, No Recourse
• 39:20 Choosing Advocacy Over Despair
• 42:00 Drafting A Bill And Building A Team
• 45:20 Walking The Halls Of Congress
• 49:30 Media Pressure And First Bill Attempts
• 53:20 Bipartisan Strategy And Companion Bills
• 57:20 Hearings, Pushback, And Passage
• 1:01:10 What The Talley Law Changes
• 1:04:00 Aftermath, Ongoing Advocacy, And Podcast
• 1:08:10 Veteran Suicide, Community, And Hope
• 1:11:30 Closing Reflections And Sign-Off

Transcript

SPEAKER_07: 0:01

So today has been the, or this week rather, has been the week of due process and due process protections. And then on Tuesday, as you know, I brought you the story of Major Clarence Anderson. And unfortunately, he is still waiting for his due process. But to balance that out, I wanted to bring you guys a story of somebody who did have success in Congress. And it's not with the military, but it's with an issue with the VA. And the VA even admitted the rude mistake, but then denied the responsibility for the mistake. And that's where Brian Talley comes in, and we're going to share his story today. Brian, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_05: 0:36

Teresa, thank you. Good. Good. I'm doing well.

SPEAKER_07: 0:39

Awesome. Well, I can't wait to tell this story. I think it's such an important story. Also, welcome everyone to the Stories of Service Podcast, ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of the Stories of Service Podcast, Teresa Carpenter. And to get us started, as we always do, I'm going to play a clip from my father, Charlie Pickard.

SPEAKER_01: 0:58

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service. Hosted by Teresa Carpenter, here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_07: 1:23

And Brian Talley is a former Marine Corps sergeant, author, and advocate whose routine medical care at a VA facility turned into a catastrophic malpractice case that nearly killed him and left him permanently disabled. But followed what was followed was not just a fight for survival, but the discovery of a legal loophole, nearly 75-year legal loophole that left injured veterans with no path for justice and no accountability inside the system that was meant to care for him. But he didn't just survive. After experiencing gross medical negligence, he uncovered this loophole and the veterans and how the Department of the Veterans Affairs handles malpractice claims. And instead of backing down, he drafted his own legislation, wrote it himself, lobbied Congress relentlessly, and helped pitch bills collectively known as the Tally Bill to close that loophole and restore justice for millions of veterans. And today we're going to share that mission behind his long-running podcast, I believe created after this incident, which is a platform dedicated to telling the stories of America's finest and amplifying those voices that are often ignored. Welcome again, Brian.

SPEAKER_05: 2:31

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07: 2:32

So first off, as I ask all my guests, uh, military or not, where were you born and raised? And what inspired you to, in this case, go into the Marine Corps?

SPEAKER_05: 2:42

I was born in Youngstown, Ohio. And uh when I was three, um, my mom took me out of there, me and my brother. Uh, we went to San Diego. Uh, she left my dad at a very young age. And um, you know, I was raised in San Diego until I was 15, and then we moved to Colorado. So I'm kind of all over the place there. But I would say San Diego for my you know early to mid-childhood, and then, you know, of course, my high school years were all in uh Colorado. So, I mean, two really nice places.

SPEAKER_07: 3:13

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think those are like the two most beautiful and sunny places in the United States, as far as I can recall. And then I'm actually from Columbus, so you were born and raised uh somewhere near me. And tell me a little bit about when you decided to join the Marine Corps, because Colorado is not a military town. Was it a military town where you lived?

SPEAKER_05: 3:38

Oh, oh, yeah. You know, where we lived, and you know, you got Fort Carson, you got the Air Force Academy, Shrever, Air Force Base, you know. I mean, I mean, you yeah, it's full of um military and retired military, but that didn't have any influence on my decision.

SPEAKER_07: 3:54

What and what influenced your decision?

SPEAKER_05: 3:57

Well, I was a knucklehead in high school. I kind of rebelled, um, you know, not having a lot of direction, not having a father in my life. And um, you know, even though my mom did a good job, and you know, a lot of her boyfriends and husbands along the way served as mentors, um, you know, when I needed it. And uh, but you know, other than that, I really struggled with grades, and um, you know, I really struggled with um just the um fact that I I I I didn't want to be at school, you know, so fought a lot. And uh, you know, it led me down this path of well, uh I if I'm gonna be successful in life, I need to do something. Um, I'm not going to college. Uh, so the next best thing would be the you know to join the military. And that's exactly what I did.

SPEAKER_07: 4:52

That's a story that is echoed with a lot of people, especially those of us who joined the enlisted ranks. I have a very similar story where I wasn't really going anywhere and saw that my friends were all going off to college or they were starting their lives or they were getting boyfriends or eventually husbands, and I was just kind of floating along, not with any sort of direction or guidance. So I completely understand where you're coming from. And so you decided to join not only the military, but the hardest branch of the military. Was that by design?

SPEAKER_05: 5:26

You know, the uh Marine Corps recruiters came into my high school about it was about well, it was my junior year uh in the beginning of the year. And I'm like, I I wanted I want to be that guy.

SPEAKER_07: 5:38

Yeah, well, they're so squared away. And Paul, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 5:42

So, you know, I was a magnet to them, they were a magnet to me. You know, it was a match made in heaven. Let's find the knucklehead in school and uh let's get him. And I ended up getting a bunch of other guys to kind of follow me into the so it was a good recruiting um, you know, deal for them. And uh, you know, one thing led to another. I enlisted in '94, and you know, it the rest is history.

SPEAKER_07: 6:08

What did you do in the Marine Corps?

SPEAKER_05: 6:10

So I was uh I had a couple of different MOSs, but mainly I was a Red Patcher. You know, that's like you, you know, you're doing a lot of uh uh missions on the beach, you know, shore party. You know, you got the helicopters coming in and they're carrying, you know, freight, cargo, and you've got equipment, static line stuff, big gloves to, you know, get the equipment off the helicopters, you know, just kind of you know, offload, load, get them in, get them out, uh, a lot of beach and terminal operations stuff. So a lot of logistics, and uh, you know, but it was fun. I was always in the field getting dirty, and uh, you know, it was uh you know, it was a fun time.

SPEAKER_07: 6:49

How many years did you serve?

SPEAKER_05: 6:51

Uh five years active.

SPEAKER_07: 6:53

Okay. And oh, so did you go into the reserves after that?

SPEAKER_05: 6:56

I did.

SPEAKER_07: 6:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 6:58

Yeah, I was in the active reserves after that out of Buckley and um did that for another three years.

SPEAKER_07: 7:06

Okay, so so eight years total, five years active, three years reserves.

SPEAKER_05: 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 7:10

So and and would you if you had to characterize your career, would you say that it was pretty uh successful, or did you start to see some of the issues that I talk about with due process or some of the the shenanigans, or was it just pretty much you had good leadership and and it was overall just a good experience?

SPEAKER_05: 7:28

Yeah, no, I didn't have any problems in the Marine Corps. Um, I was, you know, I picked up sergeant in three years and 10 months. And um, you know, of course, you know, we all have our issues, um, you know, especially, you know, coming in, you know, 18 years old, um, you know, not really having that father figure um in your life, you had to grow up pretty quick. Um, and um, you know, a lot of the times it's just adapting to the new life that I had chosen to live. And, you know, once I got the hang of it and I understood uh the mission behind the Marine Corps, um, it was great. And uh, you know, and I had a good time doing it. I almost re-enlisted, actually. Uh, we had that uh me and my wife, I got married in the Marine Corps. My excuse me, my uh firstborn, my daughter Alana, was actually born at Lake O'Neill uh hospital that's not even there anymore, and they tore it down, and um, you know, I had re-enlistment papers on the table. I I remember her and I had to sit down and do the pros and cons on that uh while holding a newborn baby, you know, in my arms. So I was like, man, what do we do? What do we do? What do we do? And yeah, so that's what we did.

SPEAKER_07: 8:46

Yeah, no, it's interesting that you say this because I've had a number of Marines on my podcast, and I will say that statistically, I mean, even just from me just kind of studying this issue, it's always the Marines who tell me that they had a really good experience, or they're the ones that are the most likely to tell me that their career or their time in the Marine Corps was so memorable. And sometimes I wonder if that's because the Marines have higher standards and more professionalism. And so there's just an expectation of excellence that people are held to in the Marine Corps that sometimes we don't see across the other services. Again, I'm just I'm speculating here, but I I sometimes wonder if if if the standards in the Marine Corps are what makes people more likely to reflect on their career in the Marine Corps in so much more of a positive way than I've seen in some of the other branches.

SPEAKER_05: 9:45

Yeah, I wouldn't know. Um it's just you know, one of those things that you know I ended up having a pretty good experience, um, you know, and just you know, just every day, you know, just uh showing up to work. And, you know, of course, you know, a lot of days sucked. Um but uh you know, you got to embrace it.

SPEAKER_08: 10:08

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_05: 10:09

And uh, you know, just kind of move on from there and you know, try to make the best decisions that you can, you know, moving forward as a young man, you know, in the military while serving in the Marine Corps, and you know, they really do drive home the honor, the courage, the commitment, the integrity part. Um, and uh, you know, it kind of stays with you, you know, for a lifetime.

SPEAKER_07: 10:29

So you get out of the Marine Corps and you enter into the VA system right away, or did it take you a little while to uh register with the VA? Or because what we'll do is we'll transition a little bit to how this incident happened that ultimately led to you pursuing legislation. So was that an immediate thing, or was it sometime afterwards?

SPEAKER_05: 10:53

A couple of years later, I started experiencing some problems uh that were service connected. And so I went to the VA and they're like, Yeah, you definitely, you know, um uh, you know, have uh VA benefits here, so you can start using the VA. You know, I was given a percentage, and um, you know, they said that you know you can start using services here, and you know, and I did. Um, you know, I used them at times for perhaps certain medicines that I needed. Um and then I I also had a civilian doctor as well that I saw. Um, so I would basically kind of go back and forth depending on what was needed.

SPEAKER_07: 11:32

What was the issue? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:34

I I didn't really, yeah, I yeah, I didn't really go to the doctor a whole hell of a lot. Um, you know, it was just you know, standard, you know, uh medical stuff, and you know, just kind of working on some of the things that um you know that hurt me right, you know, back when I was in. But uh, you know, you know, other than that, it was, you know, pretty pretty cut and dry.

SPEAKER_07: 11:57

I think I read in your background that you started a landscaping business after the military.

SPEAKER_05: 12:03

Yeah, so I started a custom landscape company uh that I ran, and um, you know, that did really well. And I had that company all the way up until I got hurt um on the outside by the VA.

SPEAKER_07: 12:16

Okay. So take me through what led up to you getting hurt or what happened uh that that led you into VA care.

SPEAKER_05: 12:27

So it was 10 years ago, uh to the month, um, you know, January 2016. Uh couldn't get out of bed one day, uh severe, you know, onset of back pain, and uh and it was horrible. Um, I I couldn't do anything. I I couldn't even go to the bathroom. So my bladder was completely full. I was on the bathroom floor um in my house, just trying to find any relief I could from the cold tiles. And uh my black lab, uh Rocky, was uh hanging out with me, just you know, he was letting me know that he was there and um you know as a sign of support. And um my wife got up in the morning and she saw uh the anguish and the uh fear and the pain in my eye, and she brought me to the ER um at the VA. And um they diagnosed me with a low back sprain, which is weird because I didn't have any, you know, trauma. You know, I didn't get hurt, you know, the day before or whatever. And you know, like I said, it was just a very sudden onset. So they gave me a shot of Delaudid and uh some pills, uh, some pain pills, uh, and uh, you know, some other you know, gabapentin, kenelog, you know, a bunch of other stuff. And they sent me home and they said I needed to follow up with my primary care. And that's exactly what we did. I called my primary care to try to get in, and uh I never got any phone calls back. And uh, you know, that was all to no avail. Two days later, uh, I find myself right back at the front uh doorstep of the VA ER. And this time I I couldn't do anything. I mean, literally, I was incapacitated, I was in a wheelchair. Um, I ended up having a panic attack on the ER floor in there, and they came out and they gave me a double shot of Delauded, more pills, told me to follow up with my primary care physician. And uh my wife, you know, started to cry. Uh, she was like, I don't know what to do. We've already tried to do this. I have calls in, I have emails in. Uh, and uh, you know, I just don't know what to do. Uh it's like my husband is dying here.

SPEAKER_08: 14:37

Sure.

SPEAKER_05: 14:37

And so she was consoled by other veterans in there. It was very packed, and they could see the pain I was in, uh, you know, and I was needing emergency medical care.

SPEAKER_07: 14:46

So, what VA were you with when this happened?

SPEAKER_05: 14:50

Uh Loma Linda in Southern California in uh Riverside.

SPEAKER_07: 14:54

Okay. And why didn't you use your did you have civilian insurance at the time uh to go to the emergency room and you opted instead to use VA care? And if so, was it because you thought that the VA would would would give better care? That was sort of maybe what was going into that.

SPEAKER_05: 15:13

Well, I was in Southern California at the time. My civilian doctor was in Colorado. I was in the process of uh, you know, because I I I already had established a business in Colorado, and I was basically establishing another business in Southern California, you know, so the two places I grew up. And uh I have four children, and they're all heavily involved in sports. The place I lived at in Colorado was very rural, and so we wanted to come into a nice town uh to kind of you know uh uh begin a life with the children at good schools, good sports, good community, and uh, you know, that to give them more of a shot and and chance of living a fun life, you know, going to the beach and you know, doing doing stuff like that. And so that's so that's what we did. And um, so I didn't have a civilian doctor there, so I relied heavily on the VA. Um, but I had never needed them before there, um, because it was still a fairly new move at the time when we got there, just kind of going back and forth between Colorado and uh uh uh Southern California. So that was my doctor, right?

SPEAKER_07: 16:22

Right, right. So this was absolutely what you were uh entitled to as a as a veteran.

SPEAKER_05: 16:30

And yeah, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, right? If this was gonna happen, if it would have happened in Colorado, um, I sincerely believe that the results would have been different, uh, but that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_07: 16:44

I see. So you go back to medical the second time in the ER, and what what what what is the what is the disposition when you leave that second time?

SPEAKER_05: 16:56

They yelled at my wife. You know, uh they said, we told you to go to your primary care. We're done treating you here. This is for you know, this is for emergencies. And uh they said I had a low backsprain, even though I was literally I I mean I was incapacitated in in three days of this sudden onset of pain. You know, I began to just drop in weight. The sweats were insane. And um, you know, you can't be giving a guy double shots of diluted and call it a non-emergency. I mean, they give you dilotic on the battlefield once you've been shot, you know. So they use, you know, you know, that's a hardcore uh opioid, and um it and it it really doesn't it really doesn't take the pain away, it just makes you not care about it. So I mean it's a crazy uh you know brain, uh I don't know, uh you know, just kind of builds this wall and it says, You're cool, man. You're you know, you're on this opioid, and you know, we're gonna make you feel good. Um, even though you still have this pain here, um, it's okay. You know, we're here to, you know, so it it it really really does play tricks on your mind when you're battling this pain. And so uh we went back home and now I had a full bag of pills. I had a complete cocktail. Um, at this time, I think I was up to 12 pills, maybe 13 pills a day, just in the first week alone, out of, I don't know, like six different pill bottles that my wife was just feeding me every four hours on the hour, even through the night. And you know, as I just sat uh sat in a chair. Um, I I still couldn't use the restroom, so I would have to drip into a bucket. Uh, I couldn't stand up, so I had to slide out of my recliner and uh kind of just drip into a bucket. It takes me about 40 to 45 minutes to uh to pee, uh, to uh empty my bladder. And this was all um, you know, uh told told to the ER as well. And so they still blamed it all. Well, you know, if you have back issues, sometimes it could affect your bladder and this and that. And so finally, a week later, um, my uh primary care uh called and says, Well, we can't see you, but we could see you in passing. Uh, we don't have time. So my wife brought me in there, and uh they saw us in passing in some hallway. And please understand that this has been 10 years. So I'm trying to recount this to the best of my ability, especially with all the cognitive um issues.

SPEAKER_07: 19:42

Uh no, I totally understand, and I appreciate you retelling the story to my audience.

SPEAKER_05: 19:47

I I just didn't even no, but what I was gonna say is that she saw us in passing and uh she said uh that she agreed with the ER report and that it was a little backsprain. Go home straight. You should be good to go in 10 days. And then immediately after that, I was back again to the V A E R shortly thereafter. And it was the same wash, rinse, repeat. And then after that, my wife thought she was doing everything right. And then that's what started this four-month-long endeavor where I was dying a slow and painful death in my chair. And my pills, uh the the dosage and the uh the quantities of the pills were increasing all the way up until I was on 40 pills a day out of 12 different pill bottles. Uh, again, that did a lot of cognitive um, you know, uh, you know, problems to me. And, you know, it's like sometimes, you know, I could speak clearly, and I know like you're talking and you're like, wait, what was I saying?

SPEAKER_08: 21:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 21:02

And, you know, so so I know it did a great deal of damage, um, you know, again, to speaking, cognitive, understanding things, and and and really just putting sentences together at times. I'm a better writer than I am speaker these days. Um, you know, just because it takes me time. You know, like you said, you know, you do these live. I have a podcast too that I started a couple of years ago. I can never do them live because it would be an absolute shit show. Um, yeah, so I have got to do a lot of edits.

SPEAKER_07: 21:30

So well, I can tell you, Brian, my shows are really messy sometimes. I'm surprised my audience has stuck with me. I I, in fact, I put out a video recently about how I've got to figure out a way to tell the story of how to tell a story because it's hard. It is hard to do live. Uh, I do live for transparency. That's the only reason I do it, is because I don't believe anything I read or hear on the internet. And so, because of that, I knew like the only way I was gonna do a show is if my audience knew that the first cut or the first clip was not going to be edited. And so that was why I decided to do it. But don't get me wrong, it does come with its drawbacks. I probably lose a lot of my audience because of the non-sequitors and the rabbit holes that we go down. But you guys get to see me and see my guest who as as as they are. So I appreciate you telling the story live. I know it's not easy. So let's go back to you're on all these pills, you're getting blown off by the VA. What happens next?

SPEAKER_05: 22:38

About a couple months later, uh, well, the whole time that this is going on, I'm incapacitated in my chair. I I didn't go downstairs for except for going to the doctors for four months. I didn't do anything. I just sat in my chair, I slept. And then when I wasn't sleeping, I was just sitting in my chair, just smelling the aroma of the you know, the neighborhood of people cooking and you know, hearing the kids outside playing and you know, hear the the sound of traffic, and you know, really put my mind into this weird state of you were living, but you weren't, you know, you weren't there. You you were just present, but you weren't, you know, and so um my wife was making all these calls and she was advocating heavily for me. And so she called this chiropractor and says, Hey, can you come look at my husband? He may have a slip disk or you know, whatever it may be. Uh, the VA has denied all diagnostic testing. Um, they said he had a low back sprain, but we don't know what's going on. We really would like an MRI. So he ordered an MRI, and that's when they found all these just you know things wrong in my spine, you know. Um, from you know, your um I forget all the the medical terms, but I needed surgery.

SPEAKER_07: 24:07

Um, and so yeah, so the there were, you know, so I brought that MRI report, or my wife did, to the VA and said, see, we had a chiropractor ordered MRI report, yeah, civilian chiropractor.

SPEAKER_05: 24:23

And so she proved to them that there was something wrong going on in my back and that we needed surgery, and so they're like, Well, we could do surgery in December. It was I want to say it was like December 12th or 16th of uh 2016, and my pain started the middle of January, and now we were in March, and so we would have to wait, you know, nine months uh for this surgery. And my wife said that's unacceptable. Um, we we need this surgery sooner. I mean, this guy is dying. I mean, he's down 40 pounds.

SPEAKER_07: 25:04

This is ridiculous. I can't believe this happened.

SPEAKER_05: 25:07

Yeah, and so they put me on the choice program, and I ended up having surgery on uh May 30th. And when and the doctor thought he was doing a surgery based on my MRI, but when he opened me up, um my spine was oozing with inflammation, and he found a surprise on the operating table that I had something very severe going on, and he described my spine as being moth-eaten. And uh, so they thought I had bone cancer, they thought I was cashed in, and uh, so they called it an infectious disease immediately. They stopped the surgery, and um, he got on there with his team and cleaned all that garbage out. Uh, they, you know, were cutting, you know, nerves and discs and you know, the disc tissue, and they were just removing, you know, part of my bone, uh, getting all of the garbage that was out. And they didn't know what it was, they were just cleaning it all up and cleaning it all out. They sent me for a gazillion tests, you know, and uh it it later came back to uh to say that I was suffering from a bone-eating staph infection that was aggressively eating me alive uh for four months, uh, that did a host of um permanent injuries, not only to my spine, but to my bladder, my kidney, my reproduction. Um, you know, all that stuff doesn't work. Um, you know, it's like when you got to cap yourself for for 10 years now. It's like, you know, you know, I look fine on the outside because I hold myself accountable, especially after the last five years, you know. Um, I I've really changed my diet and stuff like that. Um, but the first five five years, I was I I got up with well over 300 pounds after you know my surgery. Um but yeah, so that's what happened. You know, they found this crazy infection that was eating me alive from the inside out, and um yeah, it's that's an insane story.

SPEAKER_07: 27:16

So the choice program was what you were able to advocate for to be seen by an off off off VA provider. I'm trying to understand, is that like community care?

SPEAKER_05: 27:26

Yeah, so so a civilian did my surgery.

SPEAKER_07: 27:29

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_05: 27:30

So, and in uh it was downtown at uh Scripps Mercy Hospital. Um, and uh that's when you know, uh uh again, they thought that they were going in there to do uh a couple of disc replacements and uh based on your MRI, yep. Yeah, yeah, and some other stuff that I don't know, I I forget the medical terminology on the other stuff that was done, but again, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_07: 27:55

Rutine back surgery, right?

SPEAKER_05: 27:57

Yeah, I so I never had any trauma, so I shouldn't have had all these like weird things that were happening. So they're like, Well, you know, a lot of that back stuff is you know probably service related, and it just ended up rearing its ugly head at the same time as this infection. But there and the crazy thing about this is that they flipped me over a few times during the surgery. They had to cut me in the front and the back, and um, so they were looking for any signs of trauma on my body, they were looking for any cuts, scrapes, anything like that. They found nothing, and I didn't have anything, so there was no way for this crazy uh staph infection to get into my body. And so the infectious disease doctor, uh, about a month later, he says, The only thing that we can think of is that when you were overseas, you know, you've been to, you know, six different countries, you know, you could have, you know, drink some water that was bad, or you know, ate some food or something got into your body. Uh uh, staph got into your body, and what we believe happened is it went to your spine, it attached there, and it lived in a dormant state until it woke up. And then once it woke up, it it started um to attack me very, very aggressively. And um, you know, he said that I'm very lucky to even be alive because he said I should have died within the first 10 days of this because uh sepsis uh was very likely to set in. And then that's when it shuts down all of your organs in your body and you and you and you die. Uh so he says your body fought this thing off. Yeah, it did a ton of damage, uh, but you're definitely living on borrowed time. And uh yeah, that was, you know, and and of course, my wife's getting all this um news fed to her, you know, when I'm on the operating table, it's supposed to be a couple hours, and all of a sudden you're in there for hours upon hours, and then you know, more hours of all the testing and all the rooms that they were taking me to. I didn't know what was going on, so I was kind of like having some, you know, a lot of anxiety. And I bet. And uh yeah, so it was, I'm like, man, this is this ever gonna end, man. I you know, I was living the American dream, and then and then all of a sudden I'm in this nightmare that I can't get out of.

SPEAKER_07: 30:08

I will tell you, I really want to one day advocate for preventative MRIs. I learned when I went through my shoulder surgery that MRIs are something you have to fight for. I thought they were just standard. I didn't understand that that was something that people don't just do because they cost money. And it wasn't until I got that MRI for my shoulder that I finally figured out what was wrong with it and I was able to get shoulder surgery while on active duty. But just that small experience informed me that this is something that if you had had preventative MRIs, just like we have breast cancer screenings, just like we have prostate cancer screenings, other screenings, if we had full body MRIs, just imagine the things that we would catch. I know that's an aside, but I just wonder like you probably would have found out about this perhaps even before you had symptoms, if you had a preventative MRI.

SPEAKER_05: 31:09

There's not people that are gonna be living a day-to-day life that have no issues that you know seem to be doing okay, they're gonna show up and and and and just do an MRI for no reason.

SPEAKER_07: 31:19

That's what I mean. Yeah, but like we do that for breast cancer, we have to have mammograms every however many years. Why couldn't we have all get full body MRIs? I mean, right now I think people like Kim Kardashian does full body MRIs. I would like to think that this would discover things about our bodies that we we don't understand because we can't see those things, but but that's where the blood panels come in.

SPEAKER_05: 31:45

They could catch a lot of things on blood panels, and that's another thing, too. They would have caught this infection on day one in in January if they would have done a blood test. They they denied me a blood test.

SPEAKER_07: 31:56

Interesting, huh?

SPEAKER_05: 31:58

So, yeah, and this is all documented. I mean, they didn't give me a blood test, they they denied all diagnostic testing, and from there, it just was a slew of despair and being let down, and you know, just I mean, if there was one word to describe what we went through, it is egregious. Um, the because no nobody should have ever been through what me and my family went through. You know, um, you know, it's been 10 years now. I'm looking back at pictures, and I'm like, man, my kids were this big when this happened. Like they could have lost their dad right here. And knowing that uh it it really it's really hard for me, you know. And I and I go through I battle um every single day I battle. I live in physical pain. I I still have a lot of mental and emotional issues, severe anxiety. I have a ton of depression. This has even made me bipolar, you know, in in a way, because of the ups and downs. Like it's gonna be okay. And then, oh man, it's you know, more, you know, battling. And and then I think a lot of the bipolarness came really um when um is when I ended up going to Congress because uh, you know, you get rewarded and then boom, and then up here and boom. It's like the it's this uh mind mind game, and it's uh it's not fun.

SPEAKER_07: 33:27

It is from everything I've been told, and and what little work that I've seen get done in Congress, I have to say, I definitely can see where that would be so difficult. So let's go back to May. So you have the surgery finally, and then what happens?

SPEAKER_05: 33:45

Do you start to years of recovery? I I my pain never went away, right? So, um, you know, the pills were were all still there, and you know, it was still the the 40, and uh sometimes a little bit less, uh, depending on what my pain tolerance was that day. But I mean, I needed handfuls of pills to make it through the day, and there was still a lot of times I didn't even know if I would even make it through the day, uh, just because I'm you're sitting there and you were the uh the provider of your family, you were the leader of your family, and now you find yourself broken, uh, just trying to pick up the pieces of what had happened uh to you and your life. And um and I sat in that chair for years and uh didn't do much, didn't do anything. I I would go out on the weekends, yeah. I I was on a walker for a while, a lot of the times, and uh the only time I got out of house is to go watch my kids play their sports, and that was on a Saturday and a Sunday. So that's when I kind of felt uh alive. Um, and then I go right back to my chair, and uh a lot of times didn't even want to wake up, you know. I was just uh you know, you're just you're battling. You got you got you got one part of Brian in here who's this motivator who's like, let's go, let's go, let's go. You got this, and then another Brian in me that's you know, that's bat bat battling the all all three levels of the pain, you know. Like I said, the physical, the emotional, the mental, the trauma, um, you know, the you know, the continued surgeries, you know, because it wasn't just one surgery, I've had multiple. And you know, knowing that things don't work in your body, like you got to get home. You're like, oh my god, like this is like I I've gotta learn how to do a lot of weird different things. You know, I feel like I'm 90 years old, you know, and I was 38 years old when this happened, right? And I'm I'm 48 now, and uh, you know, like I said, it's been 10 years and lots of things have changed, you know. Um, but um, yeah, it it was tough and it and it still is, you know. Like I said, every day is a is a new day for me, and um, you know, every day, you know, I there's it comes with its challenges, just like anybody else in life, you know.

SPEAKER_07: 36:15

Sure, sure. So tell me about where the transition then went. This is sort of the chapter three of the story. Chapter one is sort of the background, chapter two is what happened, chapter three is how did this go from oh shit, I've got to just focus on my recovery and figure out a way forward to let me do some research and see if there was something they could have done differently. Like, how did you start to understand that there was this loophole that we'll we'll talk about here in just a little bit?

SPEAKER_05: 36:49

So we we ended up losing everything except for my home. I mean, I lost a rental home, I lost my business, my my videos. My my life savings. Um, we lost. I mean, we took a huge hit, huge. And you know, not not only all of our assets, you know, but future employment and everything else. And um bill bills were still coming in, and my we're an honorable family, and my wife was still paying all of everything. Um, and uh we she started to use a credit card, you know, and you know, it's and um yeah, we're some somebody's somebody said, Um, hey, you really need to um put in a tort claim uh for this because this seems like a really bad case of medical malpractice that took place, and and you know, that was after you know we had you know lost everything due to no fault of my own. And again, I'm not even thinking clearly here, and I'm still like trying to figure out like what what happened. It's like I I hit a brick wall, and so that's when we filed a tort claim within the federal government, and um, and then the uh on your own without an attorney, yeah, yeah, because uh my wife went in there and she goes, Hey, you know, we uh we have this uh problem, and here here's what happened. And so the VA was very, you know, apologetic, and they and they said, just fill this out and uh you know, just put down the amount and exactly what happened and attach all records, and uh we will reach out to you within six months. Well, right at the six-month mark, I get a call from the Office of General Counsel, and uh she stated that the and I quote, the VA uh failed to meet the standard of care, there was a breach in liability, and we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna settle your claim so you don't lose everything you've ever worked so hard for.

SPEAKER_08: 38:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 38:53

And uh we're like, oh my god, like you know, you're all happy.

SPEAKER_07: 39:01

There's you feel like you've got some kind of resolution at this point, some sort of peace of mind.

SPEAKER_05: 39:06

Okay, right. Just to say, okay, you know, we can breathe again, you know, we're not gonna lose this house, you know. But we've already lost everything else. Right. And so, um, you know, because that's all we had. And I mean, we even lost our family vehicle.

SPEAKER_08: 39:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 39:25

And uh, and that's tough. I mean, talk about taking a pride hit.

SPEAKER_07: 39:32

And um uh so they say you're gonna settle the claim.

SPEAKER_05: 39:37

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_07: 39:38

Nope. I'll help you out.

SPEAKER_05: 39:40

This is where my mind gets so screwed up. So they said they're gonna settle the claim, right? And um, so they uh they called and they said that um uh you're gonna be getting this uh payment within the next six months, because it usually takes a year from start to finish to do a Complete tort claim. That's with the investigation. That's with going through the Office of General Counsel. That's with looking at all the evidence, taking receipts in, this and that. Okay. So at the one-year mark, it was right before Thanksgiving, they drop a letter in the mail and they stated that they've reversed course and they are no longer going to be settling my claim because they found out that the clinician that was being held responsible by the VA was not a VA employee, but rather an independent contractor working behind the halls in the walls of the VA. Uh, these independent contractors have VA badges, they wear VA doctor's coats. Like you would never even know as a veteran that they even have independent contractors working in the VA. Um, because not nothing states that they're independent contractors.

SPEAKER_07: 40:48

And why just this doctor? Like why only this one person being held responsible?

SPEAKER_05: 40:54

So there were 12 clinicians total, I believe, in my case that all failed to meet the standard of care. One was an independent contractor. So what they did is they cherry picked uh this independent contractor to see their way out of, and this is what I believe. Um, you know, and this is my opinion.

SPEAKER_07: 41:10

And uh, and I basically, it's not really an opinion because I have, I mean, I have so much evidence here that points to exactly that they cherry-picked uh exactly who they were going to to pick as the fall guy, who they were gonna pin it on, who they they were gonna do an investigation of your standard of care, and then they were gonna say, Oh no, it wasn't all these other 11 doctors, it's just this one independent contractor.

SPEAKER_05: 41:34

Be yeah, they held her responsible for it, and uh because you know that was their way of seeing their way out of this uh claim, but they did it in a very fraudulent and criminal way, and this is where it really just takes it's like what more bad can happen to me? They um they dropped the letter and it just crushes us.

SPEAKER_07: 42:02

I mean, you were if you don't mind me asking, you were probably standing to get like six figures, seven figures. You were probably standing to get a substantial amount of money because that's what the stakes were, and they wanted a way out of that. Am I correct?

SPEAKER_05: 42:16

Yeah, it wasn't a whole hell of a lot uh compared to uh uh what had happened. I believe we we asked for two million one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars, and that was the pain, suffering, the loss, and everything. Very, very um uh uh uh I would say uh conservative.

SPEAKER_07: 42:33

Conservative. That was the one I was thinking.

SPEAKER_05: 42:35

Yeah, you know, compared to you know, you get a million dollars if you spill hot coffee on your, you know, right.

SPEAKER_07: 42:41

Two two million is a drop in the bucket for a an organization.

SPEAKER_05: 42:44

And I had, I mean, we've lost more more than that. I mean, we've lost in in the probably I mean high, I mean 10 million or more, uh, when it comes to, you know, the last 10, you know, for my business earnings and stuff like that. Sure. And you know, the home and the vehicles and the assets and the you know, the money I had in my savings account that we completely blew through. Um, and so they dropped this letter and they stated that um that the federal government had no um uh uh responsibility to pay this out. So we found out that the person that hurt you is an independent contractor, so you need to sue her in state court, um uh and and not the VA. And so I immediately called in an attorney and he laughed at me. He's like, dude, these guys set set you up to fail. Um, your state statute of limitations had just expired 48 hours ago. What? So so base so basically they were watching the clock and they knew that they were gonna hurt me from the get-go. And again, this is what I believe. And when that clock struck 12, they get that letter out, they say that they are no longer responsible, sue her in state court. They knew that my state statute of limitations were expired the day that they sent that letter. I get it two days later just to make sure that they're clean and clear. There could be no case brought against that doctor in state court, and that's how the VA protects their independent contractors.

SPEAKER_07: 44:24

And uh this is disgusting. This is so disgusting. Yeah, no, sincerely, yeah, you can't make it up, um, you know, and uh because you would have never known that they would pin it on an independent contractor, you would have never known how to sue in state court. So, what would that have been? That would have just been like a civil lawsuit against this doctor for medical malpractice for you to personally sue her. Could you have gone after her medical license? Maybe that comes into play later, but I know that some people do that, they complain to the state board and they try to go after the medical license, but you wouldn't have known to do that either because you didn't know they were going to pin it on one doctor.

SPEAKER_05: 45:02

The national practitioner data bank didn't do a thing about it, they said that you're completely out of your window now by two days to make a to make a complaint to the bo to the whatever the med licensing board. Couldn't do anything. I I couldn't do anything, and and and I brought this to a ton of high-profile attorneys in Southern California, and they were like, This is unreal. So they destroyed a great family, you know, and uh you know, and but I I say destroy, they they at the time they really destroyed a great all-american family, but my family never, you know, we we always stood together and we always had each other's backs. What what I mean by destroy is that they took my my my um bay uh basically my life away as I knew it. I had died. I died in January of 2016, and I've been trying to rebuild Brian for 10 years, and this is the best I've been, of course. Uh I get one one percent better every single day, but um, there's still a lot of things that will never be better.

SPEAKER_07: 46:10

Absolutely. So, what do you do next? Okay, you get this like devastating news, and and by the way, I want you to know too, anytime somebody tells a story like this with so much trauma, this this is is definitely hard to say. So I appreciate what you're doing. I would be in the same position.

SPEAKER_05: 46:26

I would my face starts to turn red when I start to think about all this stuff that that happens just because it's just so I mean, it's not just me that suffered, it's my children, it's my wife, it's everybody that loves me, you know.

SPEAKER_07: 46:42

And it's countless other people who've had the same experience, as you probably saw with legislation. It's countless other people who were also impacted by this loophole. I do know I have a friend who went through a uh sexual abuse by an independent contractor. It was one of her, it was during one of her CNP exams, and she encountered the same thing. The VA covered it up and wouldn't help her, and she ended up having to go after the contractor and was able to go after the contractor civilly and get some kind of cash settlement. But to this day, she was never uh compensated uh from the VA for what happened to her. So I I do know this is an issue or was an issue. So tell me what happens next. You're like, okay, I just got this terrible news, they're not gonna help me. They they've they've set me up to fail. And now what do you do?

SPEAKER_05: 47:36

Yeah, we were railroaded. Um, and so I called my congressman, Congressman Duncan Hunter, California uh 50th district, and uh told him what happened and talked to his uh to one of his staffers as well, and uh they said that that's unsatisf uh uh unsatisfactory or whatever. And and they said that um uh we're gonna write some letters to the VA and we're and we're gonna get this resolve. We're gonna help you because this is bad, man. This is like fraud, you know, it's criminal. Yeah, and um a few short weeks later, he was indicted on federal charges.

SPEAKER_07: 48:17

I remember.

SPEAKER_05: 48:18

And uh they he was forced out of Congress, and this was early on in that political cycle, and Gavin Newsome wouldn't hold a special election, so I was left on my own, had the worst case of VA medical malpractice in recent history without a sitting member of Congress to represent me in my own congressional district. So I was the only congressional district in the United States of America that didn't have a sitting member of Congress.

SPEAKER_07: 48:45

Wow. And I will tell you guys, I know this from experience. When you try to contact a congressman who does not represent you in another district, that's usually what they'll go always go back to is where are you registered to vote? They'll look to see. I've even been told they'll you will look to see if you've actually voted. And then sometimes they determine whether or not they're going to help you based on whether or not you voted. And I can't say that all the time, and I have heard of people who got helped by other congresspeople if they knew somebody. But many times when you're left without a representative, that's a real disadvantage. Okay, so now you're totally disadvantaged. You don't have a representative, you've been told no by the VA, you've been told no by the state. What do you do next?

SPEAKER_05: 49:27

Yeah, and then I don't have a congressman, right? I mean, literally every single freaking brick wall, everything that I mean, the arrows were just hanging out of me. I mean, I didn't have anything left to give. And again, at this point, I was like, okay, I'm gonna just take a lot of pills, I'm gonna do this. I don't, I don't know what to do. I'm done. I'm like, I think this is it for me, you know, and uh that's looking back at pictures and um what my mindset was, it it was in a very bad, dark place. You can't even make it up how that bad and dark it was, you know, because you go from living this life of you know fulfillment and you know, um, you know, life of providing and being a community leader and um you know, just representing, you know, your you know, like just adding um value uh to your uh to your community and and and being a part of your kids' lives and sports and all that stuff, and it's just gone, it's done. And and now we're like, okay, we're done. We we're gonna be homeless, right? I mean, come on, it's like, are you serious right now? I I became a homeowner 22, 23 years old, and um and now I'm like looking at okay, well shit, we don't even got a car to live in, right? And you know, because it took our suburban, you know, and uh so it's like oh boy, and so I stood up uh in the real true uh face of adversity, and I uh started to look at everything that they did, and I was doing this from my chair, I was doing a lot of um uh investigative work, I was doing a lot of looking at laws that were on the books and the federal tort claims, and you were researching, doing your own online research. Yeah, I was and I had a uh a pad of paper and I was just writing stuff down. I'd screenshot stuff, this and that. And so I was like, well, um if I you know, and so one day I got up and I went um and I had to go take my pills, and I just broke down over my bathtub, and I just basically, you know, started a cry, and I kind of filled that bathtub up with tears. And uh I just put it all into God's hands and I'm like, God do protect me because I'm getting ready to take on the federal government, and I'm gonna change this 74-year legal loophole that's destroyed the lives of veterans and their families for generations. And what happened to me, it it ends with me. Uh, the buck stops here, and that's the attitude that I had. And so I drafted my own bill. I uh formed an online legislative team, completely grassroots, and I put pen to paper and um I raised money to get to Washington, D.C. And I showed up and I delivered the very bill that I had drafted that would end this loophole that would give all veterans uh, you know, due process rights, uh, transparency and accountability once uh they suffered uh the fate of VA medical malpractice and gross negligence due to no fault of their own. And uh, you know, like I said, I delivered it to the very steps of the Capitol building where they make laws. And I walked those halls of Congress going door to door, just urging lawmakers uh to change this outdated law. Um and uh and I made a lot of traction really quickly. You know, I said, look, I don't have a member of Congress. This is one of the worst cases um, you know, in you know, in recent history. Uh it's definitely one of the most egregious to be eaten from from the inside out for four months and to go through so much trauma there uh alone and uh and then to have the financial stuff on uh stacked on top of it.

SPEAKER_07: 53:26

On top of that, yep.

SPEAKER_05: 53:27

The deck was completely stacked against us, and uh and uh again, I mean, talk about just absolute just you know, you just can't even there, I don't even think there's words for it.

SPEAKER_08: 53:39

No, there isn't it.

SPEAKER_05: 53:40

And so um I ended up getting some members of Congress that took that bill that immediately um uh introduced it. That was the first bill. Uh that was HR uh 70105, which is right here, that Congressman Dave Bratt introduced. And this is the first bill that I actually drafted, and they didn't really say, how did you learn how to write a bill?

SPEAKER_07: 54:03

That was one I I sometimes I'm writing down questions as you're going through the story. So that was my story, my question because people like right now, I'm I'm trying to draft a policy memo on the survivor benefit plan, and it's so difficult because I'm going through all these different instructions on the survivor benefit plan, and I don't even understand what the heck I'm reading half the time, yeah, and I have to rely on other people that understand this policy better than I do. So, my question for you is you didn't write a policy memo, you wrote a bill. So, how did you know how to even write a bill?

SPEAKER_05: 54:37

Yeah, it was it was written in complete 100 congressional form. I recruit recruited a uh teacher, a government teacher.

SPEAKER_07: 54:44

Oh, that's it.

SPEAKER_05: 54:45

And this became a class project uh for uh for his class.

SPEAKER_07: 54:51

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_05: 54:52

So they they uh so I gave them everything. Hey, this is what needs to happen. Yeah, um, he helped me uh draft it. The kids were learning this, you know, as they were kind of you know, they're kind of following, you know, everything. Uh once they uh we had everything, I mean, you know, from subsections, so cool.

SPEAKER_08: 55:11

What's it?

SPEAKER_05: 55:11

You know, to to the numbers to each line and you know, all the different provisions, A, B, C, D, you know, next page. I mean, I I mean it was congressional. I I did the work of right uh the congressman I didn't have you you did their work for them.

SPEAKER_07: 55:26

Did you did you did do you are you able to say the name of the teacher in the school? That's so neat.

SPEAKER_05: 55:31

Yeah, it was uh Magnolia High School in Texas, actually, and uh in and I'm in Temecula, California at the time.

SPEAKER_07: 55:39

So did you find them through the internet? Like just you talking about your case?

SPEAKER_05: 55:44

Yeah, he became a part of my grassroots team.

SPEAKER_07: 55:46

Yeah, it's so oh god, I got chills thinking about that because nobody knows how to write a law. Nobody.

SPEAKER_05: 55:54

Yeah, I I mean, you know, bills. I mean, I I I've I've done six of them now, you know, that have all been introduced in Congress by six different members in both chambers, Senate, and House. Um, and uh, you know, because every single time I I draft a new bill, we're going after more and more things to shut this, you know, um, this uh uh crime, you know, this criminal loop uh loophole down and uh just do a little bit at a time, you know, and uh and yeah, uh, you know, so that's what we did.

SPEAKER_07: 56:26

So you fly to you fly to DC. I'm sorry, I'm so curious about this because you're the first person I've ever had on my show that did this on their own without going to an organization. Like I said, I've had 200, and I said this before the call, 255 shows, and I've only talked to two people who, through citizen and initiative, were able to get a bill passed. And the first person I talked to was a staffer. Like she was she was the one who passed the uh bill in the NDAA or the provision to ensure that military members had a uh reimbursement or a stipend to move their pets. So she got five thousand dollars for people to move their pets overseas and two thousand dollars reimbursement in the joint travel regulations to move their pets stateside. But the only reason I really believe she understood how to do this is because she had worked as a staffer. So she knew the process. You didn't know the process.

SPEAKER_05: 57:19

No, I was what you would call a dumb marine who sucked in high school, uh, that went to alternative school in in middle school and didn't have a father growing up, and then would end up being a landscaper. Uh, so yeah, I was the perfect dummy. Um, and uh, but one thing about them is that I am an entrepreneur and I have a very um good, you know, entrepreneurial mindset, and I know how to to talk to people, I know how to, you know, bridge gaps if need be. And um, you know, and like I said, I you know, I've been talking to a lot of high profile people my whole custom landscape career because I was good at it. So I worked for a lot of people that were wealthy, and so I never was afraid to talk to them. A lot of people uh, you know, get intimidated by money and this and that. And and I fit right in. I was just me. I'd show up and I'd be dirty. I was very hands-on, and um, you know, I always, you know, uh just gave them my ultimate attention on every single job. I never I was never one of those contractors that would start 10 jobs at once and and give my customers 10 10 of my time. I I would do one job at a time, and I would really build that relationship uh with those customers, and that really, you know, was a good, sincere and genuine approach on, you know, thanking people, one for hiring me, and then two to make sure everything was getting done right and on time and on budget. And so I use that same technique um in my real life um uh uh experience to draft the bill and to get it to DC and to become a policy advisor because every single time that they're doing these things, they uh they would run them through me uh to make sure that the language and all that stuff that I wanted on there was good to go and this and that. And so yeah, yeah, I mean it's just crazy. And still to uh to this day, there's been I don't I have not gotten paid a uh a nickel for all of the the I mean I have I had over 10,000 hours in on this. I want to say it was 11,500 something, uh like 11,576 or something like that. Um before I had my first uh law.

SPEAKER_07: 59:49

Yeah, and I think this is a good time. I you probably don't know I did this, but I went ahead and got your broadcast, the two minute broadcast, and I'd like to play that for the audience and even my listening audience. Audience can see what other people had to say about you and the impact that this had. And then after the call, I'm going to ask you a question about how you knew how to walk the halls of Congress. That's another thing nobody understands how to do. So, but let's watch this video because I think this is a really good timing to put this in.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:18

Misdiagnosed, surgery delayed, veteran failures, and illegally found the colour.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:29

According to federal law, the VA is not responsible for medical malpractice committed by a contractor.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:37

Only once it was too late for him to be able to do anything about it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:02

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:03

When you hear about reasons, what the hell are you gonna do? You can take it. The alley bill is on its way to the commander-in-chief's death. President Trump will be signing this in the law.

SPEAKER_07: 1:02:20

Wow. I just feel like I get I get emotional watching that. Um how did you know? How did you know how to walk the halls of Congress? I hear about people doing that, and I have spent one longer period of time in DC during the confirmation to get Hag Seth now uh in into off into office of this of the Department of War. But that is my very limited experience with DC. So for those of those people who do who know who do not know what walking the halls of Congress really means and don't have a large advocacy group backing up their efforts, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:58

A lot of pain pills and anxiety mess had to go in my pockets because I was still very, you know, uh, you know, I I still had a very hard time walking. My best friend accompanied me, so every you know, a couple offices I need to sit. He brought a chair everywhere we went. We I had a chair. Um, and so we would just put it in the hallway and I'd sit down. But um so it was just plain uh tenacity, and I had to say, okay, I'm in the most divided Congress in the history of our nation. President Trump is the president. There's not a lot of bills being passed. I had to sit down at the table and influence lawmakers and staffers to do the right thing um to pass this law. Um, and it shouldn't, you know, it shouldn't matter who the president is, because I, you know, I said, look, we have 20.2 million veterans at risk that that are at risk right now. And typically when you have a veteran bill, it's you know it's all you know, it could be for women, it could be for certain men, it could be for certain wars, it could be for certain illnesses, and a lot of it is just for certain things. This is the entire veteran population in the United States of America that this protects, right? And and so when you have 20 million veterans in the country that are at risk of this, and it it was very high uh uh probability that they would end up running into this same loophole just because the amount of independent contractors that are in the VA and you know the amount of medical malpractice that happens in the VA. And so uh again, that's how they they brush all this stuff away. But how I walked the halls of Congress is I had to strategically align this. So I had a plan going into this. Um, my plan was to kill them with kindness because I wasn't in there to grandstand. I don't have time for this shit. I was broken and I still am very much so. Um, and I couldn't move on with my life, knowing that this was still hanging over me, this loophole. And I and I almost looked at it as if it was my civic duty to fix it.

SPEAKER_07: 1:05:28

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:29

Uh, because I I remember uh sitting in my chair just crying. I said, babe, how could they do this to people? Right. And and uh and so that's the approach I took.

SPEAKER_07: 1:05:40

I would I was going into Republican offices, I was going into Democrat offices, and and these offices take walk by, they take what I what we would call in the military a drive-by. Sorry, a drive they would take and so you would just get stopped by their frontline 20-something year old, I'm guessing, intern-like employees who would patiently listen to your issue, and then occasionally maybe you would see a congressman walking by. I mean, is this how it really goes down?

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:09

The first visit I had the first visit I had high-profile executive meetings with not only the VA um executives uh on the on the seventh floor at the VA on Vermont Street in Washington, DC, but I also had uh high profile meetings with law with lawmakers that were previously established before I got there.

SPEAKER_07: 1:06:28

Good.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:29

At that time, my story had already made national news and onto world news, and uh they knew that I was coming in a man on a mission and that I needed this bill to be introduced because I needed a champion. I needed a bill champion. I didn't have a congressman, so I had to let them know look, lit literally everything in my life has been like freaking railroading.

SPEAKER_07: 1:06:54

So you did a lot of this grassroots stuff before, getting onto the news, yeah, getting out there through the social media. I noticed that you now have like over a hundred thousand uh followers on your Facebook, which is why it's so unfortunate that my live stream right now doesn't work to Facebook, but we'll get this uploaded later. But you were able to gather all this grassroots advocacy support before you walk the halls of Congress so that you were able to set up those high-profile meetings. And then what happened after those, after that first visit?

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:23

Yeah, that yeah, that was only the first visit. So the first visit within 10 days after that, I had my first bill introduced. Okay, so that was coming out of Virginia, and um uh this bill would die in Congress, so I had to start all over again the next Congress. And the next Congress, I went in and I had another bill introduced that was HR 3813, which is right here, which is basically the same markup of HR 7105. That was the Republican bill, or at least that's what they called it, and you know, and it shouldn't be re uh be called a Republican bipartisan issue, yep, completely just non-partisan.

SPEAKER_07: 1:08:02

Well, that's what I I'm sorry, not even yeah, you're right. That's the better word, non-partisan.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:06

Yeah, and so the person that introduced it is a high profile member of Congress, so he was known to be a firecracker in Congress, so no Democrats liked him, so they weren't gonna be signing on to this bill. This is so disgusting, but that's when I had to take this bill and take it to a Democrat. I took it to a Democrat and said, it doesn't matter whose name is on this, he he's willing to step up to help. Okay, so so I need you to to come on board. They said, Okay, but we're not gonna sign on to his bill, we're we're gonna draft our own. So if you can go back to this member of Congress and ask him if he wants to sign on to our bill, he agreed. He said, Yeah, that's fine. We need to get this fixed. If it's not gonna be fixed over here, I'll co-sponsor the bill.

SPEAKER_07: 1:08:52

Nice.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:53

So so now it is, like you said, bipartisan. We have a democrat and a republican on on the bill, right? So now I've married I've married them up, and that bill was um right here. A HR 4526. So now I had action. I had action in the house. So and this is like five now, what, six visits into Washington, all um paid for by, you know, my my mom was giving me some money to go travel, my brother, um, my stepdad, um, you know, uh old customers of mine that that that found out about my story, like, hey, you know, I've got some airline points and this and that. And you know, so again, it was completely grassroots. And then I uh also had some challenge coins that I made, and people were donating like$25 or whatever they wanted to donate to my travel expenses and and costs and all that stuff. I'd be spending a week there at a time, and so DC is very expensive to go visit, and I was there on official business, literally, and um you know, as a uh, you know, as a citizen advocate, you know, as a veteran advocate, and so I had action in the house, and so now I had to go to the Senate. I went to the Senate and I was able to, and and by now I I have already earned my seat at the table. So when I walk into the office and say the tally bill, whatever, they knew what was going on, and so I had a senator uh do this bill 4883, which was a Senate companion to HR 40 uh 526 in the house. We're running out of time. I mean, this takes, I mean, we're over, you know, like three and a half years into this now.

SPEAKER_07: 1:10:41

And you know, this is not even gonna help you.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:43

This is all just no, no, nothing is retroactive. You can't go in there and and change federal law to turn around and to benefit from the law changes.

SPEAKER_07: 1:10:51

You were just you were just saying, okay, I don't I want to make sure this never happens to anybody after me.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:57

This was my closure. I couldn't move on with the rest of my life, and I was telling them this. Yeah, I cannot move on with the rest of my life until I resolve this issue, yeah, until this bill becomes law, and then once this bill becomes law, I can begin to live again because I've lost so many years of my life, right? I was sick for a couple of years, you know, in my chair, and then it took me a couple of years to get up and and to to start to to try to change my diet, to, to, to try to get one percent better every single day. It's kind of like two steps forward, 10 steps back, all while I was working this um uh congressional stuff every single day, every second, every minute, every hour of every single day. It was on my mind. I didn't sleep, I barely ate. That's why I lost weight again to try to take off that 300, you know, that I was up to.

SPEAKER_07: 1:11:53

So you basically had congressional PTSD. I mean, honestly, that's what this is. I mean, that's honestly what this is.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:59

My heart would always just be pounding out of my chest. I was afraid. People, you know, I of course I had friends that were reaching out to me and probably weren't get uh some of them weren't giving me the best what I wanted to hear. Like, you need to watch your back when you're in Washington, DC because there's this is like a what I was billion, yeah. This is like a billion-dollar deal that you're trying to do. I mean, this is a lot of money.

SPEAKER_07: 1:12:23

I have a lot of paranoia. I would think that I was being spied on. I would think that the VA, like, I don't know, like my mind just goes everywhere when these guys that's another reason I didn't like being in DC. I didn't, I just felt survey, I wasn't surveilled, but I felt like surveillance could be very, very possible there.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:40

I didn't care because I was in there operating in good faith. Yeah, you really uh and I was going up against guys that were operating in bad faith. And you know what? I should have died within 10 days of that anyway. So, what are they gonna do? They're gonna come hurt me. And I already pledged this that if this kills me, um, I'm gonna see this through. So I didn't care. And I know a few a few times we were being tailed. My good buddy was like, dude, that guy's been behind us for you know for two days, and he would walk into every restaurant that we were at. He'd walk into, I mean, we even tried tried to do some weird shit one time, and he was there, and we and we caught him coming back around. You know, two Marines were like, Yeah, let's go ahead and we're gonna do this. We're gonna go into here, we're gonna come right out.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:24

There's too much money at stake, and there's a lot of people who would have to pay out, and a lot of uh license, I mean a lot of doctors that would not want your case to become law. So we're at the point now where you've got the companion bill, you've got the house bill, you're like, one of these is gonna make it. Then what happens?

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:43

And then about a month later, they had a uh closed set uh session. It was one of those midnight congresses, you know, it was one of those late night deals. And at I want to say it was like 12:30 in the morning, uh, they ended up uh passing my bill in the Senate because before that, sorry, I'm all over the freaking place here.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:06

Don't worry about it again. I just appreciate you sharing this story.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:09

Oh, yeah, no, and I haven't told it in a while. I um so my bill passed in the house like a couple months before that. That's when I had action in there. And then uh 4883 was uh shortly introduced after that. That was my whole Senate companion because they knew that okay, look, if we got this through the house, we're gonna end up getting it through the Senate because the house was the harder one, you know, at the time to get through. And um, so it it gets to the Senate, and I have a Democrat and I have a Republican. So I recruited two guys that I thought would be good because I basically picked everybody for these bills. I'd say, look, I pick you, and this is the reason why I want to use you as a vehicle for this bill.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:52

I think you would research these people and you would say who is the most likely to care about this issue.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:57

Well, not care. Who would have enough influence to do the right thing to bring people together? Nobody really cares. I I mean, look, let's just get that shit.

SPEAKER_07: 1:15:06

Let's be real. Yeah, let's be real.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:07

Yeah, yeah, and and there may be a couple guys here. And I learned more about politics than I ever wanted to know. Trust me, I didn't choose this job, it chose me. And this job has left me with high anxiety, high depression, the bipolarness of oh my god, I got a bill introduction. You know, like when you work so hard every single week, at the end of the week, you're rewarded with a paycheck. I never had a paycheck for the thousands of hours of work I've done. So I had no rewards. My reward came when a bill was introduced in Congress. That was a reward. And so you would go from here to boom to here immediately. Oh my god, oh my god, we got it. And then a week would go by, two weeks go by, three a month, two months, a year, and then you're back down here.

SPEAKER_08: 1:16:04

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:05

And then you got another bill introduction, you're up here. And it's the constant mind, it doesn't stop. When you're trying to do something, when you're trying to so hard to do something, because all you know is that I can't live again until this is done, it freaks you out because like you just keep going. I was in the ER three times, panic attacks. But I was having a heart attack twice uh because of all the stress and anxiety and everything that was brought upon because of this. Because I was so angry inside, but I couldn't show my anger.

SPEAKER_07: 1:16:40

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:40

Because if I showed my anger, these bills wouldn't get passed.

SPEAKER_07: 1:16:45

Right. So you had to just keep fighting.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:47

Kill them with kindness. When I earned that seat at the table, I had to, I had to, I had to be a congressman. I had to be a congressman. I had to be a congressman that was gonna build a bridge to say, look, this is this is what we need to do. And uh again, having enough uh salesmanship or or whatever you want to call it to get this done to become a not only now an experienced uh lobbyist, but a self-taught uh lobbyist, a self-taught uh guy who can uh uh put pen to paper and draft legislation and know how to conduct these meetings and use the right language. You have to speak like them. It's kind of like in the VA, they have certain language, they have certain language in Congress too. You got to put things together the way it's packaged there. If you can do that, if you can learn to kind of manipulate the system, you'll be successful in that. But I already knew the outcome before I went into any one of my meetings. I knew exactly what was gonna be said and what were they and what they were gonna say because I would again, every second, every minute, every hour of every single day, all I had to do was time to think about this. I would play out the scenarios in my head, I knew what was gonna happen. I went in there, and every single time I was, I mean, I hit a thousand. I knew again, I don't know how how I did it, but uh, but I did. I knew exactly what they were gonna say. I I knew when we were looking at these bills what the compromises would be. I would already check it, check it, and I'm like, I guarantee they're gonna have a problem with this and this, they're gonna like this. So I already had a compromise. I'm like, well, what what if we did this and I had you know my folders and all that stuff, so we were able to get this stuff done fairly quickly once we had that Senate bill, and then boom, that's when they ended up passing it. But everything in Congress is all it's all strategic and being liked, you know. Like I had to let them know that there's been so many veterans uh you know for generations that have experienced this, right? And you know, and uh I I told them that we can't have a military knowing that like when you get out of the military, this is how you're gonna be treated. You're gonna be thrown to the wolves.

SPEAKER_07: 1:19:09

Like I was you're not gonna know who's a contractor, you're not gonna know who's a VA doctor. And I'm sure during this period of time, you were also hearing from others who had been negatively impacted by medical malpractice from a contractor. You were probably hearing about other claims. You were probably also at the same time hearing from maybe doctors that, or I'm sorry, a a a lobbying firm that represents these contractors. I'm sure they were fighting you. AFGE and a and a po is that what they're called? The FGE?

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:43

AFGE, American Federation of Uh Government Employees.

SPEAKER_07: 1:19:48

Got it. So they were probably uh opposing this bill. Oh, yes, when you would have a hearing, did you ever get tell called in for a congressional hearing and did you test?

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:58

We had a hearing. Oh, we had a hearing. Yes.

SPEAKER_07: 1:20:00

Okay. And did they testify and you testified? Just out of curiosity.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:05

We did it on co uh it well, this was over COVID. Again, I had every single time we would advance, yes, there would be something crazy. And so we were so close to getting this. Yeah. And then we had COVID.

SPEAKER_07: 1:20:18

Okay. So COVID happens.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:20

And then I still got it through. Yeah. And and so the uh the congressional hearing was on, you know, was during COVID. And uh when the VA uh uh stood up to testify, uh the first question was answered by a Democrat lawmaker and their video cut out. And once their video uh cut out, they didn't come back. And he's like, that right there is proof of what these guys are and who they are, and who's hiding behind the veil here. And um, and he went off. He uh he absolutely was irate, and you know, that's that's obviously that hearing.

SPEAKER_07: 1:20:59

I'd love to watch it, you know, and that's all it really took, you know, was you know, show showing who these guys really are, and and um because the hearings are transparent, I will say that in some ways, not transparent in terms of information, but they're transparent in terms of intent. Yeah, so I really encourage people to watch congressional hearings, and here's why watch what questions are being asked by the congressmen, watch who they choose to testify. All those things are strategic, in my opinion, and are pre-planned. And Brian, you could tell me if I'm wrong, but these are just an observation. I've watched one on VA disability, I watched one, the I've watched quite a few, one on sexual assault in the Coast Guard. And every time I watch, I I watch the the uh confirmation hearings for Pete Hageseth, watch them put up the you know the pretty poster board in the background behind all these legislators. And every time I watch them, I think these are just press conferences for the particular legislators or for the people who are testifying, this is their press conference to get free audio visual, to get their sound bite for the Instagram reels. And I don't know even if the hearings really serve the public. I don't feel like they do, other than the fact that you should watch them and you should analyze them and dissect them for what they really are doing. And so it's nice to hear that you did have. Is that was that the only hearing that you had for the bill, or did you have quite a few of them?

SPEAKER_05: 1:22:26

Yeah, no, that was it. You know, it's just all political grandstanding. You know, they're there to to grandstand to let their constituents know that you know they're they're really fighting for them and you know, to send them money. Because look, in the in in in in the house, it's horrible. Two-year terms, you you could never get anything done. And and I learned that really quick. You have one year to do work, and you have another year to um uh uh to campaign, and so when you're campaigning, is when you're starting to put all these bills out that you know are gonna be dead bills in another year. The only thing you're trying to do is appease your people. See, I I introduced this bill because I care about my people in this district. Oh, god, and I'm looking out for you, and I'm your voice, and there's nobody else that's gonna bring this bill to the floor, but and they know that this is a dead bill instead on arrival. You know, they say uh Washington, DC is a place where bills go to die.

SPEAKER_07: 1:23:21

Well, everybody should be watching these hearings. It upsets me that people aren't dying. You know what? All these YouTubers that want to just fight with one another back and forth and do these manufactured feuds. Why don't they instead dissect a congressional hearing? Because I do really believe they have the media skills and the literacy skills to look at these hearings and to actually call on our lawmakers not to grandstand during these hearings, to actually ask substantive questions. I have seen hearings where the witnesses gave answers and then the legislators weren't listening to the answers, and then they just asked the same freaking questions that the witnesses said. Or I've seen ones where they pontificate about issues that had absolutely nothing to do with what the hearing was about because they know, like, oh gosh, I get free audio visual for my Instagram reel. And so it's just it really, really, really breaks my heart. So, okay, so you get through the hearing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:24:15

There, yeah, I can tell you that they don't do that. Look, you got to understand, this work here is exhausting, it it will break you, and you know, and you have to stay so mentally strong, and it's so hard to do when you're in your weakest and most vulnerable time in need. There, there isn't this isn't what you would call shock content. My story would be considered to be shocking, right? But right, the two-minute clip, of course. It's not shock content, right? You know, when it comes to you know, all the you know, news and the media and me uh applying pressure and keeping my story in the news and you know, trying trying to force Congress, and this is the sad part. I had to force the hand of Congress to do the right thing after they have failed to change this law for 74 years. So for 74 years, they had opportunities to do this, but yet it took a citizen advocate to come in to not only one write the the bill, draft the bill, deliver the bill, lobby the bill, and see the bill all the way through. Because if I wouldn't have done that, they wouldn't have done it. No, I applied pressure and I ensured that we were gonna get this thing done so I can move on with the rest of my life again, because I was so eager to live again. And I was saying, I I lost so many years of my life, and here I am now 10 years. I'm still I'm still talking about this stuff. I I still have to do it every single day, every single time you cath yourself, every single time you go to the doctor. I got to go four times a year just to give blood every quarter, because my blood is, you know, they gotta always check it, always check it, always check it. I gotta go do that. It's like literally, you know, it's like now I'm 48. I live in the hospital, I live in the doctor's office, and and this has been this way for 10 years. You know, I still have to take about, I don't know, about anywhere between 12 to 15 pills a day, you know, and and you know, out of the, you know, I think it's like eight pill uh pill bottles these days, uh sometimes more, depending on what uh what I'm going through at the time. But you know, it's just um it's just in it's just insane. But yeah, these guys know uh exactly what needs to be done, but they don't want to do it because they always have got an ace in the hole. God, I dude, I'm just getting bright red the more I go, just because it just it's frustrating.

SPEAKER_07: 1:26:54

It's frustrating.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:56

It just um the we're not being served.

SPEAKER_07: 1:27:00

We're not being served by this ultimately. And yeah, you your story is a case example of why people give up and why they walk away. The majority, I mean 99.999% of people would have would have walked away and would have given up. It reminds me when Clarence Anderson shared his story about losing custody of his daughter, and he could have lost custody of his daughter and stayed out of jail or military brig for 42 months. But instead, he felt so strongly that his wife was not the suitable parent, his ex-wife. So he said no. She had a history of domestic violence already, and he wanted full custody, and he thought that his case would get dropped at court martial. He thought he would be, he thought he, the judge, judge alone, would acquit him, especially when they found out that there was bribe and uh bribery involved, or they tried to bribe him by saying, I won't testify in exchange for full custody, and that wasn't enough. And then even when they lied on the stand and committed perjury, that wasn't enough. Yeah, so I think people don't understand that we're Brian, we're we're fighting a losing system, we're fighting a system that was set up by design for the common person to lose.

SPEAKER_05: 1:28:12

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_07: 1:28:13

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05: 1:28:14

Yeah, yeah, for for for the common person to lose and for the attorneys to to always win. Because they're all in cahoots, you know. You in and if you understand that, you understand the game, you do, and the game, and that's where you know I I I know again. I know everything. Again, I learned too much about politics a lot more than I ever wanted to. I always had a lot more faith, I think, in the government before I got hurt, and then once that happened, I just see how how uh scandalous uh you know they truly are at so many different levels. Um, you know, even though, yes, I went in there and I was successful, and we got this done in under five years, uh, but still it it it took so much out of me. I didn't have anything left to give. I was literally done. And if this wouldn't have gotten passed when it did, I don't know where I would be today. I really don't know. And and the reason why that this lasted for such a long period of time is because it's it was bulletproof. The way this law was written was absolutely bulletproof. In 1946, the U.S. government was working in good faith, they didn't have a lot of government employees, or no, they had a lot of government employees, right? And so they're like, you know, we need some uh some specialists to come in and do certain things. And so we were like, okay, well, these are independent contractors. We're gonna come in, we're gonna pay them under a different umbrella. Uh, but we're gonna be transparent about this, we're gonna let people know if there's anything wrong, whatever. You know, this is on the independent contractor and not the VA employee. And everybody knew this. Um, because, you know, like the the government says, we are not responsible for making any payments for any uh negligence or malpractice if it's committed by it by a civilian. So, you know, so if it's a a a government problem, we'll we'll take care of it. But if it's an you know a civilian problem, well, they soon started to see, oh wow, this could be very profitable. And so every year, every year, every year, they started putting more independent contractors into the system. What does that do? It waters down the medical malpractice numbers in the VA. So back, you know, in in the 70s and 80s, their malpractice numbers were a lot higher, and then all of a sudden they start to shrink because now they're blaming it all on independent contractors and they see their way out of these suits. Because if it didn't, even though it happens in the VA, if they pin it on an independent contractor, the malpractice never happened.

SPEAKER_07: 1:30:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:50

It never happened. And in my case, yeah, and in my case, like literally my case, it went to the news, it did this. They came out and claimed uh responsibility on print and on TV, and they still railroaded me. Wow, so so you gotta think this never nobody has ever, ever, ever stood up to this just because it is it it will kill you. Yeah, literally, it it takes so much out of you. You don't have anything left. You you've already suffered uh uh severe uh uh uh you know uh medical issues, you know, at the hands of the VA. And a lot of the times you die because of the malpractice. So the veteran isn't even around. So you think that the that the spouse or the uh living relative of this veteran is gonna have the stamina and the energy to step up to the plate and do this work? No wait again, it this is why it stood around, it was around for such a long period of time. And I remember Senator Heller, he came up to me one day, he's like, Tally, dude, this happened to the right guy, man. He's like, dude, I don't it's like I I don't I don't um wish this on anybody, but if this was gonna happen to somebody, man, they definitely man, they picked the wrong guy, but the right guy, the right guy that could actually have the tenacity to push it through. Yeah, and I don't even know how I did.

SPEAKER_07: 1:32:23

I mean, since you did, you did, and I think that that's the success story in all this as as we try to bring this to bring, you know, land land the plane and bring this to a close. Yeah, you did get the bill passed, and what happened after is is our contractors now like what's what's the result of this bill? Is because a lot of bills that get passed, they get passed and then it doesn't get enforced, or they find out they've got to rewrite the bill a million more times because it didn't really do what they thought. So now I'm curious because I I know a little bit about lawmaking from just this state bills on puppy mills, they tried to abolish the sale of cats and dogs from uh high-scale commercial breedings and only source from rescues. So, you know what they did? All the all the pet stores in California, this is California, uh, they decided to the the commercial breeders started nonprofits. They started their own fake nonprofits and set and called them rescues, and then they were seller selling from these fake rescues, and then the fake rescues would be listed like on the placards outside the pet store, and so you know, this is how I got my start in advocacy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:33:33

I would shell little shell companies, little shell game, little shell game, and I'm sure they're still doing it.

SPEAKER_07: 1:33:39

Like I'm not part of that cause anymore, but I'm still for the states that cannot source from commercial breeders from commercial uh dog sellers, because of course these commercial breeders are puppy bills, they're big, large-scale breed, you know, because the USDA doesn't do anything about it, they do announced inspections and all these other things, so that's how they would do it. They would just start up fake nonprofits. So that's my experience with you can pass a bill, but oh, there's little ways around it if they don't want to do it. So, what happened after the bill was passed?

SPEAKER_05: 1:34:11

So um the the language is uh again, what happened to me is again, they they led us down this garden path that everything was going to be okay. And then at the one year mark, they said, oh, independent contractor, right? So the way that the law is now is that once a veteran files a tort claim, the VA has 30 days to let the veteran know in writing what the what the employment status is of the said clinicians on the form. So if you have 12 clinicians on this form that you listed as folks that you believe failed to meet the standard of care and are responsible for the gross negligence and the malpractice, those employment statuses must be released. So it gives you uh an avenue to go down. If they say, now you can't double dip on this. So if they say, well, you have you know five independent contractors and five uh VA employees who failed to meet the standard of care, you've got, okay, do what do I sue the federal government or do I take this out to the uh civilian sector and and and and sue the uh the uh uh company uh uh that these independent contractors are are are working under, the umbrella that they're working under. And so they have 30 days to do that now. So they can't withhold crucial information uh that uh that would uh be uh substantial in forming a decision on your case. Um, and also too, um this is going to be it's also posted, you know, so it's very, you know, so it's very visible. It's and then there's a lot of other stuff too. Um, you know, the importance of securing uh legal counsel. Um, and um again, it's mainly the employment status because if we would have known that within 30 days, everything would have been changed and there's no loophole there. There would have been accountability and there would have been correct, there would have been compensation from that because they said we failed to meet the standard of care. We are settling your claim. They didn't say, Yeah, you know, we have a problem with this number, we need to go lower, or you know, or we're gonna settle the the set amount was going to be settled. They thought that was fair uh a hundred percent. But that's easy to say when you know that you're gonna screw the guy that you're talking to with the six-month mark and six more months when you drop that letter because the outcome has already been determined. That's just yeah, and that's where the criminal intent uh came into place. The this is the language I needed to literally explain to lawmakers. That's a and that's a nuance. And not only just say it happened, but to show receipts. Yeah, here it is. Yeah, here it is, here it is. Yeah, and and so that's how I had to force them. I had to I had to force them to act in good faith. I had to go do their job for them and see it all the way through. Wow. And then, you know, there's other stuff here too in the in in the bill. It's other, you know, just boring stuff, if you will, but it's all there to to protect veterans, uh, to ensure uh uh transparency and accountability once the veteran has fallen victim to VA medical malpractice. Even if he or she dies, this information uh will be sent to the next of kin or will be sent to uh the surviving spouse, uh widow, child, aunt, uncle, whoever is direct direct directly involved to that veteran. Um, you know, because some are young, some are old. Um, and so, and like I said, most of the time they they end up passing away uh because of it. So they need, you know, so now they've got you know a a crutch, if you will, to stand on, or at least a a little bit of a leg left to say, okay, well, we could at least do uh do this, you know, because of the the the malpractice, you know. So I mean there's a lot there to it.

unknown: 1:38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 1:38:31

That's wonderful. So during the part, wonderful that you could cut this to the finish line. Uh there was during the news our news uh coverage, I did see that you had an attorney. Did you retain that attorney later on because things got so overwhelming? Or did you did the attorney join pro bono? Or how did you how did you manage to get an attorney throughout this process?

SPEAKER_05: 1:38:53

So the first attorney was a Virginia um uh uh attorney, uh medical malpractice attorney. My first bill came out of Virginia, so I had a lot of news coverage in Virginia. He wanted to step up and help out and and and and try to be some sort of, and he was also a state legislator, got it, and so he he saw this as man, this guy got railroaded, he drafted a freaking bill, and he's got and he has action in that, you know.

SPEAKER_07: 1:39:20

So he saw a story, he saw a story.

SPEAKER_05: 1:39:21

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was all over the TV and radio there in in Virginia and in DC in the Beltway. Got it. And so um, so he came to me, and uh, and then after that, I had the most high pro profile veteran attorney uh contact me to try to take my case to the Supreme Court. Um, and uh we had a lot of meetings there, and we talked to a lot of former um uh retired uh federal uh uh judges. I mean, like we she brought in a lot of firepower and they were dissecting everything, and just because the way that Law was written so well back in 1946 to only protect the government and the way that this was all uh broke broke down, they they they couldn't take it there. And they tried, they thought that hey this is 100% worthy, man. This is bad. Uh this is horrible what happened to this guy. And so um, but they but they had no they they didn't believe that it would go uh go anywhere. And the amount of money that is needed to to acquire counsel to do something like that, even though she was completely pro bono, just trying to help me out. And um, you know, it's it's same same attorney as you know, Vanessa Guillen and a lot, a lot of other, you know, high profile uh you know cases that happen in the military and in the veteran community. And with all of her assets, they still were like, damn, we can't get this to federal court, we can't get this to to the supreme court, hell, we can't get this to state court.

SPEAKER_07: 1:41:08

You know, I've done one case on the Supreme Court and it's about the Ferris doctrine. I tried to uh a veteran who was on active duty, he was a national guard part-time. I mean, he was in this like strange dual status role, and he tried he had routine back surgery that ended up in a paralyzing incident. And his wife, thankfully, was a paralegal. So all I can guess is that she had a lot to do with his ability to get counsel, and they did a petition up to the Supreme Court. This is just last year, and went all the way up and was struck down. And that is why the Ferris doctrine, for those of us on active, well, I'm not on active duty anymore, but for those people who are still on active duty, they have no redress if a medical malpractice incident happens, if they're poisoned, if they're even sexually assaulted. I mean, there's it, it is just absolutely insane to me that there is no process of redress. But this kind of goes back to, like as I do in many of my shows, about the military justice practice. If people knew when they were signing up their sons and daughters to join, how little protections they have, I really believe that not so many would join, but unfortunately, we don't have the freedom of speech that we think we do with the big tech censorship to really put out these these stories. And that's where people like you and me, which I will now fully land our plane and say, what are you doing today, now that the bill has been passed, now that you have advocated on such a high level, what are you doing today to help veterans?

SPEAKER_05: 1:42:50

I become a kind of an advocate for so many. I have a website, and uh, you know, in in any time people are going through a lot of weird stuff, they they always find me because they probably start Googling a lot of things, and I'm like the poster boy for like VA medical malpractice and gross negligence. So they'll see me, they'll go to my website and they'll send me emails. And this is what has been going on for for years now. And I mean, even here, yeah, and and so it it's hard because it's kind of hard to heal yourself when you're always uh um you know uh peeling off the scab. And so I do this, you know, there's no fanfare here, there's no pay. Um, and I I've really helped out a lot of veterans over the years. Uh, they they tell me what happened to them, and I say, look, I'm not a I'm not a lawyer, uh I'm just a guy. I'm I'm I'm you basically, and uh that that that's been through it. And I say, hey, look, I can't give you legal counsel, but but I could be your friend. And so I'll say, if I were you, I would do this, you know, as a friend or whatever. Um, but kind of just be there to kind of help steer them in in the right way, just because they're everywhere you go, the the majority of the time the these veterans are gonna hit brick walls. Um, and um it it's just a travesty on you know what happens. And I I I think the part that really hurts me the most that I'm very disheartened about is that when you're in the military, they they they knock into your head, hey, you know, serve with honor, you know, serve with commitment, you know, and and integrity, you know, courage, you know, like be be a good citizen, you know, be be just a good steward, you know, um, be brave, be, you know, just help your fellow Marines, you know, help your fellow neighbors. And then they don't practice what they preach. It's it's uh it's just so crazy, you know, but it's but it's not just individual people, it's the veil. It's what's behind the veil. It's the system, the thing. Like, yeah, it's the yeah, it's the bureaucratic system, and and it's it and it's horrible.

SPEAKER_07: 1:45:22

Oh no, it's not helping any of us. I mean, I go to a class right now to try to learn how to run for Congress as a veteran, and we talk about it all the time. Like it's a it's a shell game, it's a it's a pay-to-play system, and unless you use your own personal funds and you know somebody, or you have a high-profile donor who's willing to pony up a bunch of cash to get you in office, and then you will owe that profile donor or that high profile donor's organization. I mean, what's it's just it's it's it's a very tough system to feel like you're making a difference, and that's why, just like you, I get very disillusioned sometimes. I get very depressed. I say, Why am I even doing this? Why do I still do a podcast?

SPEAKER_05: 1:46:06

But the thing is, uh yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_07: 1:46:08

It is hard. It is. I I I tell myself that all the time. I have these like discussions with myself, like, when am I going to stop podcasting? Because at some point you just get upset. And I think the reason I wanted to bring your story to my my audience is because the one thing that you can take away from this is all the people that you've helped and all the people that you met on a personal individual level who were impacted by your story, who received some inspiration from your story. And that's what I tell myself about all this social media stuff. I say, you know what? At the very least, I'm letting people like yourself get heard, get their story out there. Maybe somebody else has a similar story, and we can just exchange notes and we can all say this system needs to change. And I'll I'll die, I'll die trying trying to fix the system and trying to, you know, that's how I feel. Like I'll die, I'll die trying, just continuing on to talk about how bad our big tech companies are in censoring these kinds of conversations, because I know they do, and not being able to educate the public about context and all these media military influencers who are not out there for the public good, but they're out there to get clicks and to get likes. It's boring.

SPEAKER_05: 1:47:23

They want they want the soap opera.

SPEAKER_07: 1:47:24

They want they want the soap opera, and the soap opera is not what needs to fix, needs to change. And what's what this is the bigger problem. So as we like are wrapping down this call, I I do want to ask you, was there anything else uh that you wanted me to talk about it with your podcast or with anything you're doing today, or anything else that you want me to talk about?

SPEAKER_05: 1:47:46

No, I mean, you know, other than just you know, um I I wasn't gonna say something, but I I totally totally forgot what I was gonna. Oh, so when veterans reach out to me, you know, and I've had to cut back on a lot of this because it it just it it's really hard on me because in order for me to effectively help somebody, I have to put myself in those shoes. And I've done that so many times over the years. I mean thousands of emails um have come in. I still get tons every month. And um, and I read every one and I and I respond to every single one, and you know, and they want me to do a bill for them, they want me to do and I read their story, and I'm like, oh my god, this is horrible. And it brings me back to mine every single time. It brings me back, it brings me back, or I I I live in their shoes, and it really brings out a lot of I do the same thing when I hear these stories. Yeah, yeah, because I I become a part of it, and so that's how I'm like, you know what, dude, like you need some help, like do this or do that, or you know, like veteran suicide's at such a high rate, and you know, there's you know, not a lot of guys that you know that like to talk about that, but it's you know, it's the elephant in the room, you know, and it's like it needs to be talked about, and um, you know, because it's cases like this that do lead to to veteran suicide and sure taking too many pills or um you know, going you know, you know, to to to other drugs and alcohol and abuse, and you know, all of a sudden you just tap you just tap out because it's just too much, just too much, and doesn't mean that you're not courageous, it just means that you you've had enough in you in your eyes that you you've done everything that you pot that you possibly can do. And you know, there's a lot of custody issues, there's battle issues, you know, there's like everybody has their own little problem. So when I get into helping somebody again, those scabs come off, and it's like I can never heal me. I I can never kill me. So I've had to really pull back a lot. Makes sense, you know, on this. Um, be uh because it's just so much, you know, and everyone's like, Oh, well, you know, you need to start your own nonprofit. You need to, I'm not looking for a paycheck here, you know. I I now get you know a small amount of money that that takes that can help you guys live every single month. Um, and and I'm able to continue to do a lot of uh volunteer work um in in in the community, and then that's how I have my podcast. You know, when I started the podcast, you know, I do a lot of you know veteran stories, and you know, I just do a lot of stories that are in the news or you know, whatever it may be, you know, whether it's politics or if it's a success story or you know, a story of um perseverance or resilience or getting words out there on certain things or uh to raise awareness on certain things, you know, whatever it may be. Um, and uh look at that guy right there. That's Bradley Grutzner. Okay he he took his own life about six months after that podcast. He was doing so good. Wow, he was doing so good and rebuilding his life, lost his arm in combat, and his mom calls me after he took his life and says, Thank you so much. This is the only podcast he did, and this is the only thing I left have in my that I have left of my son, you know, to just to see him and to hear him speak, you know, and so you know it's and and unfortunately, you have a lot of this, you know. I've had several guys on my show that have take taken their own lives afterwards, um, you know, a year down the road, a year and I've only been doing this for three years.

SPEAKER_07: 1:51:22

Jesus, you have 319 episodes. This is outstanding, and you have a lot of the same guests I've had on, Brian. You've had uh Stuart Scheller, I've had him on my podcast. I haven't had Eddie Gallagher on, but I know of very a lot of mutual friends with Eddie, and I'm very familiar with his story. Yeah, so and and you're really just I mean, you're having some really heavy hitters on this show and some people that are really trying to do good work in the community. And I think this is wonderful. And I highly recommend I'm showing to my listening audience a link to Brian's podcast. It is called Today with Tally, and you can find it on Brian Tally, B-R-I-A-N, Tally T A L L Y dot com. And then you just go to where it says podcast, and you'll see a lot of good conversations. In fact, I think I saw just recently you had on a congressional candidate who's running against Dan Crenshaw.

SPEAKER_05: 1:52:18

Yes, uh Steve Tove. Uh he's looking a primary Dan Crenshaw.

SPEAKER_08: 1:52:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_05: 1:52:23

Uh here in Texas. Uh Dan Crenshaw, I I I live in Texas now for you guys out there. I know we start the uh the story started in in Southern California, but you know, after we lost everything, we needed to start over. We need to come to a place where um it is more affordable uh to start over. So we came here in 2020 and uh been here now almost six years, and um it's been a good move. Texas has been good to us, and um, and uh uh Dan Crenshaw is my congressman. And so uh Steve is a friend of mine, and uh he's also a Texas state uh uh houseman. And uh there's a lot of folks here that I I don't know what people's political view uh views are, but you know, mine I think that Dan Crenshaw um hasn't been doing a very good job, and that uh that we would end up getting better representation uh from Steve Toph. And so um, you know, I he's a friend of mine, like I said, I called him and said, hey, you know, let's you know do a podcast and come on and wonderful, talk about some agenda ideas and items to, you know, one to you know to help you know save the Texas two and the state of Texas, uh, you know, as well as you know, uh, you know, ideas in the country, you know, they say down goes Texas, down goes the nation. So Texas is on the front lines of uh, you know, the the battle, you know, you know, of the you know, of the country, you know, and uh there's a lot going on, uh, and uh there's a lot of moving parts and pieces. Um, you know, again, I just want a safe and secure America, me too. Uh that is free and prosperous. I have four children, and and it does scare me uh what the future uh does uh does hold in this country, but I do believe that we have uh enough good people um in this country that will stand by her and and guide her. Um and and and I I think we're gonna be okay. But the problem about that is that veterans, uh, we have far too many veterans that are taking their lives every single day. And so every single time we lose 22 to 40 veterans every single day, our national um uh not only the allegiance, but the patriotism in this country sinks lower and lower and lower and lower every day. And you know, as we're being you know replaced by a lot of folks that are coming here from from other countries that don't like America and they they want to bring their country to the United States. And before you know it, we're gonna be down to those last 22 to 40 veterans. And it's like, man, like what do you do now? You know, like are you gonna lose your country? Or, you know, so it's you know, so there's a lot out there, there's a lot, you know, the people got to stand up, get involved, protect, protect the kids, protect our future.

SPEAKER_07: 1:55:14

I hope one day we start a veterans, non-partisan political party. Wouldn't that be outstanding? And this non-vetpartisan veterans political party would only put up candidates who demonstrated that they could work across the aisle and could only give and they could only be respectful. It would be the party of kindness, and they could only debate with kindness, and they would educate about the disgusting and horrible algorithms that prize outrage and prize us being in our ideological corners. Like what a world that would be if we had a candidate that would come on and just blow the whistle on how disruptive and and and just corrupt our our government currently is, and say, I'm not gonna stand for it. There's I'm not gonna be on the left on every issue, I'm not gonna be on the right on every issue. I'm gonna vote with my heart and with my conscience and with what my people and with what my district and with what the people in my community are impacted by.

SPEAKER_05: 1:56:20

Yeah. Unfortunately, nothing like that could ever happen because everybody's labeled, you know. It doesn't matter. You go into Congress and make, you know, 99 great decisions and have one that your constituents don't align with, and you're gonna be tagged a rhino, you're gonna be tagged a sellout, you're gonna be tagged this, you're gonna be tagged this, you're gonna be, and so you can never do enough. You gotta understand, too. We're living in a country right now where everybody is angry. We live in a very polarized, angry society. And what do hurt people do? They hurt others other people. Yeah, so nobody, so if you climb up that mountain, somebody's gonna try to shoot you down. I know the only time people are nice to you is when you're down here because you're not a threat. Once you're up here, you are now a threat, and now they are either jealous of you or they don't like what you're all about now because now they pose, you know, a risk of you know, you know, it's the same thing on social media, like you gain a huge following, right? And and now all of a sudden everybody wants you to share a post or do this or do that, you know. But when I but when you're down here, you know, everybody's like coming to you, like, hey man, you got this, you got this, you got this. And then when you finally start to heal and get back to like living some sort of a not, I wouldn't say normal life, but just some sort of a life of like purpose again, that's when you start to see them disappear. It's jealousy sinks in, or this uh sinks, it's like like no nobody really. I mean, the cunt the country's just so broke, it's just so broken. I mean on so many display.

SPEAKER_07: 1:57:59

It is, but at the same time, I I I still feel like all you can do is die trying and and back away from it when it gets too stressful. And on that note, that's why I'm taking two weeks off and going on another vacation in the next couple of days or so. So, yes, uh, I sometimes do this. I bank all my shows and I do a lot, and then I walk away and I I re I re I I you know I I regroup and then go back at it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:25

But but but I do want to say I I think there still are more good people uh than uh than bad. And so there's you know, like the I I have so many great friends um that we all cheer each other on, and it doesn't matter, like like like they're they're part of you, they're part of your circle, they're part of you know your story. And uh, you know, we got you know each other's backs, and we're there to uplift and to help motivate, um, you know, and really recreate um, you know, who you are as a person, as a father, as a man. I mean, guys call me all the time, hey man, like you know, because I got four kids, I've been married 27 years, you know. So guys that may be going through different life experiences and life challenges and life situations that may be different from me, but I have a lot of really good experience and something that they may be go uh going through right now that's you know that's hurting them, you know. So it's like you know, we're all there for each other, and you know, like I would say, men need men and and women need women. I agree because you know, you know, iron sharpens iron, and you can't have the same conversation as you can with a woman if you're a man because there's a dynamic there, yeah. They just people are people, yeah. Yeah, they think they think differently, and so I think you know, really, you know, men need men to really get in there and um you know to and to help each other out. You know, there's so much, you know, di uh dynamics there, you know, and you know, like you couldn't take a lot of your problems or your some some of your issues to somebody, maybe other than like your best girlfriend, you know, whatever it may be. But um, you know, there's you know, a lot of things out there, and I know that's very biblical. Too, you know, uh, you know, uh, men need men, women need women, and that's how a lot of problems can get fixed in the country because people need to lean on each other.

SPEAKER_07: 2:00:09

They do. That's a wonderful way to end this show. I 100% agree that we all need each other and we all need to remember that we are bigger than all of these silly divides, and we need to focus on what we share, and that is our humanity. So, with that, I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to come on the Stories of Service podcast. I will meet you backstage to say goodbye briefly, but I really appreciate you taking some time with us today.

SPEAKER_05: 2:00:40

Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07: 2:00:42

All right, guys, that is my last podcast for I think about two weeks. Uh, I think I'll be back at it late February. But as I've been saying before, I might slow down a little bit. I always say that and then I still plug in more shows. But I thank you all for if you've stayed with us this long, very much appreciate that. I know this was another one that went a little bit over, but I believe that sometimes those stories have to be told in a longer form format. So thank you so much for all of you who stuck with us. And as I always say to end these calls, please take care of yourselves, please take care of each other and enjoy the rest of your day. Bye bye now.