Betrayal of Command | Asad Khan - S.O.S. #252

A Marine officer who helped open Pakistan’s gateway to Afghanistan, coordinated CSAR basing, and carried the keys to a shuttered Kabul embassy steps into the studio to talk about combat, command, and the price of telling the truth. We walk through the early days after 9/11—commercial flights into Rawalpindi with a rucksack full of radios, late-night negotiations for overflight and basing, and the scramble to build humane, lawful processes as refugees surged and detainee operations strained capacity. Then we move to the mountains, where a lean battalion landing team rewrote SOPs, trained NCOs from scratch, welded armor onto Humvees, and led local militias with a blend of trust and hard boundaries. The outcomes were stark: historic enemy losses, zero fratricide, and a unit that fought for months on grit and discipline.

What makes this story different isn’t just the firefights—it’s the candor about strategy and culture. We question whether invasion was the only path to bin Laden, explore how local networks and precise incentives could have achieved ends without buying the whole country, and detail the cost of confusing occupation with victory. We also pull back the curtain on headquarters-versus-field dynamics: pressure to bomb without positive ID, awards gaming, and media optics that overshadowed months of deprivation and risk. When investigations arrived over “harsh language,” the larger lesson became impossible to ignore: institutions often reward silence and punish truth, even when results in the field are undeniable.

 A practical field guide to moral courage—covering leadership under pressure, accountability, and hard-earned Afghanistan war lessons, with an unfiltered look at the ethics of command from someone who was there and believes we can do better. 

Stories of Service features guests sharing their personal experiences and opinions in their own words. Statements are not independently verified, and views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the host, producers, government agencies, or affiliates. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening, Guest Intro, And Book Premise
• 12:45 Immigrant Roots And Choosing The Marine Corps
• 20:45 Duty, Citizenship, And America’s Example
• 28:10 9/11, CENTCOM Brief, And Pakistan Mission
• 41:55 Building Access, CSAR Basing, And Renditions
• 52:30 Opening Kabul Embassy And Early Ops
• 59:20 Was Invading Afghanistan The Right Call
• 1:08:20 Culture, Strategy, And Working With Tribes
• 1:16:30 Forming A BLT Under Pressure

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Imagine being so trusted by your leadership that you were handpicked to go to Pakistan to facilitate the early combat operations of Afghanistan. You also coordinated directly with Brigadier General Mathis for access to Pakistan basing, assisted with the rescue of Christian missionaries trapped in Kabul prison, then later tasked by the ambassador to open the embassy in Afghanistan, which had been closed for 15 years. And then for four months you were in Pakistan from September 2001 to March of 2002 doing work as well. And you led your Marines in combat for four months in the big in the mountains of Afghanistan, working with militia, Afghanistan warlords, and Afghanistan leaders. Your numbers of fighters killed were historic. The proportions of Marines killed versus the enemy war outstanding and historic. But beside all that, you still are fired by your command for politics and for reasons that we'll get into in the Stories of Service podcast.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Teresa. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06

Well, absolutely. I can't wait to get into this show. This is such an important conversation. Welcome all to the Stories of Service Podcast, ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service, Teresa Carpenter. And to get this started, as we always do, an intro from my father, Charlie Pickard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23

From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service, hosted by Teresa Carpenter. Here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57

And then he did something far rarer. He spoke honestly about what went wrong after several years. A retired U.S. Marine, Lieutenant Colonel Kahn, commanded a Marine Infantry Battalion landing team during Operation Enduring Freedom. From the inside, he witnessed not just the chaos of war, but the quiet failures of senior leadership, the erosion of accountability, and the widening gap between political objectives and battlefield reality. And in this episode of SOS, today he's going to join us to discuss his new book already with I just checked 87 reviews on Amazon, 4.9 stars, Betrayal of Command, which is a firsthand self-published account of combat leadership and the moral weight of command decisions in Afghanistan. Today we're going to talk about what junior leaders were asked to execute, what senior leaders failed to own, and how institutional incentives rewarded silence over to truth. We'll also dive into his work on Centennial 360, where Khan examines uncomfortable questions about national security, civil military risk, and the use of military force in a system increasingly allergic to accountability. And this is not a partisan conversation, make no mistake. It is a professional one about duty, honesty, and what happens when loyalty to the institution conflicts with the loyalty to the truth. Welcome again, Assad.

SPEAKER_03: 3:12

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 3:14

Absolutely. So for those of you who are not familiar with your story, uh tell us a little bit about your backstory because I believe this is so important to where you got, how you got to where you are today, and why this battle in Afghanistan was so personally meaningful for you.

SPEAKER_03: 3:30

Yeah, so my family immigrated uh from Pakistan uh, you know, in uh early 1970s, 1970. I was about nine, 10 years old. And we ended up uh we came over as refugees because of political turmoil in Pakistan, and we ended up settling in uh in Connecticut. I went to school in uh public school initially in uh in West Hartford, Connecticut, and then ended up going to boarding school uh because I was getting in a little bit of trouble uh as a young kid. And uh after that, I went to college in uh Boston, Massachusetts, got a business degree, and ended up uh joining the Marine Corps because I was really inspired by uh by Marines. And in the interim there, I joined the Army because a friend talked me into it. You know, you got an extra buddy stripe, and uh, you know, I was good. Went to Fort Dix, boot camp there, was stationed down at Fort Rucker, Alabama. Didn't really enjoy the Army, it wasn't for me. Uh, but the Marine Corps was. I really uh I loved it. I loved every bit of it. I loved OCS, I loved going to uh the basic school, and uh I loved going to the infantry officer school. And uh after that I got assigned to uh 1st Battalion 7th Marines um in Camp Pendleton, California, and then went down to MCRD San Diego as a series officer and company commander at the drill field. Uh did 15 cycles, and my uh, you know, the biggest uh reward there was, aside from graduating 5,000 Marines, was uh never having lost a drill instructor. And the main reason for that was I built trust with them and I was always around. I figured if I was around, uh they wouldn't do anything crazy or stupid. And uh then after the drill field, um went to the amphibious warfare school. Uh then I went uh to Saudi Arabia for a year, trained uh the Royal Saudi uh Marine Forces, came back, went to uh 1st Battalion, 2nd Marines as a company commander, uh battalion opso and battalion executive officer. Following that, went to the Naval War College, and I was the I was one of the 16 uh officers selected for the School of West War Fighting, which is a second-year program. And following that, I went to the MACTAF staff training program, uh, where I was uh co-authored two uh doctrinal publications. The first one was a Marine Corps planning process, and the second one was uh uh Marine Corps operations. And uh from there I went down to Camp Pendleton. I was selected for battalion command and uh awaiting battalion command. I was at the 2nd Marine Division as G3 plans officer uh when 9-11 happened, and then the story kind of takes off. Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 5:58

What was it about the Marine Corps that inspired you to go towards that path versus any of the other branches?

SPEAKER_03: 6:07

I think part of it's my family legacy in the book I talk about it, my ancestors, right? Every one of them's been in the military, as far as you know, I can go back like four great grandfathers. Uh and you know, in that part of the world, you know, nothing is really written down, it's all stories that they tell you. So I was always inspired by the stories. I was inspired by my uncles, and I talk about that in the book. I was inspired by my father. So the military tradition and being in the military is a strong part of our who we are and our DNA. And uh, so I, you know, and and and when I joined the army initially, it wasn't really that challenging, it wasn't really that demanding. Uh, you know, I was a young enlisted troop, and uh, you know, as a post-Vietnam army, uh, people just you know, hiding and sliding, in my opinion. So uh and after college, you know, I wanted something challenging, and I wanted to be able to give something back to the country that allowed my family and I refuge. And I think that was so damn important. And as a result, I'm damn proud of my son, you know, that he also joined the joined the Marines. He went to Naval Academy and ended up serving the Marines as an infantry officer as well. Uh so you know, so we've given back to the country, uh, you know, that's for me is uh is uh you know by choice that gave us refuge, my family and I. So I'm I'm very much indebted to it. I really believe in it strongly. I mean, everywhere I go, I've got you know copy of the Constitution with me at all times. Um and uh and I believe in it, all of it. Not just, you know, not I'm not just a Second Amendment guy or the Fourth Amendment, you know. I believe in all of it. Uh so I think it's important for us to uh to give something back to the nation. Uh and we've sort of forgotten that, you know, what you know, the words of President Kennedy, you know, ask not what you can do for this country, uh, or ask you know what the you know this country can do for you. It's what what can you do for this country? And I'm paraphrasing, but uh those those those words uh resonated with me. And uh unfortunately, you know, I don't see the leadership, and this isn't I'm very apolitical, I don't belong to any political party or anything like that, but we got to stay united as a nation uh because there's nothing better out there. I've traveled to more than a hundred countries on this planet, and let me tell you something, we're the best we got, and uh, and all of us have to give something back to this nation. I I fundamentally believe in it very strongly.

SPEAKER_01: 8:15

I do too, I do too, and I think there's many ways to give back too. I don't always think that giving back means serving in the military. It could be absolutely serving in AmeriCorps if they still have a MeriCorps. I know back in the day they had the Peace Corps or serving in local office in government or serving in a nonprofit. There are so many ways to give back and be of service. Even what we're doing right here on these on this podcast. This is a another way of giving back and being of service.

SPEAKER_03: 8:42

Just be a good citizen. I mean, that's the whole thing. Be a good citizen, you know. Just just don't be a dirt bag on the street and demanding everything and being pissed off at the rest of the world. That's that's not what America is all about. We, you know, I remember as a young kid, we used to look at America as that beacon on the hill. You know, that's the way I viewed America. And uh unfortunately, we've forgotten how the rest of the world looks up to us. And uh, it's just like being a leader uh or being an officer or being a staff and CEO. Uh, you you have the, you know, America is that staff NCO, that NCO, that officer that the rest of the world looks up to you. We got to lead by example. It's so damn important. And uh when I see these dirt bags out there, you know, I mean, I was in California last year, and uh, these people on the street and fentanyl or whatever the hell they're taking, uh, it was mind-blowing to me. How can a human life waste itself just you know, just on the street like that, on drugs? And we got to stop this nonsense. The world looks up to us, and we gotta make sure we're setting the right damn example.

SPEAKER_01: 9:40

So that's right. No, I agree, I agree with you 100%. And my heart goes out to anybody that lives in those states where crime has uh been allowed to go rampant. I go to the University of San Francisco, and I have to stay somewhere close to the University of San Francisco when I go to my college because it's a hybrid program, and so three times a year I'm required to travel there. And I was shocked at how bad downtown San Francisco has become. I thought I was staying in somewhat of a decent area. I researched it, I thought it was okay, and I had never seen people literally wasting away the way I saw them on the streets of downtown San Francisco. I mean, to the point where like people couldn't even stand up, like men were just slouched over, pants hanging down around their ankles, like literally just dying in the streets. And we're not doing anything about it. I I just it it blew my mind. I I did not, I mean, I see the stuff on YouTube and I see people doing these videos, but to see it in person and not be able to do anything about it, it was it it really stuck with stuck with me about this this idea. And I've heard in a lot of these states, I know we're getting a little more on the political side and we'll transition back to your story, but oh my God, like to see that there are places where crime isn't even uh punished of uh below a certain amount is what I've been told anyway. And to see that being reflected in the streets of San Francisco was really eye-opening.

SPEAKER_03: 11:12

So uh, you know, as I mentioned, I traveled quite a quite a great deal. And uh whenever I come back and land in the United States, I'm telling you, it's like coming back to uh an underdeveloped country because the rest of the world is advancing rapidly. They've got brand new infrastructure, uh, they've got law and order, and uh they've got pride, and that's the most important thing. Uh, and uh, you know, as I said, I'm apolitical. Uh but we gotta, you know, good people gotta stand up and set the right example and make sure we stay united. And that's one of the reasons I started the Sentinel channel to talk about these things, and we'll get into that later on. But it's so damn important that we remember the rest of the world is looking up to us, and we got to set the right example, every one of us, every American.

SPEAKER_01: 11:57

Absolutely, absolutely, and they still do, thankfully. I was at NATO last year, and that was one of the things that motivated me to keep on keeping on with the military at the time was how much respect the other nations had for the United States and the way that I was treated. So I know that we still have that within us, and that is why, as we discussed earlier, apolitical myself, I will call out balls and strikes as I see them. But I I do want this administration and I do want Hague Seth to succeed because I do believe that their emphasis on merit, their emphasis on accountability is what we need. And I've seen what happens when we don't have that. So back to your story. Tell us a little bit about the beginning of why you went to Afghanistan in the early days of the war, how that took place and what it was like for you getting on the ground.

SPEAKER_03: 12:52

Yeah, so I mean, so what happened was, you know, I saw I was at G3 plans at uh 2nd Marine Division, and I failed to mention that as I'm I'm also a foreign area officer uh for South Asia and Middle East. And when 9-11 happened, I knew right there and then I was gonna get involved in this. And I got called on a CENTCOM. And uh at the time, the deputy commander of CENTCOM, we used to call him Sinx back then, was uh Lieutenant General Rifle DeLong, a Marine General, and I commenced to uh you know help with the planning effort. And uh I was giving him a brief about uh Afghanistan, and I told him, I said, you know, the Taliban are not the Mujahideen's that fought the Soviets back in the 70s and uh 80s. Uh, these guys are scholars. I mean, they're they're they're literally Islamic scholars, and uh, we're gonna go through them like uh shit that goes through goose, you know. And uh because and and uh and it but in the process, if we lose Pakistan, I said the World Trade Center is gonna be in Astraton. And he's like, What are you talking about? I said, Well, they, you know, I understand the jihadi mindset and uh Pakistan got strategic weapons, they fall in the wrong hands. We're in deep shit. And uh that kind of blew his mind because the problem just went from you know from this to this. And uh so the brief was supposed to be about 45 minutes long. We're two and a half hours or so into it, and and you know, a lot of the colonels and other generals that are sitting around are just coming up with dumb ideas like dropping Korans out of the airplanes and all this nonsense, you know. And uh I'm just and I was kind of leaning on the podium, you know, and and uh and uh listening to this horse shit, and uh, you know, and all of a sudden, um, you know, he and he said, uh, Colonel, uh, you're talking Armageddon. And I was I was flipping, I was wrong. And I said, Your war is not mine, General. And he freaking lost it. He went berserk on me, threw me out of the room. I went down to the planning cell, I grabbed my stuff. I was gonna drive back to uh Camp Le June, and my one star comes on, he's Genghis, where are you going? I said, Sir, he fired me. I'm I'm I'm leaving. You know, I had a battalion waiting for me. So I was like, you know, in my mind, I'm like, I'm still okay. And they said, No, he didn't fire you, he wants to see you. So I went up to his suite up there, he's uh and he's like, get in here. And I was like, uh, he's uh I want you to go over there. I'm like, do what, sir? He goes, I don't know, but you know the area, just go over there, be my eyes and ears. So I'm like, Roger that. So I got on, I got on a commercial flight, believe it or not, out of Dulles and uh to London, and then hopped a PIA flight into uh Ravelpindi in those days, that's where the airport was. And uh, you know, I had all this uh communications uh gear on my backpack because I had to keep it on my body, and there's no vehicles from the embassy, and uh so I ended up taking a taxi, believe it or not. That's crazy. Uh yeah, it was it was um uh it was mind blowing. And I told the driver, I didn't tell him I want to go to the U.S. Embassy. I told him, hey, take me to Serena Hotel. So he takes me to Serena Hotel. We got the hotel, I told him take a right, take a left, and pretty soon there's you know police checkpoints, and we couldn't go any further. I hop out and I go to the embassy, and uh it's ironic. I didn't realize you know how an embassy really operated, but there was a few uh military people there at the embassy at the time. So we just basically cobbled together a planning sale and an operation sale, and uh, because we knew Pakistan was going to be important because that was the only pathway to get into Afghanistan, the airspace. And uh, you know, fortunately we had a great Air Force general, uh phenomenal one star that happened to be there, and uh a couple of Air Force Lieutenant Colonels. These guys are awesome. I mean, just you know, heroes, in my opinion. And uh, you know, because I didn't I didn't know anything about aviation. I mean, heck and uh so we set up these pathways through uh Pakistan, coordinated with the Pakistan military, and uh so while everything was going on up north with the special forces, uh the you know, the Marine Force was going to come up from the south. Uh Task Force 58, we bring General Mattis and coordinated all that. But the problem was as soon as we, you know, everybody thinks that we can just go around and start bombing all over the place. And you really can't do that because if you lose an aircraft or you lose a pilot, uh you have to have some CSAR capability, combat search and rescue. And that's basically, you know, our special operations helicopters that go in there, and I don't want to get in too much detail that can rescue the pilot, bring them back out. The Marines are good at that, and other, you know, there's other units in our inventory that's very good at it. And to do that, you have to have basing in close proximity to where the bombing's gonna happen, adjacent countries generally. And Pakistan was one of them. So we we got that basing, and uh and the Pakistanis were frankly quite helpful in doing all that. They were like, Yeah, no problem. In many cases, they were more responsive than our own military was, you know, because we had ATO cycles, we had to request aircraft and all this stuff. But the Pakistani military is like, uh, you know, when do you need the aircraft? You know, I said, when will it, you know, when will the aircraft be available? And they said, uh, as soon as you get to the airport, we'll have it ready, you know. So half an hour, 45-minute drive to the airport, and we're launching, you know. So I mean it was really good. Uh so we set up that whole thing, the first tour, and then uh the problem was as soon as you started bombing, we had thousands and hundreds of thousands of refugees and uh you know bad bad people also coming across the border. So our mandate was to catch all the foreigners. We didn't really care about the Afghans coming across, or um, but we wanted especially the Arab speakers, we wanted them. So the Pakistanis uh you know detained them, and pretty soon their you know their detention facilities are overflowing, and they're like, hey, what do we do with all these people? Sure. And uh then we had to set up a program to be able to uh rendition them. So we started the first rendition program and uh started taking them away. And I and I think I go into that in in the book as well. And uh then from there, uh, you know, then then we had to go. The ambassador called me one day, hey, we gotta get into Kabul and open the embassy. Now I'm I'm I have no clue how to open an embassy, you know. I'm just a marine infantryman. So you know, like a dumbass, I asked her, uh ma'am, how do you open an embassy? And she's a colonel, the marine colonel's daughter, tough lady. Uh, and uh so she looked over her glasses, she's like, You're a marine colonel, figure it out. And I was like, holy shit, yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01: 18:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 18:51

And uh, you know, so and and and the good thing was she gave me the assets that were needed, right? And so we got you know a marine uh artillery battery. We flew into Bagram, drove down to Kabul, and um, you know, opened the embassy and all that. And then I got pulled aside for a couple of special missions uh because of my language skills. So I ran around with uh you know a lot of special forces, marine force recon units and and what and whatnot, and uh, you know, then came back to the US uh to take over uh my battalion.

SPEAKER_01: 19:21

Right. And and I want to stop you real quick to just ask a question. Uh, what do you there's a lot of people who wonder, like, do you think it was the right decision to go into Afghanistan after 9-11 and do what we did as a um as as I guess retribution for for 9 11? Or or what is what is your thoughts on that uh based on your experience and and because you were actually on the ground when when these events happened? Because it's it is still to this day debatable, and there are people who think that 9 11 was an inside job. I mean, there's all these conspiracy theories out there about it, and I'm curious from your perspective. Because of the fact that we we tend to do a lot of foreign intervention with not a lot of thought about nation building. And that's one of the key, I think, takeaways I had when I went through my joint military education. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

SPEAKER_03: 20:15

Yeah, I mean, so you know, one thing about war is nobody can control it. Right. Right. I mean, we don't know where it's gonna go. I think Klaus was talked about it. Sun Tzu talks about it, and you know, all the war colleges talk about it. So uh, you know, I think it was a knee-jerk emotional reaction by our administration at the time for primarily for revenge. I remember that uh President Bush arbitrarily picked the date, October 7th or whatever, that he wanted, you know, bobs bombs started dropping. We weren't ready for it, quite frankly. And uh, you know, while CIA and and and the special forces had operations going on up north, uh, but in my view, you know, if the if the if the prize was getting bin Laden, we there's 50 other ways of getting him, right? We spent trillions of dollars in Afghanistan, thousands of lives lost, uh hundreds of thousands more on the other side, and I'm talking innocent civilians and whatnot. Uh and uh, you know, we could have done it on the cheap. And I remember having discussions in the embassy in the bubble, and my point and people thought I was nuts.

SPEAKER_01: 21:21

And when you say cheap, do you mean CIA and special forces?

SPEAKER_03: 21:24

No, I mean just put a billion dollars on his head, you know. So initially, the initially the ransom you know was five million, then we went when we bumped it up to like 15 and then 25 million. And my thing was, you know, be decisive, put a billion dollars on his head. Somebody will spend a hundred million to go find him and bring him to us, you know, and uh that's the way that's the way the world works, right? And if we were and people thought I was nuts when I brought that up, you know, are you you know, did you get enough sleep last night, Colonel? Yeah, you're damn right I got enough sleep, you know. And uh, but once you once you decide to invade a country, you just bought it, you broke it and you bought it, and you got all these refugees, you disrupted the status quo, and uh, you know, Iraq is another great example. So, you know, I I wish somebody had just taken there was no rush to go into Afghanistan. It was an impulsive decision. And if we just waited and thought through this whole thing, uh, there's a hundred different ways of getting bin Laden.

SPEAKER_01: 22:17

And and and trust me, I could have gotten them, you know, uh a lot cheaper, a lot faster, uh, you know, by uh using um available resources in that region, and using your networks on the ground as a subject matter expert and as somebody who could build that rapport, and that's what we'll get into when you were a battalion landing commander. And I think that's one of the biggest takeaways I got from your book was the fact that there is such a big difference between hanging out in a fob and then being on the ground with the people who live there and run the country, and we'll run the country once you're gone. And yeah, that was a a part that I felt was missing from the way that you led versus the way that your boss led.

SPEAKER_03: 22:57

And and by some reports, Mola Omar was ready to give him up, you know. Uh, but uh we you know, but once once you and as you well know, once you unleash the military, it's tough, tough to bring it back, right? Once those airplanes launch and the bonds are dropping, it's tough to turn it around. Yeah, and it's a decision that has to be taken with great caution. And especially when you when you decide to go invade a country, and once we go in, I got it, you know. So we didn't really fulfill our objective because he took off to Torobora and went into Montserra, came down to Abtaba, and just so happened, my family compound was probably uh five miles or something, you know, straight line distance from where bin Laden was found, you know. And and so and and so so we didn't really achieve our objective if he was an objective. Then we decided, hey, we're gonna go in there, we're gonna spread democracy and all this happy horse shit. You know, it's a it's a country that's been there for thousands of years. Alexander the Great couldn't control it, it wore him out, you know, and and I and I and I and I'm dead serious. And I and I and I say this to a lot of you know, when I speak to senior officers, I bring this up. You know, do you know the name of Alexander the Great's wife? Do you know that, Teresa? I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 24:06

I do not.

SPEAKER_03: 24:07

Okay, you don't. Uh, and Alexander the Great was uh known to be a homosexual or a bisexual, right? But he he was married, and his wife's western name was uh Roxana, ro Roxanne, her eastern name is Roxana. So I'm starting to think, how the hell and Kondar is named after Alexander the Great. So I'm starting to think, well, who the hell what's uh what's this Roxana stuff? I started digging into it, and guess where Roxana was from? Where Samarkand, modern day Uzbekistan. Alexander the Great was so damn smart that he figured out that for me to be able to control these tribes, I gotta get married into them. So he married somebody from that area, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01: 24:46

He integrated himself with yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03: 24:50

So I used to tell our general officers if you're serious about Afghanistan, you need to go over there and get married, and I'll find you a wife without a beard, you know. And they thought I was nuts. But I mean, think about it. If you're truly serious about it, but if you're gonna do these six-month, one, one, one-year deployments and just waste times and waste lives and waste resources, then you're just you know, you know, it's just a stagecraft, then it's just a bunch of horseshit, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01: 25:12

Yeah, no, and I just had a contracting officer who spent time in the ground on Afghan in Afghanistan last week, and he confirmed all the shenanigans when it comes to fraud and waste, and we just allowed so many things, and you talked about it too in your book, uh, instances of that happening. And that that's really what is unfortunate. I think one of the best parts of your book, and and let's now let's transition for the people who haven't read the book. What was it like for you on the early stages of you're in a battalion landing team? What mu were you with again?

SPEAKER_03: 25:44

I was with uh 22nd Mew, 22nd, 2nd Marines.

SPEAKER_01: 25:48

Yeah, for first battalion, 2nd Marines, and you deployed on which LA?

SPEAKER_03: 25:52

Sorry, I had 1st Battalion, 6th Marines that became a BLT battalion landing team. And the big difference is a Marine Infantry Battalion is roughly about 800 people. Once it becomes a battalion landing team, it sort of grows into about 1200 people. You know, it gets a tank platoon, it gets an LAV platoon, which is called LAR, it'll get an engineer platoon, it'll get a reconnaissance platoon, and it'll get an artillery battery. So it really mushrooms up, you know, from 800 to about 1200 people.

SPEAKER_01: 26:17

And you had a real challenge on your hands, even going into this deployment, because you, I if I remember correctly from your book, you had a lot of people switch out and transfer or or new people come in right before you deployed. And even with that, your your team performed exceptionally well during the training cycle. Am I correct in that?

SPEAKER_03: 26:41

Yeah, you know, but that but that's really in par for the course in the Marine Corps, quite frankly, because you know, the headquarters marine corps sets you up for failure, you know, and and and I and I because it's a marine corps culture of doing everything the hard way. We're Marines, we're gonna do something, you know, everything hard. Uh, we're gonna make our people suffer. Uh, and and that's fine because you know, we sort of feed off that, you know, that's our that's our ethos, and that's okay. Uh, but you shouldn't set up your your your operational units up for failure. I mean, that's so damn important. And headquarters Marine Corps, you know, and I don't think it's uh it does a great disservice to combat units uh because this sets you up for failure, not personal failure, uh, but mission failure, you know, and and accidents. A great example is in 2020, there's an AAV that sunk off the coast of California. You remember that incident? Oh, I do.

SPEAKER_01: 27:28

It was the XO of my old ship, USS Nimitz, who ended up getting uh quite a bit of trouble over that. So I'm very familiar with that incident.

SPEAKER_03: 27:35

And and and here's the deal, okay? Those AAVs were deadlined. But we gave them to the BLT rather than giving up, you know, so they had to go around scrunching parts and stuff, putting all this stuff together, uh, and and the accident happened, right? And and and a whole bunch of people got relieved and fired, even the battalion commander who happened to be one of my lieutenants. Uh, you know, I won't take any names, but you know, a really good officer, you know. Uh uh he he ended up getting relieved for for a mistake that what the Marine Corps, the comrade of the Marine Corps, if he was a man of honor, a man of courage, I would have fired myself. So ultimately I'm responsible. And it goes back to we keep making these same damn same damn mistakes over and over again, the Beirut bombing. You know, when Marines at the gate weren't allowed to have ammunition, right? And guess what? Nobody got held accountable for that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:27

You're reminding me of the McCain and the Fitzgerald, the Navy ships who that were not adequately trained to be where they were and to have the kinds of navigation equipment that they had on board or the amount of sleep that they had, and those accidents happened. And what do they do? They in good old-fashioned military orbit, they just they just cut chop off the heads of the commanding officers and the lower level.

SPEAKER_03: 28:54

Yeah, yeah, problem solved, but there's no lessons learned from it. Because obviously they uh trust and confidence we relieved them, but they don't tell you the reasons why, and what are the lessons that were learned? That's the important part, right? So, in in the case of 1-6, uh, you know, when I took over the battalion, we had 300 uh non-deployables. They basically gutted the battalion uh and and took uh 178 Marines were pulled out of 16 that were deployable and sent them to other battalions to go to Iraq, right? So in return, they gave me 300 non-deployables. Uh, you know, of the 71 sergeants that the battalion is supposed to have, I had 18. All new staff, all new uh uh officers, and all new chiefs, all new company commanders. I mean, and and uh, and then we got approximately 400 new Marines all the way up to one month before deploying. Now, my job is to you know train them and get them ready for combat. How the hell do you train a young Marine, a young PFC coming out of school of infantry uh one month before deployment and talk about unit unit cohesion and teaching them all the SOPs and the standards? How do you do that? I you know, but but you know the the the bottom line is you you bust your ass and you make it work. Yeah, and you can do it. Yeah, and and and let me tell you something. Uh your training has to be harder than combat. If you want to succeed in combat, you got to train harder. It's really that simple. So we expended over a million 5.56 rounds, a million of them, right? Uh, to teach making sure everybody could shoot over 300,000 link rounds uh just for training, right? We had to rewrite every new SOP. Now remember, initially we were a battalion, so we had to rewrite all the battalion SOPs, right? Then all of a sudden you become a BLT, which is a whole different mission set, and you got to write their SOP. So that takes time and energy, and you got to train to those SOPs, otherwise they're just you know a piece of paper. Uh so you know, so so everybody's working their asses off. Uh, and to train our NCOs, uh we set up our own combat leaders course. But uh all the staff NCOs and you know, Sergeant Major and First Arm taught the course to make sure the Marines were trained, uh, because we're not waiting on the Marine Corps. If you wait on the Marine Corps, it ain't gonna happen. We didn't have up-armored Humvees. I mean, think about this. They're sending these Marines to combat. You know they're using IEDs, and the freaking Marine Corps can't give you up-armored um Humvees, right? So, what do we do? You know, I'm not putting up with this nonsense because those are my, you know, I treat I have the same responsibility to my Marines as as I do to my kids. So we went out and got metal steel plates, okay? And we found out of this 300 non-deployables, the welders and stuff, uh, you know, to cut these plates, we welded them onto our Humvees. That's then I got some mass sergeant comes down from uh the MEF Marine Expeditionary Force and says, you know, knocks on my door, sir. I'm Mass Sergeant so and so. And uh, do you realize that you've done illegal maintenance on our on the Humvees? And I looked at him, I said, Matt Mass Sergeant, are you going to Afghanistan with us? He's like, No, sir. I said, Get out of my office, you know. I threw him up and he went to the sergeant major and you know, come you know, cried to the sergeant major, the CEO just threw him out and sergeant major threw him out to go away. You know, we got work to do. So uh normally a battalion is given six months to form as a as a BLT. We were given three weeks. Think about that.

SPEAKER_01: 31:53

That's insane.

SPEAKER_03: 31:54

Six months, we were given three weeks, right? But you do your job, you're a Marine, right? Um, we formed as a BLT and uh, you know, and I happened to beat my uh, you know, the BLT or the Mu CO, you know, and uh we were like oil and uh water, not even your mu CO, just for the record, was uh who? Uh it was at the time, Colonel uh Frank McKenzie was the mu CO, you know. I mean, he's a really smart guy, really. I mean, much smarter than I am, but just different personalities, right? Uh very, very polished, uh, you know, and and and you know, in his own way, you know, I mean, it it is what it is. Very smart.

SPEAKER_01: 32:32

And and I will say that one thing I give you credit for too, during in the book, is that when he did approve of decisions that you wanted to move out on, or when you guys were in alignment, which which wasn't very often, but did happen, you gave him credit where credit was due. And I think that's what also bolstered your credibility throughout the book was the fact that he I think that he understood that you were a very strong leader and that he needed you, but then at the same time, he wanted that control. It was just this weird relationship. Did you and you knew from the beginning that this was going to turn into every everybody knew it?

SPEAKER_03: 33:14

I mean, when when they realize that we're matching up, you know, people are making bets I won't last six months, you know, and we get combat because we just came at things differently. Now, listen, let me tell you something. You know, I got nothing against the guy, I really don't, you know, he's just a different breed of cat, and and and we need those type of people also, right? You right? We talked about that. We yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, we don't we can't have all cons. We we need McKenzie's also, you know. It's sort of that uh, you know, once an eagle, right? Matt, uh, you know, the the the the two characters in Massingale and uh Sam Damon, right? So you need both to to make an organization. You just can't have all quarterbacks, you can't have all linebackers, right? You need both, and uh, and and the Marine Corps needs the McKenzie tights, but you can't let them get to the position uh where they're not being properly supervised, right? And that's so damn important. And I can go into the finer things of that, and that you know, but uh unfortunately, uh we allow some officers to just keep moving up based on uh there's no there's no uh objective evaluation criteria. Uh we don't we don't test them on their knowledge, we don't see how they do in the field, you know. Uh we do you know, going to the field for two days, anybody can do that. Going to the field four months, uh, like the uh Marines of 1.6 did, uh, that's pretty damn hard to do. And I think I was telling you before, you know, we wore one set of camis. That's all we wore for four four freaking months, four months, you know, no shower, no hot chow. Even on fourth of July, that you know, I'm I'm it really bites me and I'm so fired up about it. Yep, they wouldn't they wouldn't even bring my marine stakes, you know. Yeah, it's it was an unhappy independence day, and they came with some bullshit excuse that oh, our our aircraft aren't flying. And then I see two.

SPEAKER_01: 34:57

What about the day you you challenged him to go into combat? Tell tell a little bit about why you were on while you were on deployment and you had a conversation with him and said, Look, why don't you come out with my marines?

SPEAKER_03: 35:08

Tell tell us a little bit about yeah, he gave me an alternative letter of caution on some bullshit thing, you know, on some bullshit allegation. The whole point that people don't realize I was never alone. I was never alone, right? There's always Marines around me, you know, from radio operators uh to my opso to my air officer to my adjutant. I was always around Marines. So there's no way in hell would I have laid my hands on a Marine. I just couldn't have done it. And that's not my leadership style. Yeah, I'm intense, I'm fired up, you know, but I don't believe in that shit, right? You know, and that's why I said something at the outset, you know, 15 cycles in a drill field and I already drill instructor relieved. There's a reason for that, because you follow the SOP, and I don't believe in that stuff, right? Uh so anyway, so there's this bullshit allegation that I'd laid my hands on some turp. Never happened. Never happened, right? And they found out the allegation was nonsense, right? It was it was uh, and so so they but they did find out that I would uh I used harsh language. I mean, you gotta be shitting me. No, yeah. What the what these idiots didn't realize is you know, Marine Corps leadership is based on trust. My Marines trust me, I train with them. I you know, I they're my prize.

SPEAKER_01: 36:17

Yeah, you set the example, and everyone, by the way, if you read his book as I have, I mean, it's just filled with comments and anecdotes and even parts of the investigation where your Marines backed you up and they backed up the type of leader that you were. So this isn't just Asad and Teresa talking. I mean, this was a a score of people, and then even if you go on the comments on the Amazon reviews, you see even more people who served with you who have who have shared their thoughts. So, this, like I said, is not just Asad and Teresa talking and spouting our opinion. This is what I believe to be fact. Uh, based on my research, you know, Don Vandergriff is another one who is watching, I believe, the show right now. He also researched this, and you know, he said on my show that he thought you were the greatest battlefield commander of our generation. And I thought that was such a beautiful compliment. So I know you I know you don't take that, but that's what he said.

SPEAKER_03: 37:11

Let me tell you something, you know. My greatest attribute, my greatest flaw is I love my Marines too much, and and I do. I mean, and I'm proud of that, you know, and I'll I'll never regret that, you know. And I'll tell you what, I still get emotional about it. I'd lay my life down for them in a heartbeat. So who gives a shit about my career, you know, if I get relieved? I don't, you know, and and let me tell you something. If you're a combat officer and if you're not willing to die with your Marines or or sacrifice your career for them, you ain't worth a shit in my book. I mean, that's really that simple, and that's the type of officers we want in our in our military, and especially combat arms, right? Because these young kids, they have trust in you. And the point I was making is you know, you've you've got this leadership style where where your Marines trust you, but then you've got also these two to three hundred Afghan militia who are literally bandits and nobody wants to be around because any given day you could have three freaking war crimes with these guys, and they don't operate on trust, they operate on fear, and if they didn't fear you, they ain't gonna listen to you, they ain't gonna follow you. So I was caught in this conundrum between trust leadership style and this fear leadership style. I'm caught in the middle. There's no doctrinal pub written on it. Uh, nobody else could have done it, you know. Mackenzie couldn't have done it, and General Aynus, so whatever is hell, you know, hog tame or whatever the hell he calls himself, he couldn't have done it. And these are two clowns that judge me, and that's fine, you know. I have no problem with it. You know, I could have fought it then, I decided not to. You know, I was like, you know what? I'm out of here. But you know, I did my duty, I brought my Marines home. I'm exactly exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 38:32

And and I think it's pretty damn remarkable. I know you guys did lose uh one person in combat, but that shouldn't happen either. But to have just that, even as tragic as that was, is is is very, very remarkable. And as I was saying, back to that story, you did ask Colonel McKenzie if he ever led troops in combat.

SPEAKER_03: 38:50

And so because I use foul language, he gave me a non-punitive letter caution and basically said, if I don't sign it, that he's gonna have a broader investigation. We're heading out on another mission, we just got to extend it for another two weeks, right? So initially we got to extend it for one week when we're supposed to be done. And think about a morale booster, right? Shit. I mean, I I remember that day when it when I got a call on the radio, you know, we did the 17-day mission through the mountains, we fought our way through. We get to the place and he's loving it. He flies out there, he's taking pictures with me, you know, telling me, Hey, I just put you in for a silver star, you just did amazing things and all this happy horse shit. And uh, you know, flies back, and then I got a call on the radio. Hey, we just got I got some good news for you. I'm like, what's that? He's like, uh, we just got extended for a week. And I'm like, You gotta be shitting me. We're you know, we're literally done, we're tapped out. And uh, you know, so he's he's like telling me, no, this is what you know. So I was like, you know what? I threw the handset down and I and I literally walked off and I went to this bluff and I honestly cried. And I cried for my Marines, you know, because we had put them through all sorts of shit, you know, we'd all lost weight and all that, and that that we had to do this all over again, fight our way back to those damn mountains. Anyway, so My officer comes up to me. He's like, Uh, you okay, sir? I said, No, I'm not all right, Brian. I said, Let me tell you something. I said, one day you're gonna be a general officer. Don't you ever freaking do this to your Marines, you know? And uh, I got the Marines around. I said, Listen, we're Marines and we're just gonna do our damn duty. And uh, you know, I don't agree with it, but uh, we got to do it. My Afghan militia refused to go back with us. John Mammoth Khan said, No, I'm not doing it. He said, But the deal was I'm going to Kondar and that's where I'm going. And we get the T in the road, I take a right to go into, you know, and I told him, I said, I gotta go back. Those are my orders. I got, you know, I'm a Marine. And I took the right and I got a call that hey, the militia is falling us. I stopped my vehicle, walked back, and there's Jamal Mut Khan. He's like, uh, you know, you're my brother, and I couldn't leave you.

SPEAKER_01: 40:38

That was also one of the best parts of the book, by the way, is your relationship with him. I I really think like that narrative and the and the rapport, and it also really pissed me off that your leadership didn't trust him the way that you did, and what you saw day to day working with him. And I I was I was struck by that, by the dichotomy of that. These people who are in the fob, they're far away, they're not on the ground day to day doing the patrols, doing all the things that you guys are doing, yet they don't have that same trust. And it started to show me that that's a big part of the problem. Like you just said at the beginning of the call to take this full circle. The guy, the the Alexander the Great, who marries into the tribes, it was almost like your battalion landing tree. I really did feel like you guys integrated into these militias and into these forces, and these forces are not disciplined, like you said, in the way that the United States is. And you have to lead them in a way that is not the same way that you can lead your Marines, and your Marines have to also see that they're being held accountable and that they're having to do the work as well, and that's not an easy thing to do. So Colonel McKenzie does come out to be with you in combat.

SPEAKER_03: 41:49

But my understanding, if I remember from the book, was like for a day, like he came out there well, so so you know, so he said, you know, so I give me non-pural, and I said, Give me that letter, I'll sign it. You know, sign the thing and I give back to us. Well, you know, if you can do it better, why don't you come out and show me? You know, and uh but you know, it's the truth. I mean, that's the truth. So you know, so the next mission, two days later, it hops in my vehicle and we drive out, and uh we we get in this uh and the militia stop because they have to pray, and you have to honor that, right? So in the middle of this this movement, the contact type thing, uh, we stop and they're praying, and then all of a sudden, you know, I see I hear gunfire, and we had a signal. I mean, our SOPs were fantastic. And one of the greatest uh, you know, the pride that I take is uh we never had a fratricide incident, you know, and that just tells you the amount of discipline and the training that the Marines uh were were had to had to had to go through. And so uh so I hear this gunfire going off at a distance, maybe about uh a kilometer away, and I see yellow smoke because you always pop smoke where you have contact for the for the aircraft to see and everything, you know, whatnot. So I hop in my vehicle, I'm hauling ass up there, I get up there, and uh our cat team, uh, you know, a lieutenant who ended up uh is a is a mute commander now, phenomenal officer, uh, and uh also silver star recipient. And uh, you know, so he they were in an engagement. There's about three, four guys in a ditch, and when they saw the Marines coming up, they uh they started walking away. And one of them, you know, stupid goofball, uh turned around and pulled out an AK and started shooting at the Marines. Bad move, you know. So they opened up, uh, and there's there's all this crap, uh, you know, body parts and shit flying around. So by the time we get up there, that engagement was done. But uh there was a compound uh maybe about 200 meters away. Uh, and we didn't know if some of the squatters ran that compound. So I went towards the compound, and uh pretty soon one of the squads came up, and you know, everybody's amped up. We just got in a freaking firefight, everybody's pumped up, and I didn't want the Marines to do anything stupid, so I basically said, hey, stack on me. You know, so they stacked on me. We entered the compound, and you know, fortunately nothing happened, right? And uh I came out of the compound, and you know, here comes the McKenzie with you know, PAOs there, they get their pictures taken and all this stuff, and uh next thing I know, there's uh helicopters coming in, you know, and he flies out. I'm I'm thinking, you gotta be shitting me, you know, right in the middle of a freaking gunfight. We don't know what else is going around us, you know. We don't know how big the enemy is, if you know the next next village we're gonna they're gonna attack us or whatever. This guy uh flies back. And uh, you know, because and the main reason is because there's so many things that can go wrong. Fratricide incident, the AMF, the militia can do something crazy, a war crime or something. And uh everybody, you know, because they want to manage their careers and they want to keep their distance because they don't want to be involved in that. So he just left a mess to me, and you know, we barreled on through, and uh a bunch of our trucks got burnt that day. The Taliban did they burnt our trucks, bastards. I'm still pissed off about it. Uh so uh so that happened, and so so we did that operations to the north, you know, and uh and then subsequently, uh you know, 4th of July happened. Uh and I told my officer to uh make sure talk to the service support group to send us some stakes for the Marines to you know, 4th of July, Independence Day. And uh, so the day before on 3 July, I told asked my officer that said, Hey, make sure you that the stakes are locked on. He came back, said the Mew canceled it. So I get on the hook with Mackenzie. I was like, What the hell? And uh he said, Well, you didn't coordinate through the Mew. I said, I directly coordinated it. Well, you know, and so his next excuse was oh well it's a maintenance standout, we don't have any helicopters flying. And I was like, you know what, screw this. This is just bullshit. And uh next day, sure shit, two uh two uh 46s show up, and one of them brings uh you know Mackenzie with some water, and I believe it's James Webb, former Secretary of the Navy, a very renowned Marine Navy cross recipient, shows up. Uh no stakes, you know, no stakes, and that kind of it's screwed up.

SPEAKER_01: 45:52

It's just the the book is so fascinating because there's just so much detail in there that I think a lot of Americans just don't understand about what really went down in the war afghanistan. I'm just looking over some of my notes here. I mean, there's just little little side stories about like the the tracking devices. That one I thought was interesting where they put all this funding and and and and and resources into these devices that really didn't help in the in the war effort, but that was what they wanted you to focus on.

SPEAKER_03: 46:27

It was optics, it was stupidity, right? I mean, and so uh when we started out, we actually had Soviet maps, right? Because we didn't have proper maps, so we somehow or the other they got us these Soviet maps. I don't read Russian, nonetheless, but we can figure out terrain and all that stuff. And I remember at one time I'm chasing this group of uh the insurgents, uh, you know, through local intelligence. Now you got to be careful local intelligence, you can't trust him 100% because I don't know if the guy hates his father-in-law, is gonna have me, you know, use my marines to kill his father-in-law, whatever. So you gotta be very careful. So, anyway, so we meet this another uh local warlord, and he's taking us through these another mountains, and uh, you know, we drive for like a day, and little did I realize that I had, you know, there's this imaginary boundary. Uh, you know, the Mew had something like uh uh their AL AO was like uh I think 15,000 square miles was the Mew's area of operation. Think about this, and all they have is one battalion. That's me. Okay, so you got to manage 15,000 square miles, but you can also manage it through aviation. So I get that, right? My battle space was 2,000 square miles, 2,000, 2,000 square miles. Imagine, imagine that, right? Mountains and all this happy. So, anyway, so I was so I I exceeded uh the boundary because I didn't have the right map sheet and all that. So I get called back the next day and he chews me out. He's like, uh, you know, you embarrass the Mew, you you you you cross the boundary without coordination. I was like, there's nobody out there. What are you talking about? You know, he said, You don't understand MACTA. I said, I wrote the freaking book on MagTaf operations. I wrote the book, and don't tell me I don't understand MagTAF operations. You know, if you want me to chase these people down, you turn me loose. And uh what happened was uh subsequently after that, we had a big brief, and uh we really hadn't gotten any combat up to then, right? Because uh, so so we got to that mountain. So, any anyway, that that warlord, let me just backtrack a little bit. Uh, we saw some people up on a ridgeline and we reported it, and uh the Mew wanted us to bomb him. I don't know who that guy is up on this ridge line, I don't know who the hell they are. I'm not doing it, right? I mean, the ROE hasn't shot at me. I don't know. This warlord saying that's the enemy. I don't know this guy from Adam. I'm not gonna drop bombs on him. I refuse. I said, I ain't doing it, uh, you know, because I don't have positive ID. Anyway, so I get called back to the Mew's fob and he chews my butt, you know. So the story about the boundary and all that. And the next day we had the commanding general, two-star, a good guy. You know, I loved him because every time he'd come out of the helicopter with his MC, he's like, Hey Genghis, are we in contact? I'm like, Come on, sir. You think I'd I'd bring the hilo in? Anyway, he used to he used to fire me up and motivate the hell out of me. So we're briefing him, and he's quite a you know, and you can tell the army guys know how to plan. I'll tell you what, they they're they're uh you know, they're boom, boom, boom, you know, by the book. And uh, so we give him the brief terrains on terrain models and all that stuff. And he's sitting there and he's like, Uh you Marines, you know, he goes, uh, I had uh greater expectations out of you guys, but you guys really haven't done anything. You know, it's kind of a a jab at the Marines, right? Uh expected more out of you. So I said, Turn me loose and I'll show you, you know. And uh, she's like, What are you talking about? I said, We gotta work with the local militias, we gotta, you know, get involved, get get in in bed with them because they have the intel, because I'd just done it with that other guy. And uh, so basically he uh he said, uh, you know, basically said, let me think about it, I'll come back to you next. So he went back to Bagram, talked to staff, and next day, you know, my leash got a little bit longer. And uh he gave me some aviation assets. We had the AC uh 130, uh, the Grim Reaper, you know, A10s, uh Apaches. I mean, we we I mean we did we ran over like a hundred bombing missions, B-1 bombers, I mean, you name it, and we dropped uh once we latched onto them. And uh, you know, so so the the key is you got to have the local trust with the militias, they gotta trust you, and you got to be able to willing to work with them. And uh, you know, that there's this this banter would go on as you read in the book, Jinjalma Muskana. Every morning when I woke up, I love the men, you know. By evening time, I wanted to choke him.

SPEAKER_01: 50:28

You wanted to kill him because he was always trying to extract something, he was always trying to take something. Yeah, yeah. But he was also looking out for for his interests and for the things that and and and it was sad too. I won't I won't give away the story, but there's a there's a you know a sad story that goes along with what happens to him as well. And it's god, the book is so good. And and I mean, I'll tell you, I'll I'll tell you as odd, like I am not a a history scholar, although I probably should be with as many of these kinds of shows that I do, uh, but to get someone like me interested in this kind of subject matter uh is is rather remarkable, but it's the way that you're able to tell the story and the way that you always tie it back to these examples of failed leadership. And I think we all can relate to bad leadership. And it happens in the like I was telling you earlier before the call, this happens in the civilian sector, this happens in in families, this happens everywhere. And if we can try to prevent these this kind of behavior and this kind of nonsense, then I think we're gonna be better off as a society. And I think it says a lot that you took the time to put all this on paper and and and really tell that story. And after that, non-punitive, as I go back to the story, as you after that non-punitive letter of caution, ultimately uh you were relieved of command. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened there?

SPEAKER_03: 51:52

Yeah, so uh, so what happened was uh after I so you know, so we we back load, uh, I get a great fitness report. There's a copy of it in the book. I get put in for a silver star.

SPEAKER_01: 52:04

Sure, he's like praising singing your praises at this point.

SPEAKER_03: 52:07

Yep. Yep. And uh General the the two-star comes down to Condor, uh, you know, and uh kick-ass speech. Uh Marines are, you know, Marines are pumped up because we've really done something. And uh, you know, so uh we have a breakfast with the commanding general, and uh there's some Marines, he's sitting on the table, you know, in this tent with a bunch of Marines eating breakfast. I'm on the side table with the deputy CG, and he's like, Genghis, you've done incredible, you know. I mean, uh, you can write your ticket in the military. If you want to be at the time, the chairman of Joint Chiefs was General Pace. You want to be General Pace's aide, let me know. I'll make it happen. Blah, blah, blah. As he's saying this, uh, all of a sudden the attention to orders. So everybody pops up and uh they read the citation, they put on a bronze star on the new commander. And I'm like, You gotta be shitting me. Yeah, uh, you know, in my mind, I'm pissed because I haven't we haven't recognized a single Marine yet, but this guy gets a bronze star. Uh so we sit on, and so the deputy CG is like, Genghis, so so tell me what you want to do. I said, Sir, I'm gonna retire. And he's like, he spills his coffee, he's like, What? I said, I'm retiring. He's he's like, Why? I said, for shit like that. I said, I haven't given you know, a single Marine's been recognized, and we're gonna, you know, and I was just fed up. And I'd actually turn in my pistol, so this is like in August. Uh, you know, that that I'm I'm I'm I'm done. I'm I'm just too much going on, right? And I'd even written to my former battalion commander that hey, I'm I'm I'm gonna retire. And uh, so we're setting sail. We get back to uh uh Kuwait. We you know the ships meet us in Kuwait and we fly into Kuwait, and my Marines are put up in this this camp by the border, and all the camp had was uh you know clawed tents, it had a pre-engineered uh chow hall, and uh then then it had uh you know that was it. I mean, even the floors of tents inside, we had we had cots where were of sand. And so I basically told the Marines, I said, here, here's the bottom line. You know, you're you you you will PT with me in the morning before the sun comes up. I'm gonna PT you. You will eat three meals a day, and the rest of the day is yours. I don't give a shit. You play cars, write letters home, whatever the hell you want to do. And I told the staff it's here and officers, I said you walk through that damn chow hall uh with trays of ice cream and shove ice cream down these Marines' throats uh because we'd all lost weight. And I want them to, you know, we're going home. I want them to look like Marines instead of this these malnutritioned uh people coming out, and uh and then then I get orders, and then I get I get called down to Camp Rf John uh to go to a meeting, and I go down to RF John and I'm looking for the Mew. Where are these guys at? Uh somebody tells me they're by the pool. I'm like, uh, I go go by the pool, they're all hanging on in freaking uh lounge chairs on the by the pool, and I'm so freaking pissed. Uh that you know, and and and legend has it, I made a comment that I fired a grenade at frag every one of you. And I told the Mew commander, I said, What the hell is this? I mean, what why are why are not my Marines down here enjoying this, getting a little R around the pool while we're suffering in the freaking desert up there? And his response was, Oh, uh, we don't have enough room uh for everybody. Well, then send the Mew headquarters up there and let one of my rifle companies or two rifle companies, whatever number of Marines, come down here and at least enjoy it. They're the ones that earned it, you know. And this is the same mindset that these bums, uh, you know, stolen valor, uh scumbags, uh, put in them, put themselves in for the combat action ribbon. We can talk about that.

SPEAKER_01: 55:17

That is, I was gonna say, that was another thing that was on my notes, too, is that there were people that wanted to just spend one day in the fob because if you spent one day in the fob or two days, there's people one night, one night. There are people who would intentionally try to get others there so that they could get that combat action ribbon.

SPEAKER_03: 55:34

They would literally come in helicopters, hanging on the skids to come, you know, at sunset. That's crazy, land their helicopters, sleep on the ramp next morning, go back to Condor, and they're they're on the list for combat action ribbon. Well, my Marines earned a damn, you know, it's basically the Marines that fought, you know, and it's we had some attachments too. So I mean it's not just BLT 16. So we had some attachments, and also the force recon guys were the ones that actually saw, you know, uh saw actually gunfights by the order. And these guys are 28. There's they've they put in 28 different uh you know events that supported the combat action or 23 of them were the BLT were one six.

SPEAKER_01: 56:10

I I put the five incidents near FOB Ripley that qualifies as combat incidents, along with 23 actual leading people to wear it that knew they did not deserve it, and some who spent the night at the FOB just to get it. It it is just absolutely ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03: 56:24

And yeah, compromise and integrity, you know, compromise and integrity, you know. So so now, I mean, the the bottom line is, you know, and in those days it was a big deal uh to get the combat action ribbon because that's your you know right of passage in the Marine Corps, right? And uh they violated that, in my opinion. Anyway, so so we we we set sail, we go off, uh we're setting sail back to the United States, and uh I get called in one day. Hey, do you see this video? I'm like, I haven't, you know, I have no idea what you're talking about. So he plays this video of this one officer that's you know on YouTube, you can see it. And a lot of people think it's me. It's not me, it's uh it's another officer. I kept quiet about it because I'm not gonna throw one of my officers under the bus, right? And uh so they show this video, and this is after and and put it in context, right? It we've just been extended for another two weeks. So this officer, this this this this unit is going out on a patrol, and this officer is telling them to stay, hey, stay alert, stay motivated, stay fired up. And uh, you know, and he's like, Do you understand me? Do you understand me? And he pushes a marine, do you understand me? And uh, and the way this video happened was the Marine, uh, the the Mew was always looking for uh press time, right? They were they were getting all these reporters coming down. We even had uh Geraldo, Geraldo came down, a bunch of other reporters, and uh, you know, I didn't have time for reporters. I you know, I I don't have time to give interviews, I'm busy. And uh so anyway, so this lady that's SBS dateline, and uh she made some allegations on this on the whole script. And she basically said uh that uh the Marines abused, and the same time Abu Ghraib was going on, that the Marines abused a lot of prisoners. And what she said was true, but she didn't put it in context, right? And the context was when the detainees came to the Mu Fob uh and went to the detainee uh handling facility, the medical officer gave him a check. So he'd take their clothes off and check them, make sure they got no marks and all that stuff. And uh to the local Afghans, that was uh, you know, uh sexual uh uh uh misconduct, I guess. Or harassment, assault. Uh, because in their culture, they don't do that. But all they had to do was explain it away. Then she attached that video to it, but she never made any allegations about the BLT. But here's the kicker. That officer at the time worked directly for the Mew. He was he I had given 400 Marines up to guard the Mew's uh fob, which was five-mile perimeter, had a 6,000-foot runway for aircraft, and uh this whole battery was guarding them. So he worked directly for the Mew. So I believe what happened was when this got out in the media and the Marine Corps started asking questions, they said, Oh, that's that's uh on Khan's uh command climate, his leadership style. Well, what a bunch of freaking horseshit, another freaking lie, right? Because he wasn't under my direct command. I hadn't even seen the guy for months. He worked directly for the Mew commander, and come to find out when you talked to the Marines, nobody went out there and checked the Marines on the perimeter. Nobody did, right? Uh, so so it was just it was just it was a just just a screw, you know, of so anyway, so uh so they wanted to relieve this guy, and I was like, you know what? Oh no, they they wanted to do an investigation on him, so you know, fine. You want to do investigation, do investigation. No, we want the BLD doomess. So we did investigation, not a single Marine said that was assault. It's it was just like a coach saying, Hey, wake up, right? And uh, so that happened, and then all of a sudden, uh, you know, they said, Oh, you know, General Anus, uh, and you know, the MEF CG. I didn't even know that we had a MEF change of command. We're so out of touch. The previous MEF CG, uh, General Osman loved me. He ranked me, you know, one of the top lieutenant colonels in the meth. But this new guy comes in and he wants he he's like uh Uh, you know, bloodthirsty, he wants to uh relieve somebody, so they said, Hey, we got to relieve this captain. I said, I'm not relieving anybody. You want to relieve him, you relieve him. You're the um BLTC. Anyway, this poor kid gets relieved. We ruined his career, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:11

The next thing they said, they uh the out-of-context news report, basically, is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:18

Yeah, I mean, all they have to say, yeah, this incident happened for the first go away. Yeah, go away. You know, I mean it's that simple, but you know, there's it's it's this damage control they get into, right? I know it's a typical, typical you know this better than anybody. I know all too well, yeah. So uh, so then uh then they said that I get called and hey, we're gonna we want to do command climate on your uh uh investigation on you. So that's a command climate. I can tell you it sucks. I mean, we just came out of combat for a month, and we don't need to do an investigation. I'm telling you it sucks. Yeah, so they they so they get a brand new lieutenant colonel who's junior to me to the do the investigations who's who's uh aviation guy, right? A pilot or some shit. He has no clue what how an infantry battalion goes and and does things, right? So he he gets these uh so they they interview something out of out of about 120 uh staff and CEOs and officers, right? And he interviews like 70 of them, right? And uh never substantiates a single allegation. So when you open this and and uh if you you know yeah, you have a copy of it, yeah. Right. So what happened was when I got relieved, it was an administrative relief. When you get relieved administratively, you're not entitled to any there's no any evidence or anything like that, right? But these idiots they charged me for uh uh assault and conduct on becoming an officer, and I'll get into that. And as soon as they did that, this is the here's the investigation, right? So, this is what my lawyers gave me. I looked at you know the first part of it and I basically shut the thing and I was like, you know what? I don't give a shit. I'm retiring the hell with them. Now, what happened was when you go back, and the first statement is from uh a female captain, the mu adjutant. Now, think about this. This is the the the the BLT's command climate. What the hell does a mu adjudant have to do with my command climate? Absolutely nothing, right? She makes an allegation that I hit a lieutenant so hard that his head snapped off, you know, his head uh hit his shoulder. Okay. Next thing you go to the lieutenant's statement. I've got all both of them in the book. The lieutenant says he was never hit by me. Never happened. That's crazy, crazy, right? It never happened. So so why was she not charged for making a false allegation against a senior officer?

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:26

Why do you think she made that allegation?

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:28

Yeah, and why why why did they keep that false statement in in the in in the in the investigation? And the rest of the investigations was oh yeah, I heard Khan uh use foul language. Oh yeah, you know, and so when they asked me, I said, Yeah, I did. I have you ever laid hands, yeah. I grabbed my radio operator under fire. Uh, I pulled them uh towards me, and uh, you know, I've I've grabbed a flag jacket, my opsos pulled them towards me when we're talking, right? Intensity. Uh, but I never hit anybody. So uh when this goes in front of the Jag, so you know, assault. So I said, What are the specifications? Well, those are specifications. So I said, okay, if that's the case, I remember General Al Gray coming up behind me and smacking me on the back and saying, Hey Genghis, good job. That's assault too. So we got to bring him down here and charge him all.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:12

Why do you get the Jag guys? But just to stop real quick, why do you think the female what was the was there any? Usually what I find in every single one of these cases is some sort of a misunderstanding happens or somebody takes something personal or something. So what why do you think she made this allegation?

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:27

Like what I think quite quite frankly, because I probably threw her out of my COC one time because the Muse staff would come down there thinking that they they they they were in command of the BLT. They weren't their staff officers, get out, go away. Yep, you know, it's that simple. And and and the and the mu CEO is very good with McLavillian leadership style, right? Uh having the staff go do this, then I'd go tell the mu CEO this is screwed up, and he said, Yeah, you're right, you know, just show that hey, you know, he's changed the decision and he's gonna stick by me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:52

That's a very manipulative leadership tactics, not even leadership, they're they're manipulative tactics where he basically cleans himself and washes his hands of being the bad guy. So he sits there and he writes you up for the silver star. He says, Oh, he praises you publicly, because that absolves him of the culpability or the optics of being able to say that he had a vendetta against you. It's just so it's so dirty.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:18

And I don't I don't play that, I don't, I don't, I'm not that type of person. You know, I see what's in my heart. So uh, so and I'd say I think that's what happened. That's the staff was always you know trying to impose their will on on the BLT, come directly and give orders. You know, get out, go away. Sure, you know, have the museo tell me, and then then then we'll you know it's that's the way it's supposed to work. So uh, so uh so all this happens, and uh so so then then the okay, what's the next charge? Uh conduct on becoming an officer. What's the specifications? You use foul language, and I knew the Jags, I knew all the lawyers sitting there, and I said you fucking AI did, right? Because they knew this is how marine infantrymen speak. And I said, and not only did I use it, but the mu CEO used it. I've heard them on the radio, I've heard them use it personally, and I've I've heard General Anus uh swear also. So we got to bring them down here, put them under oath, and uh get their testimony. And if they lie, then we then I'll have God witnesses, we'll get them on perjury. Uh, but you know, I mean, so it's you know, and they're like, You're right, there's nothing here, get out of here, you know. So they they dropped everything. Uh, but they're said these bastards are so vindictive, they wouldn't let me retire. So they start another investigation, right? Because as long as they can keep me on active duty, I can't talk. I got fed up with this horse shit, you know. They forget that I, you know, uh, because I'll fight back. And uh, so I got I got a lawyer, my own lawyer, and uh uh Charlie Gitten, he's in the book. And Charlie Gittons uh was involved in the EA6B that hit the gandola in Italy. And uh, so I talked to Charlie Gittons, he's a southern dude, right? He's uh yeah, Colonel. He goes, uh I was waiting for a phone call from you. I'd heard a lot of rumors. Tell me what happened. I told my side of the story. He said, Uh, you willing to go in 60 minutes and fight this? I said, Absolutely. And uh, so he said, I'll call you back. He called the Commandant's SJA. He goes, Hey, I got this uh this war hero wants to tell a story in 60 minutes about the combat action ribbon and some other stuff that went on in that deployment. Uh, when do you guys want to do this? And eight hours later, I got my marching papers retired. That's gone.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:14

Sometimes I always wonder, too, like what would have happened if if they had called your bluff and they had said or thought it was a bluff and said, Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:22

And then you would have always would have showed their ass. And I'll tell you what, later on, what I what else I found out, the exact same time. This is this is uh this is how broke um uh these people are in terms of moral courage, right? Uh of uh of making sure that that justice is served. The exact same time there's a battalion in Iraq, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines, uh, where they they they did a mortar fire mission, and the battalion commander walked in the FDC, they see them plotting the fire mission, he approves it without doing all the the all the all the ensuring the fire data and and the and the and the safety. Uh and and the and the mortar on lands on one of his companies, okay? Uh three three individuals dead, a dozen wounded, right? Okay, the regimental commander says he should be relieved, uh, the uh FDC officer should be released, and another officer that was doing the plotting, who happened to be Duncan Hunter, right? Later on Congressman and Congressman Hunter's son. Uh, you know, that they should all be held uh accountable. General Mattis, right, uh disagreed with the regimental commander. The MEFCG, uh uh Lieutenant General Conway at the time, later on comrade on the Marine Corps, uh uh supported Mattis' decision. Nothing happened. They covered this shit up for three freaking years and told the Marines that it was enemy action that killed all these people. Marines knew the truth, right? Uh, but nobody's allowed to talk. And then later on, uh Mary Tillman, Pat Tilman's mom, got wind of this. She went in front of Congress, and the assistant commandant of the Marine Corps uh had to come in in front of Congress and apologize for covering this up three freaking years. Okay, at the exact same time, you have a fratricide incident, battalion commander kills his own Marines. He retires as a lieutenant general. I had zero fractures incident. Yeah, I had lost one Marine, and we could get into why that happened also. Uh, and I get relieved because it's allegedly, allegedly, I hit a lieutenant that says it never happened, allegedly because I used foul language. Yeah, which I did. Yeah, I did. Uh, you know, uh, but you try to do it. You try to lead a bunch of Afghan militia that don't that are illiterate, and uh, there's some good great pictures in the book, you know, guys with swords and stuff. Oh, yeah. And uh Marines, right? Yeah, you try to lead that. I don't think too many people could have done it. And uh, you know, I'm I'm surprised that I was able to pull it off, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:34

Uh, you know, I think it's just because they respected you and you had the respect of Muhammad too, Jan. And there were just there were there were just there were factors at play while you were there that enabled you guys to be successful, but thank God that you were, and thank God that you wrote this book. And as as somebody else said here, lots of stories like this. And I agree, and that's one of the reasons why we share these stories of service. We share these stories of service. I'm just gonna go full screen for a second, because we want other people like Assad to come forward, and we want other people to tell the true stories of what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. And unfortunately, and it just blows my mind, I don't know why. Assad's book is not on the professional reading libraries of the Commandant of the Marine Corps. Why? Why are these stories not the stories that that we're required to read for our professional military education? Because if these were the stories that we were required to read, we would learn something from them and we would move forward in a better way because we would actually learn these lessons and hopefully not repeat them. But back to you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:36

Yeah, I I agree with you. I mean, uh, you know, we got to come clean. And uh, you know, if I was a comment on the Marine Corps or uh Pete Heggsit, uh I would certainly look into this combat action ribbon because there's a bunch of people walking around, and it's not just uh, you know, in the Marine Corps or uh Tutu Mew. I mean, it's throughout throughout the military people have viewed the war system, right? And uh we got to clean that stuff up, and until we have this reckoning, uh we're gonna keep doing this stuff. And the sad part is a lot of people have complained uh have compared this book uh to about face, and you've you know about face, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:09

The fiction book that you were telling. I'm telling you, that's what's an ego here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:12

If you think this is about face, right here, right? Uh written by uh uh uh David Hackworth, right? Okay, I think we're gonna reverse screen uh with David Hackworth, right? He was the most decorated, and and uh you know uh Don Vandergriff knows knows him personally, or you you know, he's passed away. Most decorated uh uh uh military officer in the history, right? Most decorated. Fought in Korea as a 17-year-old kid, uh fought in Vietnam and wrote about face in the 1980s. This was my Bible. It was a Bible for us young lieutenants because we, you know, all the mistakes they made, and he started speaking out against the army about all the mistakes of the people fighting from helicopters and all this uh nonsense, uh, that he was drummed out of the army. So he wrote this book and it became our Bible how to lead how to lead troops, how to train them, and how to fight them in combat. That became our Bible. So a lot of people compare, you know, uh portrayal of command to uh to uh about face. And and I find that so damn sad, and I'll tell you why, you know, quite frankly. I'm honored that they compare it to that, but I find it really sad because we didn't learn the lessons from about face, did we? Okay, if we'd learned those lessons, then this shit would have never happened. A lot of people compare it to Once an Eagle, you know. Uh, and that's uh to me, uh Once an Eagle was a fiction uh book, right? It was fiction. Uh I lived it, it was non-fiction, right? So Sam Damon and Courtney Massingale and all these actors and all this stuff, uh, you know, uh people got to decide uh who's on the right on this. And uh quite frankly, the only reason I wrote the book, uh, and if I may just take a couple minutes and just explain. I wrote the book back in 2005. Okay. Uh once I retired, I just you know, I had everything fresh in my mind. I wrote the damn thing and I just put it away. And it wasn't the right time to publish it. And uh, because the reason being was my Marines were going back to Iraq, and I didn't want them to second guess their chain of command. So I just said, you know what, this is not the right time, and I put it away. Well, in the process, some people heard about my story, and I got contacted by this agent, you know, that uh you know, so I sent him part of the manuscript and uh he cut a deal with some British, I forget some British publishing company, and uh he wanted 40% of the royalties. I didn't know anything about publishing books, you know, I didn't know anything about it, and I was like, you know what, I'm not doing it for money. I put it away, told him to go away. And uh so then right around 2015, 16, 17 time period, I get contacted by another agent. Amazon wanted to buy the story from me. And uh, there's there's a uh British actor that was gonna play me, Riz Ammon, little skinny little guy. Wow. And I actually I actually spoke to him, and uh, you know, I said, You can you can't, he's too skinny. You're too skinny. You gotta be we're like we're like uh you know mules, infantrymen. And uh so then then what happened was uh you know they sent me the contract, it's about an inch inch and a half thick. I sent my lawyers, and my lawyer said, I wouldn't sign this because you're giving up all your rights to to the story, every bit of it. And tomorrow they could make you into a gay transvestite marine officer, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. So I was like, Yeah, you're right. So I put it away again, and then later on, you know, and I never had a social media presence after the 21 August, uh the 2021, uh uh, you know, when when the Kabul withdrawal happened, uh, I was so freaking it was a gut punch for me because the same personalities were involved in the Kabul withdrawal. And I was you know, I I was ashamed, I was hurt. Uh, because if I had spoken out before, maybe we could have avoided that mess. Uh, so uh, you know, I started going on social media, LinkedIn, and uh, I believe that's how you and I met. I went on LinkedIn, I started leaving comments, and then people jumped on me on LinkedIn and say, Who the hell are you? We never heard of you. You you're stolen valid, you're some sort of fraud. And uh, you know, a bunch of Marines jumped on and said, No, this guy's legit. You know, he's a Marine, blah, blah, blah. And so then they said, uh, one of the Marines said, Hey, why don't you start a YouTube channel? I don't know, I don't know nothing about this, right? I literally grabbed my phone, I was telling you this, and I made my first video why I'm starting Sentinel. And the reason I'm starting Sentinel is for the these very reasons. It's accountability of senior military officers, and it's stopping foreign misadventures, so we don't get embroiled in these foreign wars and give up the lives of our sons and daughters and come up with some practical solutions. That's the intent of Sentinel. So I started Sentinel, and then somebody on Sentinel goes, Hey sir, why don't you write a book? I said, I wrote one. Well, why don't you publish it? I said, Fine, I'll publish it. So I pull it out, dust it off, give it to the publisher, and the publisher is like, Hey, a great story, but uh, where's the backup? And uh, so I, you know, I have the investigation. I got, I got it. I have all this stuff, but I can't find it. I can't find the backup. Um, so I'm like, you know what? This book is never gonna get written. And then one day I'm literally going through a closet and I pull up this uh this helmet bag. Uh, you guys, I don't know if the viewers know what a helmet bag is. You know, I pull this out of the closet, it's heavy. I was like, wow. So I look inside it and there's that investigation, you know. So I don't know if the good lord was looking down on me, uh, but as soon as I found that investigation, my story was legit because everything is documented in that. And uh I took excerpts out of that investigation, the relevant documents, and I put it in there. Uh, and uh, so you know, and then so then the same publishers uh didn't want uh the first chapter of the book starts out with my ancestors, right? And they say, Well, it's not relevant to the story. So I said it's absolutely 100% relevant because those that's my touchstone, you know. Uh so the the they said, why don't we put in it back as an appendix? I said, no, it's the the story's gonna start out uh with with my uh ancestors, and uh and and then they then they wanted to clean up my language, you know. Hey, listen, by nature I'm an intense dude. Uh and and I said, you know, to for a wider audience, because they want to make money on this project. I said, listen, I'm not interested in it, I'm not cleaning up a damn thing, and I'll make it real simple for you. I was on a zoom call. I said, uh, I'm out, and I hit end, and uh that was it. Uh we're done. And then I decided to, you know, just self-publish. And uh, you know, let me tell you something. My intent was never uh to make money out of it compared to about face. Uh to uh once an ego. My intent was just to convey to the readers what I saw through my eyes and what I felt in my heart, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:22

At the end of the day, I'm hard as nails, but I got a heart also, you know, and I saw things that uh people shouldn't have to see. And uh I and I wanted to share that with all the all the all the readers, you know, and uh and I and I've got a lot of passion. I still believe in this because I don't want anybody else to go through this nonsense. It's really that simple, you know. Uh and and what's happened has happened. It's what you know, it happened 20 years ago, it's water on the bridge. And uh, but we as a military uh need to get better. We got to hold our senior leaders accountable, and uh the senior leaders have to have the backbone and the moral courage to stand up and say, you know what, this is wrong or this is right, you know, whichever way. But just don't go with the flow and and and have our sons and daughters go out there and get killed for no freaking reason. Uh so the military industrial complex and all these other people benefit from it. We should not be fighting wars for profit. Uh we should be fighting wars to defend America. And defend America starts at our borders. That's that's where that's where you defend America at. And the rest of the happy horse shit, uh, you know, uh, we we need to make sure the money that we're spending, uh, that we have the best infrastructure in the world like we used to, uh, that we have the best education in the world like we used to, that we don't have 20,000 homeless veterans uh in on in the in you know in the United States, and uh we don't have 50 million Americans that are food insecure. That's the way America needs to do.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:43

I agree, and that's why the stuff I see now with Pete Hageseth and with the administration with the border and the emphasis on border security. And one of the things that I will say that I'm very impressed with too is that since they've taken over, we haven't put boots on the ground. We haven't been, we we are involved in foreign conflicts, but we are not involved in foreign conflicts where troops are are our troops are dying. And I have to say that that is commendable. And I would like to think that we are on a positive note, are learning some of the lessons that you shared. But to your larger point about your story, which I believe is a bigger story of this war in Iraq and Afghanistan, what I hope one day is that your book not only makes it to the shelves of the Commandant's reading list, I hope they make a movie about it one day. Or I hope that they get you on Sean Ryan. I I really don't understand why these this story hasn't blown up and it's going to continue. I think it's also just because you just released it in November. But I I I I see it in about a year or so. This is just going to keep getting bigger and bigger. And one of the ways that I think that you're also continuing to tell this story and and really share your thoughts. And as we said, we would transition to, and I'll share my screen to show the audience. And for my listening audience, what I'm doing is I'm pulling up his YouTube channel. So tell me a little bit about this channel that you have on YouTube now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:09

Yeah, so so like I said, you know, the first thing about the Commandance reading list, let me just address that real quick. Okay, you know, quite quite frankly, nobody reads the damn reading list, you know. And what I'm talking, it's a bunch of officers do, you know, some staff and COS may the troops don't read it, right? Uh, the because it's so so the reading list is not relevant to the troops. And and if you're truly, you know, so we we and and and one of the questions I used to ask one of a lot of my company commanders is uh what kind of music do your troops uh listen to? You know, just in that age gap of 10 years, it's a different music, right? Oh, totally. In terms of reading, it's a different thing, right? So not only do you have to uh so when when I was a battalion commander, I would assign a book uh that the Marines would read and then for my NCOs, because I wanted my squad leaders to understand how I thought, right? And then we'd meet every week, uh, you know, and and we'd talk about the book and we sort of kind of go through the book, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:56

That's a great like a like a re like a like a book club. Yep, got it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:00

Exactly, exactly. So uh so getting back to uh the YouTube channel, I started this YouTube channel, quite frankly, is to get my thoughts out. I I think I've I've got like a hundred, couple of hundred videos on it, and I really talk about uh the hard controversial topics. This is not a vet bro type uh channel. No, I talk about things, I talk about things that are that are important, that are strategic in nature, that are operational in nature, and uh, you know, and and it and and it just for me, it kind of blew up. I you know, I I have no idea, right? And uh I and I try to put out one or two videos a week. I love doing it. I hate uh when I'm doing it though, because I do all the editing myself. A lot of people tell me, hey, send it to India, send it to the Philippines. It's my work. Picasso did his own painting, that's the way I look at it. It's my flaws, it's my thoughts, and uh that's the way I do it, you know. I love it. I really appreciate the viewers uh that come on, and we've got a hell of an engagement. I'll tell you what, and uh and a lot of people don't realize I know for a fact that uh the secretary's office, uh, you know, they they watch this and they read some of the comments, and uh because uh I know some people in there, and uh so so the the people that that leave comments, leave the comments on there uh because somebody's gonna read it and it's gonna maybe trigger something in the in their brain. And there's other channels they watch also, it's not just this one, uh, as they should, because this is really the the beauty of this channel is all the comments, it's like a mirror in the face of our senior officers and the Marine Corps, quite frankly. Uh that you know, there's a great one if you go back, the the senior leadership uh where you just scrolled over there. That that's a great uh toxic culture of entitlement. I can talk about that all day long. Some of the shit that I've seen in the military.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:37

Oh yeah, you know, this is Vietnam where where the uh where the general stakes were being delivered and troops are being killed, right? Uh things haven't changed. I saw that uh one on our deployment also. You know, when I when I first got on the ship, you know, as as a as a as a as a BLT commander, you get your own stateroom. And and this Marine brings me uh a basket of fruit. I'm like, what the hell is this? He's like, oh sir, uh all commanders get a I said, get this crap out of them, go go eat it yourself, get it out of here. Don't ever bring me any any fruit. If I need fruit, I'll go find it, you know. Uh, but that that's entitlement, right? Uh like eating in a commodore's mess. I mean, you go down to troop mess, that's where the action is. So I used to go down there and piss off every uh chief and staff and chill because you got a colonel going down, lieutenant colonel going down there and eating with the troops. That's my duty. They're my children, they're my kids. I gotta go eat with them. I go eat with my officers. Uh, that's the way I did it. Uh, you know, they did the bosun's call. You remember that? Twee, yeah. You know, I mean, now all of a sudden they're standing at attention, everybody, just to announce you on. I told stop that shit. I don't need that. Nobody, and they're saying, Well, yeah, then the the ships actually call me. That's naval tradition. I said, Walking the plank was naval tradition, also. So put a plank on there, walk it. And once you do that, then you can then you can tweet me on board. Otherwise, just leave it alone. It's just a distraction, right? Uh, everybody knows the people that need to know who I am, they know it. And there's a great little story I'll tell you. When we're when we're on uh on the Wasp, I'm gonna stand there one day, and this kid in the purple shirt, I have no idea what a purple shirt was, I have no clue. He comes up to me, he goes, Hey dude, how you doing? I said, I'm I'm doing fine, you know. And I'm thinking in my mind, this kid is nuts, he has no idea who's talking to, but he's so genuine, he's so such a nice kid, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:14

And for the audience, the purple shirt is the is the fuel, the fuel officers on the flight deck, or not officers, but the fuel people.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:22

He's a young, young squid. He has no clue that he's talking to a BLT commander. And so every time I'd go on the flight deck, he'd come see me. Hey, dude, how you doing? How you doing today? You know, he's really nice kid. So one day I see him and uh he must have had a watch. I see him and he's got this stack of ribbons. So I'm like, uh, hey man, I said, are those your ribbons? He goes, No, shh. He goes, I was in a rush. I grabbed somebody else's shirt. I was like, you know what? You're gonna be in deep shit if you ever do that, you know. And and what he doesn't realize, I'm also CO troops, right? And uh, and the Marines are just watching this, they just wanted me to give the head nod so they can throw this knucklehead over the side, right? Anyways, fast forward. Uh, we're going to Afghanistan four months later, we get back on the ship. Uh, this kid came up to me, and you know what he said to me is he said, Hey, I'm so glad you're back. I prayed for you every day. You know, I mean that and this is you know, I mean, think about that. I mean, you know, these are the kids, and they're just looking for a big brother, they're looking for leadership. It's just like the rest of the world is looking for leadership from us. Correct. There's a big vacuum out there, and we need to step up. That's what we got to do, all of us. It doesn't matter what damn rank you are, just lead, be somebody.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:26

Just lead, just lead, find a way to give back, be of service, call out the things that you see that are wrong, and work to be a part of the solution to fix it. Well, before we get off, Asad, is there anything else that you want to add or say to the audience as as we're winding down the call?

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:41

Uh, just you know, I mean, the whole thing, hey, this isn't about us. I'm telling you, our country uh needs needs all of us. And we need, you know, at what every show that I end, I say stay rugged, stay united. I mean it. Uh, we we are America was built by rugged people. And and when I looked at that picture, and if you had a picture, you know, throw it up to these general officers that uh Hexert was talking about uh in Quantico, you know, on 30 September, uh, when Hexa's talking, I'm looking at this picture of these general officers, they're all just sitting there like this, and I'm thinking, holy shit, uh, I wouldn't follow these guys in battle. You know, uh, you gotta be high testosterone person, you know, for for young Marines and soldiers to to follow you into battle. And uh, and so we all gotta we we all gotta make sure that we're we're rugged and uh that we're ready for the challenges facing us. This nation was built by rugged people. If you go back and read our history, and now we sort of just turn into marshmallows, you know, and and uh nobody wants to follow a marshmallow. So everybody needs to step up, get their ass in shape, and and and and man up to their responsibility. So that's the first part. The second part is stay united, stop being divisive, stop throwing out crap, you know, from one party to the other party to this party and that party, and always being negative and leaving all this hateful shit out there. It doesn't work. Be positive if you got nothing to you know, be encouraging, uh, find ways to be united. That's what we're all about. It's the United States of America, e plurus unum from many one. It's that simple. Live it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:04

I love it. Well, you've motivated me for my first day back at the gym after my day off. So I will I will definitely live by what you have to say myself, and I hope that my audience will as well. I thank you so much uh for taking the time to come on the Stories of Service podcast. I will meet you backstage to say goodbye as I close out to the audience. But this has been an absolutely incredible conversation, and I thank you, and I'm honored to have you on Asad.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:29

Yeah, Centrify, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:31

All right, guys, that's a wrap for today. I have another podcast on Thursday, and I'm gonna be tackling military family. I've got Jennifer Barnhill with the stories that you're never told, and she has really done a deep dive into the cost and the sacrifices that military families and the spouses make uh during times of war. And I really, really encourage you to check it out. I'll be putting a promo out later today or early tomorrow. And as I always close out these calls, thank you so much for joining us. Please take care of yourselves, please take care of each other and enjoy the rest of your day. Bye bye now.