The Day Due Process Died in the Military with Clarence Anderson III | S.O.S. #254

A decorated Air Force logistics officer. A collapsing marriage. A system that prized appearances over proof. We sit down with Major Clarence Anderson to trace his path from special operations success to a 42‑month sentence—despite no civilian charges and a later-recorded admission of a $100,000 payment tied to perjury and motive. This isn’t a salacious true-crime detour; it’s a clear look at how political pressure, unlawful command influence, and lopsided resources can bend military justice away from evidence and toward outcomes that “look” tough.

We walk through the key beats: Anderson’s leadership roles and deployments, the domestic incidents he documented to protect himself, and the moment investigators pressed forward even as family court and local police found no case. You’ll hear how a media gag order muted his side while headlines spread, why a judge-alone trial still ended in conviction, and what happened when a post-trial hearing confirmed the payment and conflicting timelines yet declined to act. Inside the brig, Anderson became a lifeline for other inmates, drafting briefs as new case law emerged—proof that resilience can grow even in confinement.

Beyond one case, we dig into readiness, morale, and trust. When Article 32 becomes a rubber stamp, when prosecutors feel pushed to file without probable cause, and when accused service members lack parity of counsel and support, the force bleeds credibility and talent. We talk practical reforms: separating prosecution from command, enforcing evidentiary standards at charging, ensuring resource parity for the accused, addressing media gag asymmetry, and creating a short-term task force to audit convictions from the high-pressure years. Anderson lays out a bold ask—reinstatement and a SecDef-directed review team—to restore both justice and confidence.

If you care about fairness, unit cohesion, and national security, this conversation will challenge assumptions and offer a way forward. Listen, share with a friend in uniform, and tell us what reform should come first. Subscribe for more stories that put accountability, due process, and mission readiness back where they belong.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Why Due Process Matters
• 2:03 Major Anderson’s Career And Credentials
• 10:35 Marriage, Red Flags, And Domestic Incidents
• 18:18 Separation, Custody, And Rising Pressure
• 25:45 OSI Interview And Counsel’s Warning
• 31:35 The Push To Court-Martial Despite No Evidence
• 38:20 Media Gag Order And Public Narrative
• 47:13 Judge-Alone Trial And Guilty Verdict
• 50:33 Prison, Transport, And Early Appeals
• 56:10 The Recorded Confession And $100k Payment
• 1:02:15 Post-Trial Hearing That Changed Nothing
• 1:10:05 Appellate Missteps And Blocked Motions
• 1:18:20 Life In The Brig And Helping Other Inmates
• 1:24:30 Lawsuit, Media Strategy, And White House Hopes
• 1:31:40 Pardons, Politics, And The Fallout

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:01

Good evening, everybody. And once again, I have another story that I almost can't even believe. It deals with the due process system, or as I always say, the lack of due process system within the United States military. And I've done probably about 15, maybe 20 shows on this issue and people who have been denied their due process protections. And every time I hear these stories, I think, oh my gosh, this can't get worse. This can't involve more people or more situations. And then I hear a story like yours, Clarence, and my heart just breaks, not only for you, but for your family and through all the people who tried to help you through this process. And I will be another person who's going to try to help you through this process and get your story out there. So how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_05: 0:47

Um, you know what, I'm doing good. I uh I there's an old saying in the South, I don't look like what I've been through, um, but I'm maintaining. And so appreciate you. Um, you know, we've got some neutral friends who've kind of linked us together. So um just appreciate everything you've done to uh get not only my story out, but our stories out because it truly is a national security issue.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07

It really is. And this is a readiness issue. This issue with men who I believe and many others believe have been falsely accused of sex crimes goes much bigger than their individual cases, but is a readiness issue and is really tearing apart the United States military. So, with that, as I always say, welcome to the Stories of Service podcast. Ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service. And as we always do to get these podcasts started, we will do an introduction from my father, Charlie Pickard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:38

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service, hosted by Teresa Carpenter, here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_03: 2:02

And as you'll hear today, I'm gonna go full screen and just talk a little bit about Clarence and then we're gonna pull him back into the call. But Major Clarence Anderson, he did everything that the military asked of him, and then the system broke him. He served as a Air Force logistics officer and two-time squadron commander, deploying five times across U.S. Central Command and U.S. Southern Command. As a division chief for U.S. Special Operations Command Central, he directed the largest logistical movement in the history of U.S. Special Operations during Operation New Dawn. His career reflected trust, responsibility, and command at the highest levels. But that record, that record did not protect him. After discovering his wife was having an affair, Anderson filed for divorce and was awarded custody of their daughter. What followed was not a legal dispute, it was retaliation. And what we're going to talk about tonight is how his wife and mother-in-law collided, colluded, and falsely accused him of sexual assault, alleging that while they were married, he groped and digitally penetrated her without consent. Civilian law enforcement investigated and found no evidence of a crime. He was never arrested. We have the proof of that. And the Florida District Attorney refused to prosecute, but the military did anyway. And tonight we're going to be talking about some corruption and some secrecy and some cover-ups at the highest levels, which ultimately resulted in Major Anderson being sentenced to 42 months of prison. Welcome again to the Stories of Service podcast. It's an honor to have you on.

SPEAKER_05: 3:31

Hi, Teresa. It's good to be here. Thanks for having me again.

SPEAKER_03: 3:34

So, first off, as I always ask all my guests who who have uh served in the military, where were you born and raised? And what inspired you to originally join the Air Force?

SPEAKER_05: 3:44

Well, uh, born and raised in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. I'm an Army brat. Um so what inspired me to join the Air Force? And I tell you what, I wanted nothing to do with the military. You're talking from coming from a person whose father's military, houses got to be clean, you know, your socks, underwear look a certain way. So I was good. So I was playing basketball at a so we ended up in Alabama, here in Ozark, near Fort Rucker. And so there's a junior college at the time called uh Enterprise State Junior College. I think they changed their name. Um, and so I was playing basketball there at the junior college, and then director of our athletics uh was a retired uh army colonel, 06. And so I'm you know getting ready to graduate and get ready to figure out where I want to play ball at as a junior. And he says, Hey, have you uh, you know, I heard that Troy's looking at you, and I end up playing basketball at Troy. And he's like, You might want to consider uh ROTC. And I'm like, I I'm I knew high school ROTC. I'm like, Well, I never did it in high school. He said, No, no, no. He said, I'm he said, Clarence, I think that you got leadership potential. Um, you're doing well here, but I think that you the you you could benefit the country, and the country can benefit you if you can maybe thought about joining the Air Forces. I got a buddy up there. Um, so if you go to Troy, let me know and and I'll connect you. And so I ended up playing ball at Troy my junior year. I've I I thought so much of uh of uh the colonel that I linked up with his buddy up at the detachment, went up there, and they were they love to have me because it was it was kind of like and I'm not equivalent to David Robinson, but when he played for the Academy, the Naval Academy, he brought in a lot of additional folks, and so at a minor level, I brought in some additional eyes to ROTC because I was playing with a basketball team, and then the rest just kind of you know picked up. I I was uh I was enamored with the culture because I kind of came from that. They welcome me with open arms, and you know, the rest was I signed up uh to on the two-year program and came in as an officer. My first duty station was was a Moody Air Force Base in Wild Asta, Georgia.

SPEAKER_03: 5:46

Okay. What did you uh what was your job in in the uh Air Force?

SPEAKER_05: 5:51

So initially, this is when I want to say uh I came in in 2001. So this is right when everything just went to all we knew was wars. So I came in initially as a supply officer, and so I just did uh warehousing, uh POL, fuel operations, uh, and that was it. And the Air Force came up with a great idea of merging three career fields supply, logistics plans, and transportation. And so they combined those three career fields, and we became a logistics readiness officer. And so we worked everything from flight line operation, logistics plans, uh wartime planning, transportation, household goods, TMO moves. We did it all, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 6:34

Yep, yep. And and you had quite a like I said in your bio, you had quite a few prestigious jobs in the military. You you worked in a lot of different places, and you saw a lot of a lot of sides to the military, especially special operations and and joint tours and such like that.

SPEAKER_05: 6:52

Uh Teresa, I got really lucky uh as a uh second lieutenant. Uh, my squad commander had a buddy of his who was at Herbert Field, and so he they were looking for officers because again, this is at the time Operation Enduring Freedom had expanded, and so they were looking for logistics officers to be embedded with the army to kind of do these special operations moves. And so he made a phone call. Um, I I ended up going to Herbert Field, which is Air Force Special Operations Command, and so as a young officer, I got that special operations stench on me, and so we it could be six-hour notice. I'm down in the jungles in Columbia with uh my you know loggy NCOs, and we're in a chicken coop radio in some T17s and 130s to and we were looking for guys in the fart guys in the jungle. Um, and we were also we were all over the place, and so that that really got and I didn't I really really did well. And so um again it goes back to those things my dad taught me, right? All just put your head down, work hard, and and as an officer, I just did that. I didn't care who I was in company with, I'd be eating at a table, nothing but junior NCOs and recracking and and you know, and then it was time to go to work, and so right, right. So that was the so getting in the special operations area as a young officer, and then kind of propelled you as you so then you kind of move up in rank, and they're they're wanting guys who's already been there, less less time explaining what we do, and and so I've always kind of been in the in the soft community.

SPEAKER_03: 8:20

Wow, wow. So you were and you were on the fast track before all this stuff happened that that you we are gonna uh discuss shortly. You were I believe selected for lieutenant colonel, and or was that was that is that is that crazy?

SPEAKER_05: 8:34

Yes, I well, I was up for board, but I was so I was I was in the zone uh at right at 14 years, and so I already had two had two command billets. And the crazy thing was I wasn't a school guy, I did everything correspondence, but because I really was moving and grooving in the soft community and and word of my founder who I was, therefore, when it was time to come back to the to the conventional air force guys, they were salivating to have me because a lot of my peers didn't have that experience. I mean, I I I I was a second-time commander at at like 12-13 years, you know what I'm saying? So I was just you know moving and grooving and making things happen. And and and one and one real thing, um, I think what helped me is when I was at McDill at Special Operations Command Central, being part of the team, the logistical team, because it's a spear, right? I'm not the tip of the spear, but I'm kind of close to the handle. We're part of the the the soft guys that went in and and uh captured bin Laden. And so directly wasn't tied to it, but indirectly we were. And so just again, those type of things that Air Force hears about. Yeah, let's bring this guy back. And so, yeah, I I was I was cooking to say the least.

SPEAKER_03: 9:37

That's awesome. And I'll tell you, it's an amazing experience to be a part of some of our nation's most historic events. Whether or not you agree one way or the other with them politically, it doesn't matter. It's just the idea that you're a part of those major missions. Like I was stationed on the USS Abraham Lincoln as the one of the first aircraft carriers, in fact, the aircraft carrier that went into Iraq during the shock in all campaign in 2002, 2003. And when President Bush landed on an aircraft carrier and they had that big banner that said mission accomplished, well, he landed on a S-3B Viking aircraft, aircraft 700. It had the tail. I can still remember the beautiful painted tail because we always have like one aircraft that's like, you know, kind of fancied up. And of course, it was that aircraft, and he landed in that aircraft. I remember him boarding Air Force One the next day. I ended up doing what's called fly off because I was backseat qualified, so I could leave the aircraft carrier the day before. But the point being is that it's it's an amazing experience to be a part of those operations, and it doesn't take everyone in special operations. Not everyone gets that opportunity, and you did. So that that definitely says a lot about your care your character and your work ethic. So what led up to the divorce with your wife? Let's let's go back to that and let's start relationships a little bit. Like when did you meet your wife? And then when did things start to go into a into a I would say a downturn, obviously, to where there was a contentious divorce? Because that's really where this story kicks off is the contentious divorce.

SPEAKER_05: 11:20

Yeah. And so we went to school together. Um, we went to the junior college together, and I'm going to Troy together. Um, we dated for a little while, went a separate way. She gets married, I get married, have uh, we uh she has her son. I have my oldest daughter and my uh I'm older son and my daughter, and so I was had custody of my daughter for my first marriage. Okay, she had custody of her son, and so we linked up at homecoming, Troy Homecoming, uh November of 2007. And so given the fact that you know I felt I knew her, we were married that February 2008. So it was about probably a three-month span. I'll never do it again, but I did it then because I was about 31 years old, thought I was in love, thought I knew what was going on, and and so um, and so I deployed, uh, I married her. I deploy as soon as I said I do that Friday, I was out to CAF, Kandahar, um for six months. Um, she we moved her family from we moved to well, she moved to my house from Atlanta, because she teaches in Atlanta, to my house in Millbrook, Alabama, where because I was a commander, squadron's commander at Maxwell Air Force Base at the time. And so um, so we got married. Uh everything seemed, you know, initially good, but then after a while, you kind of see habits and patterns and type of things. And so uh from there, um we get orders to uh Tampa at McDeal Air Force Base, where I went to Soxcent, and that's when the first serious red flag came up. You know, I'm getting a top secret SEI. Um, and at that time, for those who don't know about security clearances, the top secret security clearances, they look at your mama, they look at your daddy, your dog, they look at everything. And so um I had just uh did my change of command, handled the flag over to the next commander, and the the investigator said, Hey, come on down to my house. I've got a small office, I want to go ahead and finalize a few things. Your package will be waiting on you when you get down to McDill. You're gonna be good to go. So we get there, and uh she said, real quick, she said, I gotta run something by your wife. She said, Can I get your name, your social? And this laundry list of things come up and and and on her. And so one of the things I never forget was child endangerment, uh, cruelty to children. And I'm I'm I'm looking, and she was like, ma'am, you do are you are you aware of these charges? And then that's when she tells me, I am. And so so initially when we got together, she told me that she was on probation uh for she was dating a guy, and she uh they the relationship went south, and she wanted her key back to her house, and so he didn't want to give it to her. And so she tells me she goes in his pants' pockets, rips his pants to get her key, he gets mad, calls the cops. Well, fast forward, we're in the investigator's office, and these child charges come up, and she left. Oh, remember the time I told you about the guy, we had a daughter there with him, and that's uh while they got him for the child cruelty charges. I'm like, okay. And you should and so I'm sitting here, uh you can imagine the look on investors. Yeah, you're just shocked, yeah. You didn't know about this. Yeah, yeah. Well then, but I was embarrassed too because I'm like, well, why should we give this guy a top secret security clearance? And he doesn't even know.

SPEAKER_03: 14:33

He doesn't even know that if he doesn't even know this about his wife, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 14:36

Yeah, so anyway, got the security clearance, went down to Soxon, did the things we just talked about. Um, so that was kind of how we met, and then the first series of red flags that that popped up with her.

SPEAKER_03: 14:47

Okay. And and and you at initially were able to to work through that issue, but as I think we discussed in the phone call that we had a couple few days ago, there were other things that happened throughout the marriage from a from a uh, I would say, okay, so me and my husband, we have arguments and and and work, we kind of bicker and we get on each other's nerves. That happens in every marriage. But I would say that I I want to basically show that this isn't this wasn't something like a one-time thing, that this accusation came from nowhere. There was from what I could tell, there was pretty contentious leading up to this.

SPEAKER_05: 15:20

Oh, yeah, it was. I mean, she she had a temper, and so again, you you you you at the you know again, I'm I I did not know what I know now about borderline personality disorder, all the the per all of the disorders that are in the DSM, which is what psychiatrists use to diagnose all your your behaviors, bipolarism, all the other stuff. And so I had no clue. I just thought that hey, she just got a temper and um and we're just dealing with it. But yeah, a lot of a lot of arguments would lead to you know her slapping, I'm grabbing, hey, stop. Um and so there were a couple particular instances where it happened. You know, I'd grab her, get her off me. You know, cops get called, I'd call cops, and I'm like, hey, just dot my eyes crossing T's. And so just to document that these things happen. And so it's funny because those same documentations were later on during my court martial, you know, I think I'm the first person that I can think of that actually had long, never been arrested, had law enforced officials testify this guy never did anything, and and you still get a conviction, you know, which is just baffles me because the the the bar to get an arrest is low, lower than the bar to get a pr to get a conviction, right? And so if I never met the low bar to get an arrest, then how do I meet the bar to get, you know, I would have thought about that.

SPEAKER_03: 16:35

If if those cops were coming out to the house and they suspected even for a moment that you were violent or that you were the aggressor, I would think that they would have made indicated as such in their police reports, or they would have they would have wanted to detain you, or there would have been something leading up to that, but obviously there wasn't. This was you guys had a domestic argument, the cops were called, you wanted to protect yourself. Like you said, you wanted to make sure there was documentation of this because if it escalated, uh you wanted to make sure that that you weren't you weren't fighting this on your own. And at that time, you and your wife decided to separate, and so you wanted my understanding is that you wanted to have custody. Now go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 17:19

Right, right. So this was so I filed for divorce twice. So at the end of the McDill term, uh tour, I'm I'm I'm fed up, I'm ready to divorce. We we had Brooklyn, our daughter at the time. Uh Brooklyn was born in 09, so we're leaving at 13. So she's probably about three. Um and so I filed for divorce, I'm ready, and to to bring all of the evidence out on display so I can get my baby. And she calls me probably like seven days before I'm PCSing.

SPEAKER_03: 17:46

And can I ask you just a quick question? It was something I meant to ask you in the phone call, and I think it's important, but you did not want to have joint custody, you wanted full custody. Did you want full custody because you thought she was um aggressive or you thought that she was just not a fit to have full custody? Was that or a joint custody?

SPEAKER_05: 18:04

I did. I I had issues with my oldest daughter when I'm so backtracking. So I ultimately found out about what happened during the arrest record. Uh was prior, I was going to a joint school. Um, this was when I was still at Maxwell in Montgomery, and I uh I'm looking for my taxes to file taxes, I want to have everything good to go. I couldn't find the last year's returns and my filing cabinet. So she always had a little filing cabinet in her inner closet. And so I just went through it and I saw a police tab. I saw a tab that says police, uh, police incident. So I what is this? So I looked through it, and oh my god, it was completely different than what she told me. It was uh her and the guy were living together, he was going to a birthday party, he didn't feel comfortable leaving his daughter there. So he grabs his daughter to take her with her, I guess, his mother or the bait the child's mother. My wife gets upset, pushes both of them down the stairs. The two-year-old daughter hits her head, has a huge knot on her head. That's where the child cruelty part came from. So then he calls, obviously calls the police. Um, the cops come, observe the knot on the kid's head, and and that that's so that's what happened. And so when I found out about it, again, it was always with her. I find out something and I gotta go. So I find this was like on a Saturday. I'm leaving for my joint school in Norfolk, Virginia, that that Sunday or Monday. And so really didn't have time to digest it. I'm like, we'll talk about this when I get back, obviously, or while we're gone. And so from that time frame, the marriage just went south. My relationship with my daughter from my first marriage, uh, the time my daughter was like 10 or 11, just went sour. She, my daughters were just doing all types of things she didn't have to shouldn't be doing as an 11 year old, right? And so I came back, I filed, I'm ready to, you know, move on. And so those were the concerns on why I wanted full custody.

SPEAKER_03: 19:52

Okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05: 19:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 19:54

Okay, so you are aiming for full custody. The judge temporarily, my understanding.

SPEAKER_05: 20:03

Hold on, no, hold on. So, right before I'm getting ready to PCS to Alamogordo for my second command, about seven days prior to that, she says, about maybe seven to ten days, or maybe give her two weeks. She contacts me. She's like, Look, I don't want to do the divorce. Let's try to work it out. I'm like, you want to wait till two weeks? And so I'm like, look, you know, I believed in the the safety of marriage. You know, I'm a Christian. I said, okay, maybe this is a sign. I'm going to, I'm leaving Tampa, going to Alamogordo, maybe, you know, a smaller town. We don't have the distractions of a big city. My commute is an hour to work every day. And you know, I can come and have lunch with you. And I said, so look, I said, I will agree to do it, but we're going to do counseling. I said, you and I are going to do counseling. We're going to do family counseling. I want to strengthen the relationship between you and my daughter because some a lot of things gone that that broke that relationship. And so we reconciled at leaving Tampa, McDill Air Force Base, going to Harleman Air Force Base. And so when we get to Harleman, that's when everything completely changed. She didn't want to do any of the things we agreed to. Um, and then that's when she gets introduced to the guy she ends up having the affair with and getting pregnant by.

SPEAKER_03: 21:20

Okay. So she wants to at first says she wants to reconcile, reconcile, but then doesn't isn't willing to do the work of reconciling and instead starts to have an affair you don't know about. Obviously, you don't know about this affair at the time, but at this point, you say to her, Okay, fine, we're we're going to separate. I mean, at this point, right? And then that's when you uh start making uh moves to try to get full custody. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_05: 21:54

Right, right, right. Bringing back, you know, again, going to the same playbook I had six months prior, right? And so it's like, okay, here's what we're doing. And so uh hindsight being 2020, I think she was like, okay, I'm gonna one up him and because he's got this on me, and I'm going to, you know, and so and and her mother, who's also a big part of this, her mother's on the city council at a nearby local town in Fort Rucker, uh, is right between both of our towns we grew up in. So she's all she's all aware of the buzzwords, what's going on in the military, because again, she sits on a city council, and city council oftentimes gets invited to Fort Rucker, and and so she so she was embedded with the military community. She knew how the kind of the how the way the winds were blowing, and if just any mention of domestic, especially with me being an officer, a senior officer, field grade officer, squad commander, any hint of that, you know, of any, you know, they're gonna really, you know, put you under a microscope and and often just an accusation would get you to boot or get you removed from command.

SPEAKER_03: 22:54

And and the year that this happened was what year?

SPEAKER_05: 22:57

This was uh 2013.

SPEAKER_03: 23:00

So 2013.

SPEAKER_05: 23:01

So not quite not quite where the Me Too era kicked in, but it was it was brewing, right? You had your Senator um uh McCastles and Gillibrand, uh, and also President Obama was looking at, you know, kind of getting involved and kind of you know doing and and and I would just say that yes, especially during the during operation uh well, I'm sorry, with with Iraq, when everything first happened, there was a lot of things being swept under the rug.

SPEAKER_03: 23:28

Yeah. Uh particularly, and that's that's you know that's how this all started, or that's how a lot of the the uh conversations about sexual assault and sexual harassment and domestic violence got started, was because there were so many times that it was swept under the rug, and so many times that people were not being held accountable. So there was no due process for victims. And that's what we always want to emphasize. Like this was this was a reaction to the fact that there were legitimate cases that were not being prosecuted, and so the military in in in you know, predictable military fashion, instead of fixing the root issue, which is a lack of due process, they just decided to say, well, now we need to try to get prosecutions at at all costs, or now we need to have very vigorous investigations, almost to the point where we're gonna go on fact-finding digging missions uh in certain cases, especially if certain cases are political. And when you've got an accuser's mother who is a member of the city council, you can only imagine the kind of pressure that that must have put on that particular base to ensure that there was going to be an investigation on you regarding this matter. So that's what happened, correct? Okay, now go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 24:47

So I get a phone call. Uh by this time, we you know, I'm we're we're gone our separate ways. Uh, I get a phone call from uh my boss who's a group commander. He said, Hey Clarence, come on in the office, we want to talk to you real quick. I'm not knowing what it's about. I head there real quick, thinking it's maybe a pretend about something we we had going on, or maybe an airman of mine. He says, Hey, you gotta go see OSI. And I'm like, uh he says, I said, Well, about what? He says, Um, I can't tell you. He says, You can go by and see ADC first if you want to, or go and see them personally. They said, I'm just telling you your options. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go OSI. I'm gonna die. So as soon as I go there, um, you know, they do the the the good cop, bad cop with me, and they're like, hey, um, do you you know your wife has accused you of sexual assault, and we are investigating to find out what's going on. And do you want to talk to us? Do you want to turn? I said, I'm gonna talk to you. So they ask me questions. Uh, I'm like, no, I've never done this. Well, what about this time? Said you did this. I'm like, no, that was investigated. As a matter of fact, you can call my old command at McDill because they've already looked into all this stuff because we went through divorce then and we reconciled, so all this stuff was already brought up, was already investigated. I never did anything.

SPEAKER_03: 26:00

They can lead you to the police officers who right, and they were referencing, and if you if I understand correctly, they were referencing those times where you guys got into arguments and okay, got it.

SPEAKER_05: 26:11

Right, and so um uh so I did for six hours I was in there and they finally let me go and went back to my after that. I went to the ADC office and the ADC, um the area defense counsel, yep. Air defense counsel, sorry guys, with acronyms, air defense counsel, um, which is the the military version of your your I guess your your your pro bono attended.

SPEAKER_03: 26:31

Your defense, your pro bono defense attorneys that are really sometimes very much too busy to truly help you, and that's why you always have to get outside counsel as well.

SPEAKER_05: 26:39

So he wasn't busy enough to tell me this, though. He was like, dude, he was like, You should have never gone over there, they're gonna court-martial you. And I'm like, What? And and I'm like, I'm like, based on what? He was like, Look, man, he's like, the the time has changed. We just got a brief that all accusations, no matter the merits of going to court martial. I'm like, are you serious? And he was like, dude, I'm dead serious. He said, do not ever talk to anybody else again. And at that point, I was like, okay, this is pretty serious, right? And so I went and talked to outside counsel. So they investigated. I was on investigation. I was in command for about nine to ten months, even after they told me that, because they couldn't they couldn't find anything. I think they were willing to just say, hopefully, if the if she doesn't make any more noise, he's got another year in command, we'll let him go, and either he can, you know, retire or or PCS, and it won't be our problem.

SPEAKER_03: 27:36

And so during this time, too, it's important to note that the civilian uh law enforcement, they did not did they have jurisdiction to press charges, like could they have taken the case?

SPEAKER_05: 27:50

They allegedly happen at our home off base, and so sure again, and and so the no accusations are made in family court. The the family judge looks into it, and like nah.

SPEAKER_03: 28:00

So there's all these entities that have that have looked in your case at this point and and did made determinations. So you have yeah, civilian law enforcement, you have family court, you have all the times that that you did call law enforcement when you were having a domestic violence, uh not suspected domestic violence or a a altercation. And so at this point, uh they're investigating you for 10 months and nothing is happening. You're just under you're you're just under the cloud of investigation. I'm sure that had to be super stressful for you too.

SPEAKER_05: 28:34

Absolutely. So so the from what from my understanding, talking to ADC, my mother-in-law made one more call. She's like, Look, if y'all don't do something, we're going to the press because you guys are refusing to take action on and so so she was seeing also that looking like I'm getting custody of gonna be granted full-time custody of my daughter. So the custody I was granted was on an interim basis, the divorce was final. They were waiting until our PCS to make the final decision on custody.

SPEAKER_03: 29:02

And so the so during that 10 months, I just want to understand this during this 10 months that you were under investigation, you had full custody of your daughter at the time, temporary, temporary, uh full custody. I see. Okay, and you're still in command, too, during this period, still in command, okay, and so um, and so uh from my understanding, the mother kept putting pressure on the base, and so what they did was to appease her and I think and try to maybe make it again.

SPEAKER_05: 29:31

I'm not seeing again, I don't know the things that are going on above my head. I didn't know that that you know the judge advocate generally air force had you know gave an order to stab judge advocates and and article 32 judges, and then article 32, for those who don't know, is is kind of a uh a uh what's the hearing a grand jury?

SPEAKER_03: 29:51

Non-judicial, yeah, grand jury or non-judicial yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_05: 29:54

It's equivalent to them, it's equivalent to a civilian grand jury hearing. And so that judge is basically deciding whether the case should go to trial or not. So they've already gave standing orders to those judges. We're going to trial. So basically, your your article 32 or your grand jury here is a rubber stamp because there are so all of these things are again. I didn't know any of this stuff, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03: 30:11

So apparently this is by the way, doc documented. So there is documented cases of people being told to take every case, regardless of how flimsy the evidence was, take every case to court martial. Let's just let the lawyers deal with it. And what this does is put every single person, like Clarence and others, in legal limbo, and then everybody has to go through a court martial, regardless of what the evidence was, because this entire case was a he said, she said, because there was no physical evidence. There was no, so this is another good question during this investigation. Did they go through your cell phone text messages to try to substantiate whether or not she made these claims around the time periods to other people? Does do you see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05: 31:02

No, they looked at they grabbed my phone, her phone went through and and yeah, they lived through it and couldn't find anything. No, nothing couldn't find anything.

SPEAKER_03: 31:11

So if something were to have happened during that time, I mean I'm just I'm just plain devil's advocate here, or I'm just trying to understand this. If if something is as horrific as those kinds of assaults would happen, you would think at some point there would be an electronic text text message about that incident to a friend of hers, to her mother, to somebody. But there was nothing of that, nothing, nothing along those lines.

SPEAKER_05: 31:32

The only thing that they found and they and they twisted the user against me was it was an incident where we had a we had an argument, she got physical. I restrained her. And matter of fact, I told a police officer because they also investigated it, and I'm like, look, I restrained her. I told her, Look, you know, I I I got the best of you. You tried to grab me, I got you off of me, and you you started this, and so you can't start something, and then I defend myself from you and get mad and run into cops because she did it twice. And so the cops came. I said, No, I defended myself from her. Cops came investigated at my court martial. So there was that was the only text message. But again, my previous command already investigated that and looked at it and said it was nothing.

SPEAKER_03: 32:11

So at this point, the command that took everything was just throwing whatever could stick on the wall and and yeah, because they were under pressure to put this put this to a court martial. Okay, so 10 months, they finally proffered charge. I don't know what the right word is, but they finally charge you.

SPEAKER_05: 32:29

And so so they charged me only because so they took me out of command and they're gonna send me to Langley Air Force Base. But while I'm at Langley, they also there was a retention board that was going on at the same time in the Air Force, which basically they were looking at downsize, and so they figured that if I beat the court martial, they'll they'll still get me out on retention. And so they took me out of command, gave me paperwork on that, and then says we're also gonna get rid of you out of the Air Force. Here's a little$150,000 payment we're gonna give you to kind of see you on your way, but we're getting rid of you. So I saw all that. I'm thinking, first of all, I didn't do anything, I'm crushing it, right? So now all of a sudden, this little so I filed my 138 complaint, excuse me, your IG complaints, everything I can think of. All of a sudden, here come the charge for the court martial. So prior to that, there was nothing. They were gonna just just discharge me and send me on my way.

SPEAKER_03: 33:22

Do you ever wonder if, and I think I asked you this in the call, but I don't remember what you said. Do you ever wonder if you had just said, okay, fine, uh, don't retain me and kick me out, I'll take the 150 grand. If you had done that, would this have all been would this have all instead of doing the 138 and the IG complaint?

SPEAKER_05: 33:38

Well, that, and also remember, she prior to my court martial, my wife tries to send me the text messages through our divorce return and says, Look, if you give me custody of our daughter, I won't go through with this, right? And so hindsight being 2020 in both those scenarios, you know, just shut up, take the take the discharge, and 150,000,$50,000, or you know, tell my wife, you know what, you get custody.

SPEAKER_03: 34:02

I I don't want to, you know, and you know, but on both instances, you stood on principle, Clarence. That's the thing. You you stood on the principle of what you knew to be true, and that's why we're here today, still talking about this case. But that's that's that's just what blows my mind.

SPEAKER_05: 34:16

Yeah, Teresa, I remember my defense counsel, my defensive appel attorney says, Look, Clarence, he says, I says, You love better than me, man. He says, I love my kids. He says, But if I was looking at freedom, where you're at in the brig, versus you know, seeing my kid being a regular weekend dad, he says, I'll I'll do that. And I'm not gonna lie, it hadn't been easier. There's been some time, especially in the brig, you're looking at this cement wall with his red light that never goes out, and guards are coming by looking at you in the in the in the window of your of your door, and you're thinking, Man, I I'm here, and all I had to do was just say, you can have her.

SPEAKER_03: 34:50

You can or you or you can kick me out, or you can kick me out of the air, or you can kick me out of the air force. Yeah, but that wasn't the right thing to do. You didn't think your daughter was going to be safe in that environment, and you felt like you would be a more suitable full-time parent, and so you said no. And the fact that she would bribe you before a court martial like that, and the fact that you have text messages of this, text messages, and proof that this happened, but we'll get to that in a second before you know, as we go through as we go through the court martial. But so at this point, the the air the Air Force tries to offer you a bribe. I mean, that's really what kind of what it is is a bribe. They offer you a bribe, you don't take it. So they're like, Okay, gonna have to take the guy to court martial, try to get rid of him there. And so then your wife through your divorce attorneys, so your attorney, I mean, it was from I I saw the text message uh screenshots. By the way, we have links to everything that we're talking about. Anything that you want to know is either on Clarence's website on uh ClarenceAndersonTheIIIrd.com, or you can go to militarycorruption.com and just type his name in or those two words together, and you will find so many messages, so so much supporting documentation to everything that we're talking about. And that's why I'm so confident bringing this story to my audience.

SPEAKER_05: 36:13

For those who don't know, if you just do a Google search of Major Clarence Anderson the third, the first thing that should come up is my website, which is the www.majoranderson the third i.com.

SPEAKER_03: 36:24

You click on that, you'll you'll see everything from yep, I'm sharing the screen now so people can see it right here. So this is where all the evidence is, all the receipts, everything that you want to see is here. So and we'll get into some of that as we as we go through the case a little more. Okay, so now we're at the point where we're about to start the court martial because this is where we are.

SPEAKER_05: 36:48

All right, so I'm gonna put on my my my little lawyer, uh lawyer hat here. And so um, and so what we have is your preliminary hearings, and so your preliminary hearings are basically where you have your hearings that are uh sealed before the judge, and and at those hearings you determine what would be admissible in court or not.

SPEAKER_03: 37:07

And so the big thing that I'm motion process, yes.

SPEAKER_05: 37:10

Yes, yeah, exactly. And so what I tried to get admitted was the affair, because I'm saying the affair was your motive. If I can get this in, I will, you know, go with, you know, this will basically paint the picture on why I'm here. Because I know a lot of folks would be like, well, you know, we're at a court martial. The god must have done something, you know what I'm saying? Right. So so when we so they lied and said that they didn't keep in mind, she's already pregnant, about to have the baby during my court martial. Um, she so they both deny having the affair until we were divorced. And so so they're so what they were saying was, well, yeah, we were sleeping together, but it wasn't until she got divorced from him. So the judge was like, okay, well, if that's the case, the you can't discuss the affair because it's inadmissible to the time frame of the sexual assault. And I'm like, no. I mean, I'm like, and so I remember I want to take the stand at the uh preliminary hearing and and tell my silent, no, this guy was you know making fun of me and approaching me and telling you to sleep with my wife, all that stuff. And and so the judge was like, you guys can't, you know, and and later on at the we we will find out why they the and all the influences on why he was lying, um, pertaining to my mother.

SPEAKER_03: 38:26

If you had had a private investigator or anybody else on your end, could you have subpoenaed their text messages and gotten proof of that of that affair?

SPEAKER_05: 38:36

Uh I'm I'm sure, and but my thing was why you would think the government would do all that in their investigation, right? So, but but okay, yeah, but no, no. So again, no, I mean I know so much now than what I did, you know, sure, you know, 13 years ago now, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 38:55

Well, and and and as I go through these calls with other people, I will say the accused oftentimes gets investigators. The accused oftentimes gets special victims counsel and the um, or I'm sorry, the accuser rather. The accuser gets those things, special victims counselors, sometimes extra investigators. And then you compare from a due process standpoint what does the accused get? Oh, that's right, an area defense counsel that also sometimes reports to the same, maybe not the same chain of command, but all the way up if you want to go all the way up to the T Jags. I mean, really the the same, the same people. And oh, by the way, they're doing hundreds and hundreds of other cases other than your case. So that's why so many service members are uh who are accused are forced to go get private attorneys.

SPEAKER_05: 39:48

Or they'll just plead guilty. Most of your most of your cases end up in a plea deal. Ninety percent of cases that that are ev even in the real world or so or military world, 90% of cases end up in a You know, a pretrial agreement, you know, where you'll, you know, there there'll be some type of deal. So only 10% of cases actually go to trial.

SPEAKER_01: 40:06

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 40:07

And so you accuse these young guys, you say, Hey, you know, here's what you're looking at, man. You're looking at life or whatever.

SPEAKER_03: 40:12

But if you take this pretrial agreement, uh just admits of sexual assault, um, we'll be a year, and you know, and so and they want you to do that because it avoids a trial or a court martial and it makes it easier for all the parties. But what that does do for all these men that I've been covering is that it makes them a sex offender for life. It makes it very, very difficult for them post-military to receive any benefits, any veterans' affairs benefits, any other kinds of educational benefits. It like I said, it it brands them as a sex offender for life. So there's a lot of reasons why they don't want to do that, but that so this happens on the civilian side and this happens on the military side. The difference with the military side is all the extra is is besides some of the unfair court-martial proceedings within the UCMJ, is the fact that the accused, accuser rather, received so many more services than the than the accused.

SPEAKER_05: 41:14

Right. Well, from my understanding, I believe my ex she she ended up getting, you know, because you we'll talk about a huge payment later, but I want to stand for my fact for three years, was it three years or four years? She got like four or five thousand dollars a month. And on so on on top of, yeah, so there's so there because she was a was a civilian victim to a military member. So she got she got compensation for that, you know. Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 41:39

Yeah, that's like through the military, there's some sort of a compensation fund for for for victims of a of a sex crime. I didn't, I didn't that's the first time I've heard that one. I had no idea. I know that many uh people who are accusers do get also military sexual trauma, uh, but if they're in the military, if they've served and then they get out and through the Department of Veterans Affairs. But okay, so let's go to your court-martial proceedings and let's talk about the proceedings and how did those go. It was a three-day three-day trial. Really trial.

SPEAKER_05: 42:14

And so I I elected to go judge alone. I'm I'm I'm thinking that you know what? The judge knew heard everything. I didn't want to go civilian. I've got law enforcement officials saying I never did anything. I'm testifying, said I never did anything. I've got all of you know, it's it basically my word against her is a judge is gonna see that, you know, gonna see, you know, the merits of the case and send me home. And so uh I'll never forget on the third day. Um I've testified, I've I've denied all accusations, I've had the police officers testify. Like, we've looked into this, there's nothing I had previous command uh present evidence that said we looked into this, nothing ever happened. Uh, there was no evidence, and then I remember just the judge was like, guilty. I'm like, I'm dating myself. One of my favorite movies, favorite shows growing up was Home Improvement with uh Tim. I remember he always had that, you know, that that that sound he would make. And and it was I was like an out-of-body experience when the judge was like he ran through the charges guilty, guilty, guilty. And I'm like, what? And but they tell you to remain stoic and look forward in a position of retention while you're and I just remember I'm dying inside, like, how in the world did this happen? And so uh the judge sentenced me to 42 months, uh, in the 42 months in the military prison.

SPEAKER_03: 43:42

Was your mom there at the trial when this happened?

SPEAKER_05: 43:44

We had everybody there because initially, um, yeah, so my mom was there because there were incidents that she alleged happened in front of my mom. So my mom had to testify. Um, my father was there. We had friends from college that were there. It was almost like it was a family reunion in the um jury deliberation room. Yeah, everybody was there.

SPEAKER_03: 44:02

Yes, and you had you had quite a bit of support. Did you have a lot of support from the media or support uh before your conviction?

SPEAKER_05: 44:09

Oh no. So so so initially, uh Teresa, the Air Force Times ran an article on me like a month prior to my court martial, and they just brought up the charges. So here you got my face in blue uniform and my official photo, and they're like, you know, Air Force Major, and I'm like, how are you gonna go?

SPEAKER_03: 44:28

And you had no idea, you had no idea they were gonna go public. And oh, by the way, tell our audience what you were told about the media prior to your court martial.

SPEAKER_05: 44:37

Oh, I I couldn't talk to them. They gave they were at the Article 32 hearing, they were like, You cannot talk to the media. Um, there's a gag order, and so here's this article. The Air Force Times reporter calls me. I want to tell everybody, man, this is my wife, she had an affair, she cheated on me, she's getting mad, I got custody. Couldn't say any of that. And so I'm sitting there, so I had to go. I remember I had to go to my kids' schools because Alamogordo is a small town, like roughly maybe 45,000, 50,000 people, maybe. One high school, two elementary schools, real small town. And so I'm involved, I'm all over. I'm like doing, you know, working at you know, the schools, making nachos and hot dogs for after school events, um, yeah, reading to my daughter's daycare. So I had to go. So the article comes out, and they completely ran with it. They they they the local paper did something with it, the local TV station did something with it. Albuquerque ran a couple stories on it, and so you know, Air Force Major. Yeah, so at this time I was already taken out of command, and I'm just somewhere in the corner at that working for the wing commander in our corner office somewhere. And so um, I just remember having to deal with that.

SPEAKER_03: 45:46

And and Holly Yeager brought up a really good good question or something that I didn't even think about. Um, thank you, Holly, who who whose son I also uh covered, Robert Condon. Um did before this story came out, it sounds like you didn't know about it. Did they even bother to contact your attorney and get a statement from you or anything?

SPEAKER_05: 46:06

So they did. They they contacted my civilian attorney, and he was like, you know what? He says, after you get found not guilty, we'll talk to him. I'm like, and I for me, I'm like, come on, man. I'm like, they already run, tell them something. I mean, I gotta I've got kids here. I got, you know, I'm I've got a reputation, I've got to go around.

SPEAKER_03: 46:23

But you had a but you had a gag order too, and you weren't allowed.

SPEAKER_05: 46:26

Yeah, yeah. And that's probably why you so yes, the Air Force Times, uh, Jeffrey Scoggle, I think that's the reporter's name. He did reach out uh to me, and obviously, you know, we were like no comment, and and that was it. So he just ran what the charges were, and and and they were they were horrendous. They were they were looking like I kidnapped somebody from Florida and Alabama and put in the trunk of the car and brought it to New Mexico. And I was like, my god, how this is not good. And at the same time, Agent Peterson was has spanked his kid, and Ray Rice had done it too. So I'm like, man, I'm I'm done. They got all these images of guys who look like me out there, and I'm I'm cooked.

SPEAKER_03: 47:06

And so, how much, how long, like where was this on the timeline between when the story came out and then when your court martial happened?

SPEAKER_05: 47:12

Uh, I want to say so. The court martial was in April of 2015. I think the Air Force Times ran the story in March, either February or March of 2015.

SPEAKER_03: 47:21

So it was right before.

SPEAKER_05: 47:23

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 47:24

Wow. So they find you guilty, they sentence you to 42 months in in Miramar. So you go to well, and not at first, right?

SPEAKER_05: 47:35

Yep. So first two weeks, I was, you know, Alamogordo's right next to El Paso, Texas. So I was in the El Paso County for two weeks, and it was just terrible. I mean, just whatever. So they so there's a rule that service members can't be housed with third country nationals because there are a lot of Mexicans from Mexico. I had to be in solitary confinement for those two weeks, which is just terrible. The food's terrible, it just sucked.

SPEAKER_03: 47:59

And so there's a rule that service members can't be housed with third country nationals.

SPEAKER_05: 48:04

Yeah, yeah, we can't be. And so I wonder why.

SPEAKER_03: 48:07

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_05: 48:08

I mean, security issues. I mean, because you may have some guys that get a DUI that are in, you know, in an open area, and there's third country national that could potentially exploit them or something. So that's so that's okay from my understanding from that from that aspect. So did the two weeks, drove 15 hours from El Paso, Texas, to San Diego in the back of a truck, cleaned up, handcuffed. Um the only food I could eat was anything that was already prepackaged. And so they had to, if I had to use a bathroom, they had to, you know, and I remember it was my the the guy who was escorting me was my vice deputy commander, right? And so he was a guy, and so they, I mean, I was uh I was basically look like a slave, get shackled up and have to use a bathroom, and um, it was terrible. Then it was and I and and for 15 hours like that. So you're in the back of a van and you can't, you know, so get into San Diego Miramar, and so that's when everything starts to unfold uh for when we hear about additional evidence, and so this is like chapter two of this story. Chapter two of the story, yeah. Yep, so so chapter so chapter two of the story is again our families, as far as my mother and her mother and her ex-husband's family, we all are we all know each other, they all know each other, and so we started hearing initial rumors that there was a payment that my mother-in-law paid the guy my wife had the affair with, and so we didn't know what it was about. And so this is when you know, God bless my mom. Um, she calls him, and Alabama is a one-party state, and we record the conversation. And so at this point, she's giving him hell now. And so they've got a child, he's not wanting to be with her. She said, Okay, so she puts him on the system, child support, makes accusations against him. And so when my mom calls him, he is you can almost hear him wanting to hug my mom through the phone. So first thing he did was apologize. Um, and then you know, he admits to lying about the affair. He was like, No, we were actually to you know together uh before what I testified to. But then he also says, Yeah, then my mom like was there was there a payment? He was like, Yeah, you know, mother paid me, you know, ten thousand dollars to to lie. And so all of this was recorded.

SPEAKER_03: 50:28

And so what we did and and by the way, if you guys want to see, I I'm gonna try to share my screen real quick. And then if I can't, then I will follow up later on and get a little bit more. I don't know if I have the right link, but if you go on any of these links for the militarycorruption.com, I want to say it was on this one, but I can't remember offhand if it was this military corruption.com article or if it's I think it was an article with the former chairman joint chiefs of staff. Uh this this uh not this one. Um okay, and my audience will will understand if it's if it might be this one. It's not this one here.

SPEAKER_05: 51:08

No, it's not that one. That's that's me and the old boss.

SPEAKER_03: 51:11

Okay, all right. But oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 51:15

No, I think it's the one with the the the it was uh the former sec def. Yep, yep, that's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_03: 51:21

This is it. Okay, so if you guys go to and I'm I'm gonna describe it for my listening audience. The article is on military.com and it says um Air Force Officer.

SPEAKER_05: 51:32

Militarycorruption.com, right?

SPEAKER_03: 51:34

I'm sorry, yeah, that's what I meant to say. Military corrupt, thank you for the correction. Militarycorruption.com. And if you scroll down a little bit, I'm scrolled down on the call here for our viewing audience. You can hear both of these conversations. And if you want, I can play just a snippet of it because I think this is important because you just hear it in your mom's voice. Like she's just wow. I mean, it's a powerful conversation. I won't play all of it, just a bit of it, just because I want kind of the audience to hear what this sounds like. I mean, this is and it was a one-party state, is is my understanding, correct?

SPEAKER_05: 52:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 52:08

So so what she was doing was completely legal, and she's just trying to feel like she had a medical problem. Could you hear that? Okay, okay, good. All right. So I don't want to play the whole thing. I mean, I think, but it's just powerful. And she kind of goes into this whole thing, and then there's another recording right here where you can hear how she she's she's just talking to him, and and oh, it just gives me chills. This whole thing, this part of the story. So she admits it.

SPEAKER_05: 53:04

And for your listeners, if they when they go to military corruption.com, if they just search, you know, Major Clarence Anderson or something, the articles will come up and you look for the one that we're talking about now. Because there's there's there's tons of them. They've really done a good story, doing a good job telling my story, and then thankful to Military Corruption.

SPEAKER_03: 53:20

Nelson Sloan, yes, he's the he's the he goes by Nelson Sloan on the on the uh website. He's an amazing guy. I've been in touch with him a couple times. And uh his articles, I mean, they they they're they're backed up, they're evidence-backed. And uh, I really thank him for for for exposing this story and for doing the research that he did to help me uh research uh before this call. All right, so so your mother-in-law, I mean I'm sorry, your mother gets this recording.

SPEAKER_05: 53:47

Get the recording, and so what we do, we say, all right, mom, um we we we take it to the local courthouse, we get it officially transcribed, certified, we give a copy of the transcriptions and the recordings, we give a copy to the Air Force, and we give a copy of it to my then rep U.S. Representative, Congresswoman Martha Roby. We also gave a copy of it to Senator at the time Jeff Sessions. It was Congressman Roby who actually submitted a congressional inquiry. And so I'm gonna show that. And so April, I get convicted. Uh May, my mother records the conversation that we just heard. Um gets everything to D.C., takes the fruit trip to D.C. Um, my mother meets with Congresswoman Martha Roby, my congresswoman, and the late-great uh um I'm John Lewis, uh, late-great civil rights icon John Lewis. They both go into Congressman Robey's office, and uh Congresswoman Robe, they present all the evidence because initially Congressman Roby was like, I don't have time. And then John Lewis was like, uh, I think this might be something you might want to want, might want to reconsider. And so uh so Congressman Roby submissive that letter in September of 2015, uh basically saying, hey, there's evidence of witness tampering. The Air Force responds back to Congressman Roby in October of 2015 saying that my my court martial is not yet final. And they and it had a key line in there that says that the the the the military judge may rule on any defense, on any argument that the defense council submits, right? The key thing about that is that that that exchange between my congresswoman and the Air Force, the Air Force never submitted to my counsel. And so here's this huge conversation about me in Congress. They gave me a post-trial hearing that December. We get into the post-trial hearing. This is when they come, they completely start singing. They admit that no, we know it wasn't$10,000. It was$100,000. If mother-in-law missed to that, he admits to it, my wife admits to the$100,000 payment. They also give conflicting stories about when the affair started. They now they admit that it started when we were married, as far as the dates they think that they gave. And so we're like, Your Honor, can we let the file a motion for a new trial or file a motion dismissed based on perjury? The judge is like, I don't have any authority to do any of that. I'm just supposed to be here to hear the evidence. And we're like, What? I haven't gone to the appellate process yet. This is still with you, and so he uh and so if you're the good people could have done the right thing at that moment and decided not to. Now keep in mind it's the same judge that says, Well, I don't want, you know, you can't file, uh, you know, we can't bring the affairs evidence. So this is the same military judge at a post-trial hearing, same guy. And and again, you know, you go back to the marching orders that they received from you know, potentially President of the United States down to service secretaries, down to judge advocate generals, onto why no matter what, we got to keep these convictions. And so had I had the correspondence between the Air Force and my congresswoman where they where they had admitted that the judge may rule on any emotion my defense counsel submits, we would have used that to trump what he was saying in court and be like, No, Your Honor, the government has already conceded you have the authority to do something with this, and so he kicks it back to my convening authority. I'm thinking, okay, it's just a matter of time. They're gonna look at this and dismiss me. They my convenient authority says I had nothing to see here. We're gonna kick it to the appellate courts, and so I'm like, what happened?

SPEAKER_03: 57:24

Yeah, after people admitted that they perjured themselves. And oh, by the way, let's just go back to the bribe. Did you try to bring up the bribe? The bribe was text messages, electronic correspondence.

SPEAKER_05: 57:35

So we brought them up. We so we brought them up initially. So my attorney submitted it to the convenient authority prior to trial, and the convenient authority was like, uh, just bring it up during the court martial. And so we submitted it as evidence. Um, you know, the judge had it, and again, I went judge alone. So again, I'm thinking go judge alone. The judge has got everything, right?

SPEAKER_03: 57:58

You know, and it's basically a message saying she will not testify or she will drop not because she's not really preferring the charges, it's the government prefers the charges, but she will not testify, which means there's no case if she does not testify. So she will not testify in exchange for full custody of your daughter.

SPEAKER_05: 58:19

Right. And I say no. I say no.

SPEAKER_03: 58:23

Okay, so that's just insane. That is insane. And they so they basically say they can't, you you are not allowed to present that.

SPEAKER_05: 58:31

That that's basically what they say, or or well, they they just said present it to the fact finders at trial. And and so at the time, the fact finder at trial was a judge. So we presented it to my convening authority to try to get him to dismiss it because we're showing motive. He says presenting at trial, and so we presented it at trial, and we submitted as a one appellate whatever exhibit that you that you present during trial.

SPEAKER_03: 58:53

Sure, it was it was it was an entered into evidence, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 58:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 58:56

So the so the judge had all of that we instill did not consider that. Oh that's crazy. That is absolutely insane. How can you look at something like that and then think, oh yeah, something's truly did happen? I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 59:12

And and so that was before the trial. We're not even talking about now you presented with the motive, and now you're the same judge that now you hear this hundred thousand dollar payment that was exchanged from the mother-in-law to the guy with the wife had the affair with to lie. On on when the affair happened, yeah, when the affair happened, and he was like, I can't do anything.

SPEAKER_03: 59:31

Wow. So now your case is is at the appellate courts. That that's where it is now. Yep. And so what happens in those in those processes?

SPEAKER_05: 59:40

So so now I'm making noise. Anybody listen? Well, there's a few things happen. I I I I ended up kind of being the the probably the the least popular inmate at the brig because I'm trying to tell my story. Mama is in DC, she's reached out to Al Sharpton, National Action Network, they've held a rally for me. And here in my hometown in Alabama. Um, and so we're making noise, we're on TV, and so the Air Force catches wind, and uh, and so the reporter reaches out to me to kind of see how I'm doing. The same guy who did the article pri a month prior reached out to check on me. All right, and so I'm letting them know, hey man, because he heard about the$100,000 payment. And so he's like, hey, what's going on? And so before I talk to him, I go through Air Force channels. Um sorry, I go through Navy channels and I submit my paperwork to the warden of the brig or the commander of the brig. I'm like, hey, Air Force Times wants to do a restore on me. It's pertaining to uh my case. I'm not talking about the brig at all, it's all about my case. And they were like, well, you can talk to them whenever. Just add them to your thing and you'll pay your dime, and you can call whoever you want to call, as long as it's on your own time. So I do that, I do the interview, and then all of a sudden they rush to me, they get me out of my room. I'm like, hey, have you already done the interview? I'm like, Yeah, I'd probably do it like an hour ago. They were like, crap. And so they didn't doctor eyes across their T's because Naval Regulation said that they had to go all the way up to the Secretary of the Navy to get any approval for anyone to talk to any member of the media. Well, they didn't do that, and so uh, so in order to save everybody's butt from the the commander to all the civilians, everybody that was my caseworker, they all says, well, Anderson, uh, Anderson did this on his own. He didn't get permission. And so the chit, so the paperwork I had that was that they approved it was in my room. And so they go in my room, uh, do a sweep in my room, find it, and it disappears. And so I'm stuck with just saying I I talked to reporter on my own. And so um, I never forget. I saw him going on a hunger strike. I'm like, you guys are crap. So I I'm I I look, I only lasted 10 days. Big boy couldn't last for more than 10 days. Um, and then they finally saw that I was serious. They uh took me out. So they so they put me in a hole. They put me in a hole.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:03

You went 10 days without food. I don't think we yeah, we didn't really talk about this much on the call.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:07

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:08

Yeah, so that article about the brig reporter or a military member might be getting in trouble. Uh I think it was it was the Air Force Times article, and I think one of the three links I sent you initially. Yeah, but it was so yeah, in order for me to to get out, I I wasn't eating. And so they finally brought me out after 10 days and um and brought me out the whole and put me back in general population.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:30

Wow. Wow. What an injustice. I mean, especially the the I mean at every turn of your story, it's like this happened, this happened, this happened. That's why it just it blows my mind that this is public, public knowledge, and nothing to see here. It just it just blows my mind.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:55

Let me tell you, and so again, we get there's some celebrity folks in here. I already mentioned John Lewis, the civil rights icon who actually got my congresswoman to take my case and submit the congressional. And so I mentioned Al Sharp is National Action Network, so they held a rally for me. Now I'm from Alabama, small town Alabama. Uh at the time, my senators were Jeff Sessions and Richard Shelby. All right, so my mother meets Sessions, links up with them, and um at the time, President Trump has already announced that if he wins, Jeff Sessions is going to be his attorney general. Al Sharpton had beef with Jeff Sessions because when Jeff Sessions was the attorney general for Alabama, there were some issues with Coretta Scott King and the King family that Jeff Sessions didn't do right, or something to that effect. And so again, my mother, she's got to get her baby out of prison. So she reached out to Jeff Sessions, who at the time is my senator, but also sits on the the Senate Office Services Committee, right? And so she's working with Sessions to try to figure out what's going on, why the Air Force reneged on, you know, not get me out. So this angers Al Sharpton. I never forget. I was talking to the representative, and the representative, so they were gonna have my mother on his National Action Network show to discuss my case. And so, but because my mother reached out to Jeff Sessions, he didn't want to be tied to Jeff Sessions, right? Because that's gonna affect his donations and his donors. Like, well, you got this case. So he completely turned his back on us and was like, forget you guys. And so I remember I was talking to the lady, his representative on the cell on my um from prison, and I said, Look, I will never forget this. I says, one day I'm gonna be somebody, I don't know where I'm gonna be, but I'm gonna let everybody know what you guys did to me. And she's like, Brother Anderson, please don't do that. It's just a missing. I said, No. I said, I said, not only what's going on with me, but I said, but there's other cases that are similar. If you guys are all about you know taking care of black and brown folks, well, hello. And so, yeah, so anyway, that's that's what happened. So they turned the backs on me. Um so I try to introduce the payments, and so at this point, you know, I go from being, you know, the you know, most unpopular inmate to you know, kind of like Andy Dufrein from Sean Shank Redemption. I'm the guy, right? I'm I'm kind of like the godfather, and everyone is coming through there. Because at this point, the the the service members who run the brig are starting to hear about my case, and so they're like, Man, Anderson, we looked you up on the internet, and man, we're sorry. You know, you know, wow. There's anything we could do. And so we got a new warden, we got a new brig commander, and so she comes in, and so she is heard about me. She would call me to come, you know, talk to her about you know incidents that are going on within the brig. Excuse me. Um, young guys will come in, and the first time they were being in prosper staff members, staff members like, uh, because most of the cases were sexual assault cases in the brig. And so they're like, we need to get a hold of Anderson. He's helped a lot of guys. And so I I think I ended up getting like five cases overturned um with regard to some new case law that came out. I was writing legal briefs for guys, a couple guys on probation. So I was like that guy to the point when I do my full, yeah, when I do my full 42 months, um, the brig commander, she lines everybody up on that last exit, and they give me a standing ovation as I'm leaving the brig. And so one of those moments I'll I'll never forget. But uh, and so so that's kind of the the the appeals part of it. One more thing. Um, and so when I find out about the the letter to my congresswoman and the$100,000 payment, I submit a motion for a new trial to the judge advocate general. Now, the Air Force, since I had a high-profile case, they gave me an appellatorney by the name of Brian Miser. So Brian Miser was a GS-15, he was a senior defense appellate attorney, but he's also a JAG officer in the reserves. I think he's a he's a captain now. And so when I submitted, you know, that hey, the Air Force lied to Congress, they did all these other things, I submitted my own motion for a new trial. If you go to my website, you'll see it. I submitted to Brian, and Brian, now keep in mind the backdrop to my case. And so prior to my case, the Secretary of the Air Force, Deborah Lee James, had already got cited by unlawfully influencing uh a court martial where the convening authority, the three-star general, had intervened with a with a court martial and said, no, this guy didn't do this. So at the time, your convening authorities still had say so on whether a charge whether the case could go to appeals or they can kill it at their level. So he killed this guy's case at that level, and so she gets upset and threatens the guy that look, um, we're gonna retire you for doing this. Now he's within his rights, congressional Congress gave his community authority rights to do this, but it angers some folks, it angers some folks, and so she got cited for unlawfully influencing that case, and in that case, that's where you hear it was uh United States versus Brandon T. Wright. This is where you hear the then judge advocate general of the Air Force, Richard C. Harding, tell that convenient authority that look, you know, unless there's a smoking gun, victims will be believed, all accusations will go to court martial. And so so that's the backdrop.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:10

It's in that it's in that case, too. It's in that case law. You can look it up, and it's what they said. Unless there's a smoking gun of evidence to drop the case, all cases will go to court martial. So that is the that is the backdrop. Right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:25

So that's the backdrop to my case. So now you've got the secretary of the air force, Debbie Lee James, already being cited for basically obstructing justice. A lawful command influence is a military way of basically saying you obstructed justice, right? You obstructed justice, and now we got to overturn this case. So you've got that. Now you've got that same secretary lying to Congress on my case, right? Because all of your congressional inquiries go through the secretary's office. And so they sign off on it, they respond back to Congress. And so the back, so I'm highlighting all of this in my petition for a new trial that I gave to Brian Miser. So Brian Miser, you know, basically uh sabotaged the filing and didn't submit it to CAF. So at the time, so the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces, which is the highest appellate court in the military, is a it's a it's an appellate court of all military judges. And so he submits it, well, he doesn't submit it, and they never respond to it. Because I remember I kept calling and calling asking Brian, has the government responded to the motion? Like, no, no, no. And come to find out, Brian never submitted it the way he was supposed to, and Calf never accepted it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:32

Now you say the way the way he was supposed to, did he just did he did he submit it and just not submit it with the proper information?

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:39

Yes, yes. So so so in the so in the military appeals, we have what you call a Grostefon, right? And so a Grostefon is named, I believe, after a Navy sailor, last name Grosstefon. And so when he was going through his military appeals, he wanted to he's wanted his attorney to address another issue. The attorney didn't want to because he thought it was frivolous. Well, Grosstefon says, Well, I'm gonna put something together and submit it myself. And so it went all the way up to Calf. Calf says, No, a service member can present additional matters on it on his behalf if he wants to. And so it's called a Gross Defon. So I submitted my own Gross Stefan, highlighting the congressional letter that we just found out, which is the Air Force response to my attorney, to my to my congresswoman, talking about the payment, talking about how and so he saw he was like, Oh my god, I can't do I can't submit this. It's looking now. I'm speculating because I'm I don't know why Brian didn't do it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:33

And so what we what so he was when you submit a grocery file, you submit the package. There's additional headings that go with it, there's some other things that go with it. You just can't take the documents and say, Here you go, Judge Advocate General. There's got to be some additional filings with it. He didn't submit the additional filings, and so and because of that, the government never responded to it because it wasn't submitted properly, and so so that got killed. And so I filed uh additional reconsideration motions. At this point, I'm my own attorney, I'm writing my own legal briefs. I fired Brian Miser. Uh and Brian was a heavy hitter because he also represented Osama bin Laden's driver in Guantanamo. And so Brian Miser is a heavy hitter. You know, he he's certainly no, um, I think he might be a Navy captain now, I believe. And so um, yeah, so so I mean, and that file.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:19

Yeah, we'll never know to this day why he didn't submit it the right way. We'll never know really what the real reason was. We just know that it didn't it didn't come to you you and did you so so I just want to make sure I understand, just because he could be listening right now, and I want to make sure that I'm being factually correct. So basically, he he didn't submit it with your additional information, with the information that you sent him.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:47

So I've got that on my website. It's a petition for reconsideration to calf, and in that I have the emails because my mother's emailing Brian and say, Hey Brian, my son says he's looking at the the the the records for calf, the the the the manual for the the courts, and they're saying that a gross defined can can't be no more than 15 pages. Well, my son's motion is 30 pages. Uh it says also you got to do this, this, this, and this. And you know, and so Brian was like, you know, and so my mom was like, Well, Brian, you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing according to the to the court rules. And so and so he so they we got email traffic between Brian and my mom, where he basically saying, Well, I don't I didn't have to do that. And then we also said, Well, the government never responded. If you're accusing the government of withholding evidence, the government should be able to respond in an adversarial form. Well, then Brian's like, the government doesn't have to respond. And well, no, they did. According to the court rules, you submit a motion for a new trial, the government has to respond. Well, the government never responded because Brian never submitted it the way he did. And then I knew Brian was, and I'll stand on this. I knew Brian was talking to the clerk's office because in the emails he says, Well, they're probably gonna deny Clarence's appeal within the next couple of days, anyway. And then the next day they denied it, you know what I'm saying? So he was coming on Brian. Um, and so from I understand, I heard that he was he was good friends with the clerk of clerk of calf. It was another former Navy guy, and and again, I'm only specul I'm I can only go on what Brian said, so I'll stand on it, and I've been standing on it for years. It's always been out there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:17

Yep, yep. No, I hear you. Okay, so that's your appeal that gets that that that's the last step in this process, is my understanding, until now we go to the pardon.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:30

Yeah, you get it. So I I get out and you know, keep in mind I I got a master's and two-time squadron commander, part of an elite team that you know took out you know, Milan and all this, and I can't get a job. I I I can't, I've got a record. I've and so I'm working at uh we got a love travel shop here, and uh working on loves, working on Arby's, making the best sandwiches you can make at Arby's. Yeah, I love Arby's. So working on Arby's, making$9 an hour. My credit is messed up, I lost my house. I done I'm I'm at the bottom. I'm at where my mother spent all her money trying to send me what she could, and so we've got this raggedy car that I'm usually getting to work on. It was just terrible. So I've I had family, we all chipped in and we hire an attorney. I file a lawsuit with everything we're talking about, and I go on One American News. And so at this point, you know, I've already had a kind of had a an internet, excuse me, an internet presence. And so we uh so I already had a little name, and so I go on and I pitch in One American News actually does a story on my lawsuit, excuse me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:42

And they do a great story, by the way. I highly encourage you guys check it out. It's a real technical. Yep, and I I think I did used it as a one of my promos to put out about the call. Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:53

All right, so so I go on One American News. Uh, we all know that President Trump likes the the likes of Newsmax and One American News and Fox News.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:01

Yep, first Trump term.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:03

It's first term. So I'll find a lawsuit in 2019. I get a call from the White House. Now it's not him, but it was like, hey, this is you know, set this up for the White House. Uh President Trump has been made aware of your your case. He wants to help. Um, would you be interested in attending, excuse me, attending a fundraiser for him? And so I'm like, yeah. And so I attended a fundraiser. It was in Florida, it wasn't at Merlago, it was in I want to say Detona Beach or somewhere over there. And so this is when I meet uh Eddie Gallagher and Clint Lorance, who are also guys who president Trump apart. There's a picture of me somewhere, might be on my Facebook page where I'm like, I'm I'm in the middle and I got both of them around my arms. Yeah, and so um I meet them at the fundraiser, and so everything's going well. I'm thinking, okay, this, this, this, this uh it's gonna be over. And so they said, you know, excuse me, the president would like to offer you a pardon similar to what he did with Clint Lorenz. And so I I knew at the time, because I've done my homework, that one, a pardon is a mission of guilt. I'm not admitting anything, but two, I wanted a new trial because I wanted to call all of these folks who had a hand in this, from the secretary to chief of staff to everybody, and Brian, everybody called, and so I'm like, sir.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:17

There's so many players in this. There are so many. So thank you for all those who stuck with us.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:22

Right. And so I'm like, can we get a new trial? And I'm like, yep, we can give you a new trial. And so leading up until uh 2020, um, everything's looking like I'm getting a new trial, and then uh January 6th, 2021, folks storm the Capitol, and so folks are stormed the Capitol, and I'm just looking at it from my little small little 32-inch TV from in my uh from here in the house. I'm like, this can't be good. This can't be good. And so I remember my point of contact in the White House, who I was using to work getting a pardon, stop answering phone calls. They quit. And so we are, and if you remember, President Trump went dark, probably that that was 20 days as well. He wasn't really to say much out of the White House anyway, because at the time everybody turned their backs on him. It was Ms. McConnell turned their backs on him, the speaker of the house turned their backs on him, and so I was using at the time my congresswoman Martha Robe is no longer in the office, she gets uh replaced by Barry Moore. So I'm using Barry Moore's office, Senator Tommy Tupperville's office, who's my senator because he replaced Shelby uh at the time. Oh, I'm sorry, he replaced Jeff Sessions, he replaced Sessions, and then uh and so we are you know just doing all we can. I mean, I'm trying to get President Trump to sign a napkin, just Donald Date Trump in your buy. I mean, we are going back and forth with his office and nothing. And so um, and then it's funny, if you go to my website, it's funny how the the the the fox are in the small details. And so um, if you go to my website, there's a letter from my congressman Barry Moore to President Biden requesting for President Biden to have the Department of Justice look into my case, right? Now, give you guys a little history lesson. We had a former president by the name of Bill Bill Clinton, right? And Bill Clinton had a special prosecutor. Uh should be the first, it should be U.S. Congressman request DOJ investigation against the Air Force. Should be the top link up there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:18

So this one, okay?

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:20

Right here.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:22

So that that letter is from uh that that letter is from my congressman to President Biden requesting a DOJ to investigate my case. Now keep in mind, I'm gonna connect the dots for you. At the time, President Trump hadn't been charged yet, right? And so we didn't know that an indictment was coming against Trump for the January 6th, oh, oh, and the uh classified documents down in Florida. So he's getting ready to be indicted for that. We don't know it yet. So around the time that my congressman submits this letter, and the reason I'm bringing up the Bill Clinton case is because when there's a special prosecutor to look at the Bill Clinton case, the initially they were looking at property that he owned as a governor. So how do we get to Monica Lewinsky? Well, the reason why you do is because when there's a sponsor press, when it's a special prosecutor, if there's one element of crime, they can keep looking, keep looking, keep looking until they find something else. You know, and so from my understanding, President Biden didn't want a special prosecutor looking into my case because ultimately it'd be tied back to the service secretaries, the judge advocate generals. Well, who gave us in lawful order? President Obama did. Well, who was a vice president? I was, all right. And so he didn't want, from my understanding, he didn't want any of that to be tied back to him, especially when you get ready to indict a President Trump on the unclassified document thing. And so what happens is President Biden takes that letter and as the Air Force go investigate themselves.

unknown: 1:19:46

Well, of course.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:47

And so when the Air Force responded to my congressman, they just basically gave a procedural record of what happened. They didn't get into the details. Yeah, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:56

Or address the issue.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:58

So had President Biden hired a special prosecutor to look into my case. I think that'd have been political suicide for him because I mean he ultimately ended up jumping dropping out anyway. But I think that the everything would have been tied back to because again, it's not just my case, there's literally thousands of cases like mine where service members have been caught up in this web and and so well.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:18

Well, service members were denied due process where they were not given adequate investigations, where cases were sent to court martial with no evidence, and people were convicted entirely on a he said, she said, and there is even a slew of convictions that could have seen life, but instead of getting life, they would get three years or three and a half years. And that was a very symbolic way to oh, we gave him something, we did something, and then so they think in their minds, oh, this makes the vic this makes the uh accused accuser happy, and then at the same time, this doesn't complete it is sweet, it is I think it almost like soothes their own guilt about the fact that maybe they have questions about the case and they don't really know what happened, so they're like, Well, give them three years, that'll that'll that'll take care of the problem. And that's that's not an answer.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:16

Well, and the sad thing is you you see now members of Congress, for example, Senator Kelly, right? He and a couple of other senators and members of Congress came online and says, Hey, uh military members, if you guys are told something unlawful, don't do it, right? And then so, but I'm thinking, hold on, Senator Kelly. You were a naval officer around the time when all this stuff was going on. Where was where were members of Congress? Well, where were you? Where were members of Congress said, Hey, military members, these are violations of due process, don't do it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:48

Right. And we talked about earlier how there's these high profile cases like Eddie Gallagher's or Stu Scheller's or some of these ones that the Republican Party gets a hold of, and and maybe the Democrats have it on their side. Oh, they do. The Democrats have it on their side when it comes to like the Coast Guard sexual assault cases, uh, and and they're just politicized, and and they're they're held up and they're saying they say, Oh, well, this is an example of the military justice system going awry, but they don't fix the root issue, they don't fix the rules of evidence, they don't fix the problems with like like you you're saying here, Arvis, in in the fact that they handpick juries or the fact that the convening authority uh is is the one who ultimately is the judge and jury and decides in so many of these cases whether or not there's enough evidence to send a court martial. So that's the part that just blows my mind is that they they they they hold up these representative cases or oh, we we've reinstated all these service members that we probably should never have kicked out in the first place over an illegal vaccine. Okay, but you didn't fix the problem with their fact that you violated their due process protections. Right, and that's the part that just makes me so upset. And you know me, I'm not fixing the real problem.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:08

I point out everybody, and matter of fact, we talked about the DAC iPad, and prior to the DAC iPad, you had the JPP, which is the judicial proceedings panel. They came out and they said, Look, military, you guys are wrong.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:19

As a matter of fact, these are like review panels that we're supposed to study and fix these issues.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:25

They they they highlighted that military JAG officers are violating their state bar ethics by prosecuting cases with no probable cause. So you would think if I'm a JAG officer, that I would go to the American Bar Association and like, look, they're making me prosecute these cases, and there's no probable cause, and I could get this bar for this. I guarantee you, if the American Bar Association would have said, All right, military, cease and assist doing these things, we're gonna start taking your law licenses from your military attorneys, this stuff would go away, right? Right. But so, but but instead, what these Jag officers are doing, they see the cash cow. So instead of them doing the right thing, they're getting out expeditiously and representing these service members on these sections officers.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:07

They're benefiting. That's the sad thing. And that's not to say that they're all bad people or that that does not there's not good ones there that are trying to do the best they can, but they are directly benefiting from the dysfunction. So they stand to benefit, they stand to gain from representing service members, and it's just like divorce attorneys. I mean, they're making money if these cases are drawn out as long as possible. So it's hard to it's hard for me to wrap my mind around why not at least one has spoken up and said these are the problems and these are the things that we need to fix. And then yeah, Arvis is saying DAC iPad spot checked and showed 42% of cases, 42%. And I think I have that 40% number also on my website that 40% of cases um that that that don't show problem that that that showed zero evidence and were still sent to court martial, which is just ridiculous. So you didn't take the pardon, you uh that was that. So that so then we move on from that period, and I think we're all the way up now to about where you where where things stand today. Right, so right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:20

So I filed a federal lawsuit, and to kind of let you know that you know, you know, you know, there's a term, you know, there are tall types of relationships that that come from, and so um I follow I follow a federal lawsuit, and this is where when I want to want American news to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:37

So the federal so the federal judge in the fourth federal district court, and I don't mind saying the name, just Anthony Tringa, ruled that, and he he ruled against me in his ruling, which came out in February 2020, and what he said was, hey, this recorded conversation uh that got you this post-trial hearing, all those other things, there's no evidence that you ever submitted this during your military appeals. And because you never submitted it, um, you cannot now present it as new evidence to me. Therefore, I'm not going to uh provide you relief or reverse your court martial conviction. And so I'm like, at this time representing myself, I'm like, hold on, I submitted this six times. What are you talking about? I showed him all the times I submitted it, and so clearly someone from the DOD had gotten, and I want to say I'm speculating, because I went to the judge six times and showed him, look, sir, and I got all the motions, some of them on my website. So I've submitted this evidence six times. What are you talking about? And so uh the federal rule says that from the time that a district court gives its decision, you have 60 days to file your notice to appeal. And so again, I'm not I'm not an attorney, and so I'm thinking that okay, every time he gives me a new decision from a reconsideration motion, that resets that 60-day clock. Well, it doesn't. And so I finally filed my notice to appeal, like 120 days later. Um the appellate courts ruled against me and says, hey, uh you filed your appeals too late, therefore your pills is done. All right. And so I refiled here in Alabama, highlighting what um happened in the Fourth Federal District Court with the with the uh district attorney and the judge there. All of a sudden, Judge Tringa, now we're looking at three years later, reopens my case, right? So now he's saying something differently because I'm telling, right? They've seen that I've who you know I've been offered for.

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:29

I see another set of eyes are looking at it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:27:31

Yeah, yeah. And so he rules now that, well, I'm not saying that you never submitted this evidence, but you never submitted this evidence to the judge at the Air Force. I'm sorry, to the court, to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals. Therefore, I'm still my position still remains the same. And again, he just totally just gave an answer because in order for anything to get submitted to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals, you got to first submit it to the judge advocate general. That's in any that's in any service. Any new evidence after trial has to be submitted to the judge advocate general. And I did that. Um, and so you know, again, it's they're they're just covering up and so it's called legal legal maneuvering, legal or legal wrangling.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:10

They're finding legal legalities or they're finding little ways to continue to draw this case out and not address any of the issues that you and I would just say, and I wouldn't you're being generous.

SPEAKER_05: 1:28:22

I'm just saying flat out line because again, you know, in order to submit it to the courts, you got to submit to judge advocate journal. So again, he gave no legal argument from the military, he just said what he said. And so that's part of the reason why, you know, when you talk about RBC guys like me, you know, I'm really serious about you look at at some point if we don't get elected officials to do anything, then then heck, why not become one and try to do something?

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:45

And so I I agree, I agree. I I think about this all the time. We need to start our own political party. I mean, there there really needs to be. I I was reading in my my homework uh that there's 40% of adults uh are disgusted with both parties, uh basically. It's a pew study, and they are open to the idea of another party because they realize that both these parties all they do is vote along their party lines. They're not issue driven, they don't care about this issue in the military at all, at all. I mean, I'm completely convinced the only reason that they will care or step up about this issue is if it's politically uh advantageous to do so. So if it if it suits their particular agenda at a particular time. Again, this isn't talking about people on an individual level. This is talking about the system. The system is completely broken. And it is going to take, like you said, veterans to step up and to take control of their country and run for office, or join a political party, or join a campaign. And yes, I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and I know I need to do the same as I get more educated about this process because it it just disgusts me to see what has been going on. In fact, there was a uh question that I asked last night in my phone call. I won't name names uh in my class, and I just said, has it the dysfunction in Congress for someone who'd been working a staffer for I think six years, has the has the dysfunction got better, worse, stayed the same, just more transparent? And he said, No, absolutely. Yeah, you can talk to any of the congressmen or any of the people who who work in DC and they will tell you it has gotten way more dysfunctional to do the simplest things. So uh by all means, I mean, if you're working in a toxic environment every day, it's no, it's no wonder that laws don't get passed or bills get watered down or appropriation bills can't get signed or whatever it is that's going on there. So it's just really sad to watch. And like you said, what what what are we going to do as veterans to step up and fix it? So um, okay, so this is kind of where things stand. I know you're you're doing some other work behind the scenes to try to try to continue to work this process.

SPEAKER_05: 1:31:00

So kudos to the current administration, kudos to the current uh Air Force leadership. Uh I had a uh a call a couple months ago uh with a Q fe with a few key folks in the Air Force, and so we're the government shutdown slowed a lot of things down, and so they're starting to re ramp things up, and so hopefully I'll be hearing uh um some good news um relatively soon. Uh ultimately, my ask is to meet with the sec deaf um to get reinstated, and then what I would like to do is um to get reinstated.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:30

So you mean get reinstated to the Air Force?

SPEAKER_05: 1:31:33

Yes, yes. And so my wow if it happens, look, look, uh you can you can dream big. They can make they make this declared go home, right? Go home. We're done with you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:42

But my ask is Wow, what a success story that would be.

SPEAKER_05: 1:31:45

So my ask is we we gotta you know, we've got to look at the folks who are left behind. And so my ask would be promote me to one star. Let's create a task force. I've got some folks who I will want on my task force with me. I'll report directly to SecDef and we'll look at all these bad convictions uh over the past, you know, from 2010 to the present, and we will go through them. Give me two 24 months, and and sir, here's a list of convictions that should stand. Here's a list of those that were affected by UCI. And uh then I'll sail off into the sunset and and enjoy my grandkids, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:19

Well, I I wish you just just the best. As I'm sitting here listening to you, I'm like, man, I'd I I'd work for you. I mean, Clarence, you you're you're an inspiration, you really are. And I'm so sorry this happened to you. And I wish there's more that I could do other than just give you this time on this podcast. I mean, you you deserve this and so much more because you that's the truth. You not only have told your story and shared your case, I mean, I'm just hearing just I mean, the people that are on this call, it it is by the way, just to all the guys that have fought these cases and Arvis and and and Darren and Mark, Martel, all these guys, it's it's a it's a powerful group of advocates. I'm gonna say that. I mean, since I've been covering these cases, uh, you're probably like maybe my eighth or my ninth or something along those lines. And you guys are a very, very powerful group of individuals. And you've been you you you've been given something or not given. You've been unfortunately just though like I say, it's like the worst thing in society to get that scarlet letter of a sex crime and and to be able to rise above that and to still build a life, to still go on and get married, to still go on and work, to still go and believe in God and to believe in the humanity of people. It's just such a success story. And and I just I can't thank you guys enough for giving me the opportunity to tell this story, and I will do whatever it takes to help you and and to help get these stories out because I know it is it really does take take a village of different advocates who are coming together to to try to re-examine these cases and to bring justice back. If we can reinstate the COVID guys and we can make their cases right, which I know they're trying to do, then we can do the same thing for for the men who were falsely accused and and some women too, but let's be real here. It's mostly men. So I I I really, really wish you all the best as as you work through this process. Is there anything else that I didn't ask you, or anything else you want to bring up in this call?

SPEAKER_05: 1:34:15

I think you covered it. Just want to give a shout out to Arvis Owens for linking us up. Also give a shout-out to Darren Lopez. You mentioned him, he's got a book, uh UCI versus military, something to that effect.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:26

Yep, and then you got T Terrence, Terry Anderson. What up, my bro?

SPEAKER_05: 1:34:30

Terry, look, look, Terry is Terry and I played basketball together at Enterprise, and he's got some stories on me that we're gonna probably have to like bury Terry. So the story will never meet the light of day. But Terry is a good friend of mine. Again, just I let me tell you, uh, God has been so good to me. I've got a huge support system here in Alabama. Um, and and so again, you know, when it's all said and done, I do have some political aspirations. This would be my platform because, you know, again, it you know, what you know, when life throws you lemons, you make lemonade, and this is this is my lemonade. And and so, and I'm and I'm and I'm serious about it. I don't mind talking, I don't mind advocating for folks too. And so um, but again, just wanted to say thank you, Teresa. It's not easy doing what you're doing, and so but we need you, and and we're so glad that you're you're on our side, and and ultimately just just we're just for justice. That's all we are for.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:22

I I just I just I want to see you guys get that justice, and I won't stop talking about it, you know, to the chagrin of some of my lawyer friends. I will never stop talking about this until that justice is had. And I will keep bringing these stories and I will keep doing these calls because I believe in you and I believe that this is so important to fix. And we need to we need to feel safe in our working environments. That's the bottom line. We need to know that when we go to serve our country and we're willing to die for our country, that the military will keep us safe from harm. And this is harming our service members. So it just has to be fixed, has to be rectified. I believe in you, and I do believe that a task force would be an amazing idea uh to rectify this issue. So I wish you all the best. I'll meet you backstage as I go full screen, but thank you so much, Clarence, for coming on and sharing your story. I agree. All right, guys. Thank you. Long call, but you guys knew it was gonna be like that. Uh, thank you so much for joining me. I will be back at it this Thursday and then another two weeks off. I kind of do that. I bunch it all up and then I and then I take some time off and enjoy myself for a little while. So, as I always in these calls, please take care of yourselves. Please take care of each other. Please go on Clarence's website, read his story, read his files, see all the research that I did, and I think that you'll understand why I'm so passionate about this issue. All right, guys, take care of yourselves.