S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
This channel confronts power, exposes institutional failure, and gives a platform to people willing to tell the truth when silence is easier and safer. We cover the stories the military, media, and influencers would rather bury, because reform does not happen without friction.
S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
The Military Failed my Son | Heather Baker - S.O.S. #249
A young paratrooper with a near-perfect PT score, big plans and a bigger heart grew dangerously ill at Fort Bragg. He was sent back to the barracks, where missed formations, unanswered calls and a holiday weekend combined into six silent days. By the time anyone knocked, it was too late. His mother, Heather Baker, walks us through the painful timeline—ER turnaways, worsening vitals, redacted pages, and a claims process twisted by contractor loopholes—and the moment the Army Secretary acknowledged what leadership would not: no one checked on her son.
We dig into the hard parts many avoid: how the Ferris doctrine shields the Department of Defense from lawsuits, why contractor status can derail malpractice claims, and what it takes to pry medical records and accountability from a system built to protect itself. Heather shares the congressional steps that forced contractor disclosure into the NDAA, the medical review that proved malpractice, and the uneven landscape other families still face. Then we shift to solutions. The SMIDI check turns “welfare check” into what it should be—face-to-face verification when a soldier stops responding—backed by training, documentation and escalation so “left behind” never becomes a cause of death.
This is also a story of resilience. Heather rebuilt herself as a competitive shooter and professional dog trainer, finding discipline, trust and purpose in the same traits Caleb embodied. Her message is clear: a text isn’t a check-in, a creed is empty without action, and leadership begins with a knock on the door. If you care about military medical care, unit accountability, and real-world reforms that save lives, you’ll find both answers and urgency here.
If this conversation moved you, follow the show, share this episode with a friend in uniform, and leave a review so more people hear the truth—and demand better.
Stories of Service presents guests’ stories and opinions in their own words, reflecting their personal experiences and perspectives. While shared respectfully and authentically, the podcast does not independently verify all statements. Views expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the host, producers, government agencies, or podcast affiliates.
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Today I have another amazing guest on the Stories of Service podcast. And it's now going to be the second time that I've had a Gold Star mom on the podcast. And these are very hard shows to do, but they're very important because the military doesn't always take care of our soldiers the way that we would like. And when they don't do that, we need to talk about it. I always say we need to talk about hard issues. This is one of those hard issues. So, Heather Baker, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_02:Hey, how are you? I'm doing good. Uh it's an honor to be here to speak with all of you guys. And it's never something that we uh want to have to talk about, you know, death is not something that we want to vibe on, you know, when we're talking about the military. It's it's, you know, um, uh, but I feel like there's, you know, a lot of you know, you know, blind patriotism, I guess. Um and I've kind of had an experience with with myself, you know, just having that um uh blind patriotism and Caleb the same way. My son Caleb, um, you know, um just uh as I'm thinking back, it's been six years this January. Um, and you know, he wanted to go in like at 17, you know, so and and we were I was very supportive. Uh mom uh uh wanted to have his back, you know, to do, you know, we just want him to have his dream, you know. All of our service members, you know, many of them are you know fresh out of high school, and um it's all about you know um finding your way, you know, and uh Caleb from the very beginning knew what his way was, you know. And so it's something that we all had, you know, watched him discover in himself, and um, and here we are, you know, we're um walking in uh to the fray with him, you know. Um it's what we do as parents is we we take you know, love our kids, we back our kids, we support our kids. And so um, you know, here I am um continuing on just to speak on his behalf, speak for the dead. And more importantly, um I think it's important to take care of the people around you, you know, and as I'm a tea, I've I've been a teacher. Uh this is the first year I haven't taught in 22 years, but I uh, you know, this is my new way of discovering myself again after all of this craziness, you know. Um, but um I'm doing pretty good, you know, um through all of it. Uh it's been six years. I can't believe it. It's like I went to sleep and woke up and six years past, you know. Yeah and um I'm I'm about to head. Um I've been um doing a lot of dog training um with the um the ranch uh in Dilly, Texas. And um I've got an event coming up in February, which is Caleb Caleb was uh buried February 1st in Lubbock. And um and so I'm gonna be heading back there to uh receive uh an honor and remember flag um from an organization called Honor and Remember. And so um I'm excited to, you know, kind of honor, you know, the hard work that we've we've done to um create a net of safety for our service members, you know, and not just the army. It's it's so important to me to make sure that all of our service members, because I've along the way, you know, I've met many other Gold Star moms and and many of them have had non-combat deaths just like mine. Um similarly um been um you know uh exposed to toxic abusive abusive leadership um in the military. Um, you know, Caleb was completely left behind, um, which is goes against the very tenets of the army, you know, um that their standard policies and and um and so you know I I just ask myself like what is at the core of it, you know, and I think about technology and where we are here, you know, um having to connect through technology, and we think that that that's a way to check on people, you know, and we've forgotten our human connection.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely, I agree. No, no, no, I I agree with you, and I think that what you're doing now today to bring some meaning to this and to share your story in the hopes that this doesn't happen to another soldier again is something that needs to be commended. But before we get started, as I always do, welcome to the Stories of Service Podcast, ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service, and to get this podcast started, as we always do, an introduction from my father, uh Charlie Pickard.
SPEAKER_00:From the moment we're born in lock eyes with our parents, we are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service, hosted by Teresa Carpenter. Here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.
SPEAKER_03:And as I said, um, as I think my bodies can tell in your introduction, is that you probably never intended to become an advocate. Uh, you were very patriotic as a mother, an artist, a professional musician, an educator, as you said, who spent more than two decades teaching art and special education, and then the military failed your son, PB2 Caleb Smith, and the trajectory of her life, your life fractured into something far more confrontational and far more necessary. But in the aftermath of this tragedy, that I've rolled a case of negligent homicide and medical malpractice. You refuse to accept silence as an outcome. You rebuilt yourself in unexpected ways, becoming a competitive shooter and a professional dog trainer, which are disciplines that demand precision, accountability, and trust. And those same traits are now defining the advocacy you do today. And as you've said, you define yourself as a justice vigilante, not because of seeking vengeance, but because systems that escape scrutiny will always repeat their worst mistake. And today we're going to talk about that and the SMIDIC initiative. But before we get started, uh, where were you guys born and raised? And where did he join the army out of?
SPEAKER_02:Well, Caleb was born and raised in Lebbock, Texas, along with myself over, you know, generations of Lebbockites. The home of Buddy Holly and Texas Tech Red Raiders. Um but Caleb, Caleb went to a high school that was a smaller community just off of uh right off of Lebbeck called Wolfers. Uh it's just like a hop, skip, and a jump across the tracks. And um it's a smaller community, um, probably about like eight, I don't know, maybe like five or six middle schools, and then like uh they've had they had one big high school, you know. And so he um he had a chance to like visit all the different middle schools. Um and uh so one by the time he got to high school, everybody knew him, you know, and so he was just uh very fun-loving, humorous, uh beautiful, like kid man. He loved everybody and everybody just had a had a real keen um affection towards him because he just was one of those guys that loved everybody, um, that um accepted every different social um, you know, um different different uh people. Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_03:And when he uh what made him decide to join the army?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think he comes from a tradition of military in our family. My dad was in the military, he was uh a Marine and he was uh also in the Air Force, and um and my granddad, he was in the military. Um and I think that you know he grew up very patriotic. Um, we wouldn't miss any um events that you know, like um 4th of July, you know, the parade and everything, you know, just we we were always putting up a flag for every opportunity we could put up a flag for, and just really had a lot of love for our country. And he grew up admiring the heroes around him, you know. Um many of them were you know in the military, and so um he just um he he had a real heart for people, and so it's kind of his way, I think, to get involved. Um I think we kind of build kids up, you know, um in education. Uh it's kind of a thing to uh say the pledge of allegiance and um you know put your hand over your heart and you know pledge your faith and love to the country that you you know you're born in. And so um he just wanted to uh he's he'd always wanted to be in the military. He wanted to be a soldier man.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. And so what did he join the the army to do? What was his job?
SPEAKER_02:He was a 91 Lima track line mechanic. Okay. So he he worked on um uh he the work the the the last vehicle he worked on was was called a deuce, uh M105 Earth Mover. So all right. He um uh he he he always actually wanted to be um a marine biologist, but sometimes life takes you on another path, you know. Yeah, well I think it's I think it's a way you know for for you to explore the world, you know, if you're if you join the military, you can you have an opportun have lots of opportunity, you know, to um see the world and adventure, you know, it's an adventure, you know, and he was into like more of the special forces kind of route, you know, he's super um athletic and uh an amazing runner, like um he pretty much never lost a race, and most of the time came in right on top, you know. And um so we were real proud of him, you know. He was like I said, he was super athletics. He was he was uh 13 points away from a perfect PT score in the Army. Wow. And you know, he he didn't last but for seven and a half months. Um but to me, I'm like, wow, that that that shows a lot of of uh determination. Um, because you know, he's in there, he went to uh basic training, then AIT, and then the airborne school off to Fort U Benning. And uh it was such a special, it was so special for me to see him shine. Sure. And to him to see him envision his life and career. And uh, you know, he was in it for the long haul and he had plans, you know, everybody has plans to be in the ranger, be a ranger, you know, or the Green Beret or whatever. But and and there's only there's only the few that get to really, you know, uh serve in those posts. But um I feel that if he had have um uh been all been if he had lived, um he he he certainly would have followed that that route. Um I mean he was already airborne um after seven months. Um I I think that's takes a lot of courage to go and try to do something like that because man, you're with so many different uh MOSs and uh you know ranks from you know that I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03:I said those are like the hardest jobs. I mean, you always have to have a lot of respect for the people that choose the most uh difficult um assignments. So tell me a little bit about like where he was around the time that this incident happened. Was he on base or tell me a little bit about the story behind it?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, ma'am. He he was um he was on base. Um he had you know his his CID investigation has a lot of um uh there's a lot of uh really it it it's it's um what am I trying to say? Uh his his CID investigation um uh really spoke volumes of what was really happening. So there's like you know, so much, first of all, redacted information, but um, you know, the information we were getting, you know, you'd read one, you would read in one section and then another section, it would be completely like opposite, you know, and so it was like really hard to kind of piece it all together and put it together from beginning to end. But um he um he had hit his head on a track line vehicle um working in the motor pool, and I think it was kind of more of like a red herring, so it wasn't really what um the the trouble was at all. Him hitting his head had actually nothing to do with his death. What happened was um somehow he contracted acute bacterial meningitis, um and um um it was misdiagnosed in the ER um at Fort at Fort Bragg, uh which was his first and final duty station, and he contracted this um uh you know some how, which we're still trying to figure out, like how I think I know how. Um you know, if you if you just do your investigation, you if you type in certain things like uh uh uh gram rod bacteria, it tells you like um kind of what that is exactly. Um and and you're given, I'll tell you this, you're given like um um uh vaccines for these types of things sometimes.
SPEAKER_03:So anyway, um were you notified that he had hit his head? Like when did you get notified that he was hurt?
SPEAKER_02:Um it wasn't until after he had died, um, actually. So um he he can he hit his head, um, let's say it was like on the uh I think it was the 13th of January. And then um a couple a little bit later, um, he started feeling like uh his he started experiencing a major headache um where to where he couldn't see. Um and um he missed uh formation. They went and got him out of the out of his room. Um he had called, like I think the night before he'd called one of his friends, um, a young lady, letting her know that he had hit his head or that he had he wasn't feeling well. And we actually have the the audio to that. And when I heard the audio to that, it broke my heart because he's crying and suffering and pain, and he's saying it hurts so bad.
SPEAKER_03:And um was he and so he lived in the barracks at the time.
SPEAKER_02:He did. Okay, and so the barracks, so his room was um basically a um had a had had a communal living quarters, like uh um like the kitchen.
SPEAKER_03:I know what you're talking about. Shared kitchen, and then there's rooms on all each side.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, and and then and then a shared bathroom, you know. And so um he uh he um was, you know, the last time he entered his room was I think the 15th of January. Um and he you know, they they have um uh a key card entry that tie you know timestamps like their last moments and or his you know each time you go in and out of the room. And so um so we have a timestamp. Um I have uh on on his uh Facebook page, I have uh a calendar that has all the events and everything. I I can send that to you so that your you and your viewers can check it out. But um it has um like you know the entire um um I guess the the events leading up and and at post uh uh death as well. Um but it he um so he um the 15th of January he enters his room and the last time anybody hears from him, you know, is in through like a text message. Um he'd gone to the ER twice. That there's it said he'd been turned away um from the Wanock Army Medical Center. Um so I say three times. So he was turned away and then he was he went he went two other consecutive times. But um his command um they had loose orders to check on him um even after he had gone to the ER for that third time. And um of course they say that he didn't he was never turned away from the Wamac Army Medical Center, but and throughout the CID investigation, um several people are telling me this, and I even called um to confirm it with some other folks on his team. Um, and they all told me that he um had been turned away from the Wamac Army Medical Center. He found a way to make it on his own to the medical center, and then he he had he had, I think there was somebody that took him, or I here's the deal is that nobody really is saying anything about that. That was a big question I had is like yeah, who took him, you know, because he here's the deal, he's a kid that didn't have a car, right? And he's on a big military base. I mean, Fort Bragg takes up over what three counties, something like that. It's giant, you know. I mean, it's the home of the special forces for crying out loud.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. So obviously there was another person who was involved in him being. Yeah, and that portion of it.
SPEAKER_02:And and so we have documentation of of of some other folks driving him to and fro the um Wamak Army message. Medical center when he finally got in. Um, and you know, I wouldn't say really checking on him, just following orders to take him there and to bring him back. I mean, he couldn't take, he could not keep down water, he couldn't, he didn't have an appetite. Um uh later on we did discover him that his vital signs got worse instead of better. I mean, I had to uncover this through um getting his his real medical records. So there's the medical records they give you, and then there's the medical records. Um, you know, with all the notes and everything. And so I had to get um Congress involved to help me get that information. But when we finally got it, you know, it it was just told a story, you know, of um of negligence, um, medical malpractice. Uh, you know, he is the nurse that had um that had helped him the very last time, that very last time in the hospital. Um, she had wrote written some notes saying that he had uh had his vital signs had gotten worse, and that the doctor um sent him home anyway, and she kind of she'd written in her own words, you know, that she thought that it was you know strange or whatever, you know, that that he didn't uh keep him.
SPEAKER_03:Approximately how many days was it? Did I know you don't have to give me exact timelines, but it's about six and a half days. Okay, so this was playing on from when he initially hit his head to going in and out, trying to be seen at the hospital. This was about a six-day process.
SPEAKER_02:No, it was the from the time he entered his room, the very last time, until the time they found him was six and a half days.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, okay. So how many days was it from when he hit his head to okay, that's just the initial I think it was had been like a week or so. So about a week, he's he's in, he's not going into work, and he's tried two or three times or a number of times to go to Walmak.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's from the time he hit his head until the time he started feeling the um nausea, the major headaches, he had to wear like night vision goggles just to step outside of his room. His he basically was blind, he couldn't see anything. And so from the time they he hit his head, which I said before, it was a red herring, it didn't have anything to actually do with how he got meningitis. Um we're still like wondering how that actually happened, you know, because there was no prophylactic needed on base after he, you know, nobody else came down with a cube bacterial meningitis. And if so, if they did, they would have needed a prophylactic to keep from getting it. And so in the investigation, um, the lady that was doing his autopsy had written a great deal about about that in the investigation. And so, I mean, I'm picking the investigation apart and going, this isn't matched, this is you know, this isn't this doesn't make sense, you know, and so just but it's hard to put things together when so much is redacted and there's no names, there's only um um you know, titles of um rank wow, you know, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Did you uh ever have an opportunity? Like, what was it when you first saw the initial like what were they sending you initially versus what you had to get with Congress? Like initially they just sent over a a their version of an investigation, and that's when you're like, all this is redacted. Why is all this stuff redacted? I mean, is that kind of what your first initial response was?
SPEAKER_02:So, well, I mean, they give you all the reasons why they have to redact things, they give you a whole like a couple pages of why the reason they have to redact things are it's kind of funny because it's it it's the reason they have to redact things is so they can protect their own asses. But anyway, um, but that's basically what they're telling you in their preface, you know. Um, but uh yeah, so um it was a couple years before I could really get down to where anybody would listen to me. Um worked with Jody Arrington initially right off the bat because he's from our area. Um he's our congressman over our area, and he did an amazing job um probing and asking questions. And he's he's been along for the ride since the very beginning, and he's my hero. Um, because we've already gotten um um another bill passed um that has has to do with the reason they denied our medical malpractice claim. Um, but anyway, it's there's so many rabbit trails, so many like trails to this.
SPEAKER_03:So I think we'll I just want to go back to what kind of happened because we're at the um part where he is in and out of the hospital, he's being turned away, and there's some sort of a loose checking up on him, but it sounds like he was in really, really bad shape and he should have been in the emergency, he should have been admitted. Absolutely, it should have been admitted.
SPEAKER_02:Excellent. They should have taken his blood. If they could have looked at his blood, they they may have may would have caught you know this acute bacterial meningitis um that he had a vaccine for, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Um but I mean, you know how how you know the flu and everything else goes, you have to have that vaccine for that particular version of particular strain, and and even if you do have a vaccine for something, as we saw with COVID, doesn't necessarily mean you're not going to get that viral infection. So so this goes on, and then six the they they estimate that that for six days, that's the part that I just don't understand is how how did they for six full days not know what what was going on with that?
SPEAKER_02:Well, so and the reason I'm coming up with six and a half days is is that um he his body was too decomposed to be viewed at his funeral. His roommate is spraying for breathes to cover up the smell of his dead body, and you count from the day that he entered the room for the last time all the way to the 21st of January, and you see that it's six and a half days. Um and it just doesn't mat make sense, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Well, what doesn't make sense is that I mean, okay, there's a weekend, okay. No one's checking up on him on a weekend.
SPEAKER_02:So there's a four-day okay Martin Luther King holiday. Okay, and so I mean, put two and two together, most people, uh most of these guys are gonna be out partying, which is exactly what they were doing. And if you haven't already heard about the fort, you know, the Fort Bragg um uh drug epidemic, it makes a lot of sense when you when you look at what's happening with the drug epidemic on base at Fort Bragg that they can't seem to control. They have soldiers like Enrique Roman Martinez getting his head chopped off, literally, and his family had to go down and find it because they they weren't gonna go look for him. Wow, you know, and so like and here's Caleb, you know, they're just it's basic accountability, it's basic accountability, and they left him in there till the 21st of January, and they didn't go even to find him until the afternoon of the 21st of January, about 2:30 in the afternoon. He'd missed morning formation, he missed morning PT, he'd missed um uh a doctor's appointment, and he'd missed work in the motor pool.
SPEAKER_03:And they did not go and this is on a Tuesday, right? So because Monday was Martin Linking Day, so this was on a Tuesday, and they waited till two o'clock. So not even that morning did they check on him. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, I have to say this though. I think about that, and I think about myself having been a teacher, and I think about accountability, and I think about how many families would be seriously like wanting to have my head and my job and everything else had I made a an infraction of this nature, you know, or even just like kid, you know, I was a I was an art teacher for a long time, you know, like I have this cutting board, you know, like you know, like you think about the accountability there, and then it doesn't make sense, you know, to the accountability that's plays out in the military, you know, the civilian world and the military world, we should be the barometer for what's normal, right? The civilian world, and and what they're doing is just continually um hiding behind what gets me is there was a record that he was sick.
SPEAKER_03:Like this wasn't before going into Martin Luther King weekend, he was in bad shape. And as somebody I think even commented on here who's also heard the audio, she says the audio is heartbreaking, uh, where he was talking to somebody at the time saying how sick he was. And my question would be is where were his supervisors? What were there any was there any record that his bosses at the motor pool had called his cell phone or stopped by the barracks or and that's why I've said the whole time, you know, leadership, why leadership needs to be held accountable?
SPEAKER_02:I mean you're the leader. And you know, even in here's the deal, as a um a sergeant, they're in control maybe of like about eight people, eight to ten people in a unit or whatever. Look, as a teacher, I was in control of like 500 students. And I like I just it doesn't make sense. Eight to ten people, well, they all had an excuse for some reason. The most culpable have already have supposedly been disciplined. Um, but that wasn't until I had uh the army secretary reopen, reopened Caleb's case and discovered all of the craziness, you know, all of the discrepancies that I I lined out all the discrepancies that I could see uh in a very long letter um that I um had Jody Errington with Ted Cruz created a letter um to this army secretary asking for um her to please. And this is back when Christine Warmworth was our Army secretary and Donna Martin.
SPEAKER_03:And I believe this is with you, this is you. Let me see if I have the picture right here. I believe this is you with Ted Cruz right here.
SPEAKER_02:There's Mr. Ted Cruz, yes. Yeah, that's uh I mean telling you what, man, this whole thing has just been so epic. Uh as far as just like me going, you know, as a teacher, um, I have my lunch break, you know, leave for lunch break, go home, start calling senators, caught start calling um uh congress people, you know, um representatives, um, uh to get a meeting with them in person in DC. Because I know like it's it makes more of an impression if you can see somebody face to face. Um and I realized through this process that you know my, you know, the the gift of education was really the key, honestly, because um, of course, this stuff just makes you want to unravel and just hate the world. But um, I could put a smile on my face if I understood that it was about it came down to education, you know, and it and it sucks that I have to be the one to educate, being the mother, but it's okay. That's all right, you know, like I see it, it's right here in my view in my peripheral, it's all around me, 360.
SPEAKER_03:And so you know, how did you get awareness on this at first, though? Because I bet as soon as this happened, you just got this redacted report, and nobody was gonna do anything more. So tell me what some of your initial first steps are because I think this could help a lot of other advocates.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, you know, honestly, um I there's a lot of steps there.
SPEAKER_03:Or maybe just the first couple. First couple didn't.
SPEAKER_02:Well, exactly. Um I would say that my saving grace was the other army or other military families. Um, I would say Terry Co Terry Patrick Haserta of the of the Brandon Act. Um they found me first by a post that I had made, um, kind of just lining out like some of my questions about the discrepancies. But first of all, I didn't get Caleb's uh even his uh autopsy report until like nine months later. So I was like left in the dark for almost you know, close to a year almost. Um and so uh, but the the power of putting my story out there and asking my community questions and having the support of my congressman. Um I mean, we didn't even know what we were supporting yet. We were just trying to find some answers. Um, you know, that really helped me a lot. If I if I would give anybody any kind of advice, is you've you've got to you've got to talk to your congress, um, congressman, congresswoman, whoever's in charge there. You have to, you have to talk to uh you have to talk to these people because that's how that's how it works.
SPEAKER_03:Were they responsive the first time you reached out on this issue?
SPEAKER_02:You know, Jodie Arrington called me at 10 o'clock at night the second night Caleb had passed away. Caleb, um, yeah, I mean, it was just an absolute miracle. He said, Well, first of all, the trouble was is that they were gonna make me wait um three weeks to get his body home. And I didn't make sense to me. Why would they be waiting three weeks to get his body home? Well, they didn't tell me until a whole week later. They they waited an entire week to tell my casualty insistence officer that Caleb's body was too decomposed to be viewable. So that was their way of biding time, whatever, you know, to figure out what they were gonna say to me, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:But uh I mean this whole thing just sounds like a cover-up, Heather, and it's frustrating because what if they had just been honest about everything from the get-go? I know. Even when you know, and it's almost like you're making more mistake after more mistake when you when you lie or when you cover up or you obsecate the truth, you just create more lies.
SPEAKER_02:Are you well the crazy thing is is that I'm uh you know a teacher and I get paid to see through lies every day as a teacher. So it's like my casualty, my casualty assistance officer kept telling them, uh, this is Baker, she's smart, like you guys, like she's seeing through all the old crap right now and just letting you know she sees it. And uh anyway, I mean I had a great I had a great casualty assistance officer. Um he he just he's I I try not to bother or pester him because you know he he finally retired, but you know, I mean I don't want him to I don't want to drag him into any of this. I want him to be able to retire and be at peace, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So well I'm sure he a lot of people part of the try he was part of one of the people, hopefully, that was trying to figure out answers and he was man.
SPEAKER_02:He he was he was letting me know like hey, this there's there's some things that are not kosher that are not you know matching up, you know, to his excellence, you know, you know, and that I want to say this, you know, like we've we've probably got some bad commands out there, but we have a lot of good ones. We do, you know, a lot of good ones. And you know, I s and that's why I'm like so inspired by you. Like I see how you're leading from the top, you know, and even after retirement, like you're you know, you've got a smile on your face, you're truly living, you know, and it's inspirational. We need people like you to inspire um the youth, like these kids, like you are their hero, you know what I mean? Like, and it takes people like you to invest in um in their lives, you know, and like see something unique and golden about them and go, Hey, check this out, you know, um, and be just inspirational. Like I said, I see you like working out and like taking care of yourself, you know, that is incredibly inspiring. And you do it with a happy face, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Ah, and some little bit of back pain. I actually had to have a steroid shot today, unfortunately. I broke down, but uh, you know, that's right. I also think still part of the aging process, unfortunately. You're probably not gonna be pain-free uh as you get older, but you gotta work through it and and still try to be healthy. But what I also really want to know too is that I think there's some really good things to to pull from this, and that is the way your community rallied around you. I mean, I see it here in the comments. There are so many people who, even as we're talking or tuning in and providing feedback and providing information. And one of the things that a lot of people don't understand about the military either, and and and uh delirious uh brought it up, and I've I've talked about it on my show before, which is girl, which is that Congress must overturn the Ferris doctrine. I mean, the Ferris doctrine for people who don't know what that is, is you can't, well, somebody is impacted on active duty, unfortunately, they have no rights to sue the Department of Defense for damages. And so that includes medical malpractice, unfortunately. And so if you've got a botched surgery or something goes wrong in the emergency room, like what happened with Lauren Paladini, unfortunately, she's not eligible for anything other than a claim. So, and that brings up a good question uh for you, Heather. Are you still eligible to go through the army claims process for a wrong?
SPEAKER_02:Well, we did go through that process and they initially denied me um the claim because there was an independent administration, an independent contractor um they said was um working at the WAMAC Army Medical Center. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Independent contractor, well, and then they they didn't tell me until after the statute of limitations had run out. And so one of the things that Jodie Arrington and I worked on was to make sure that that hole was plucked, um, and that um they have to tell families when there isn't a that when there is a um uh independent contractor involved. And they have to tell them within a you know respectful amount of time. Um and so we had a um you know law written about that in the National Defense Authorization Act.
SPEAKER_03:So if I'm understanding right, because of the fact that an independent contractor who worked at the hospital was the one who treated Caleb because of that, you were not eligible for a for a claim to file a claim of medical malpractice because of that information, which is absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion, because it isn't like you have any control as a military member. Like, oh, you go to the army hospital and you say, Oh, I only want to see the ones who are working for the Department of Defense. I don't want to see any independent contractor because if I see that person, then if something happens, I won't be eligible for a claim. Like you won't even think to ask that question.
SPEAKER_02:There's no and and how would you know to ask that question? Right. And do you even know about the Ferris Doctrine?
SPEAKER_03:Right. Well, I didn't know the military. No. I didn't. In fact, it wasn't until I became a podcaster that I learned about the Ferris Doctrine. So I had shoulder surgery, not knowing about the Ferris Doctrine. Now, what I would maybe I would have still gotten it, but I would have liked to have at least known that there was no recourse if a mistake were to happen.
SPEAKER_02:I would like to do that. I think that's why it's important for me for families that have kids going into the military and want to go into military, this time-honored tradition to know about the Ferris Doctrine. You should know about the Ferris doctrine. I'm sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. It's okay. I was just saying, like, you know, they it's important, I think, for them to know about the Ferris Doctrine, what their rights are and what their rights are not, and to know about the claims process. You know, it's these are things that you find out until um you you just don't have any clue. I thought we took the best care of our service members. Holy cow, do I know different now? You know, I hear and see what happens in our VA and hospitals, and and I've talked to many um veterans and I've talked to many um folks that are in and serving now. Um, and I've hear people say, you know, even that they've been turned away from the WAMAC Army Medical Center. So um it's not making this up, you know. I'm reading it from I'm deducing what happened to my son, and I'm also listening to other people that have reached out to me, cried out to me.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I'm pretty sure that it was uh Lauren Paladini who was seen at the Awamak Army Medical Center as well. So I think that you're now the second person.
SPEAKER_02:So is Richards Stay School, the namesake of the Stay School Act, which is an amendment to the Ferris Doctrine. Right. Right, and and my understanding is he was even and he was denied his medical malpractice claim. Yes. That's just incredible. I will say that we did go back um after the after they denied the claim. I had a medical doctor look at um uh his medical records, his real medical records. Um and they discovered that's where they discovered um the all the stuff they were trying to cover up. Um the the fact that his his um uh blood pressure was getting worse and not better, he was running a fever, you know, couldn't keep down food, water. Um they in fact told him to not drink anything, um not to drink any water, and he threw up, you know, and this is while he's in, you know, the ER. And um, and so once we just started discovering some of these things, the the doctor that viewed his medical records actually messaged me and sent me a picture of his signature, and she said in the note it said that the that he that the nurse had to guide his hand to the line so that he could sign himself out of the ER. And that picture made me cry for like 30 minutes because it was just chicken scratch.
SPEAKER_03:That's just so sad, and it's so broke my heart when I saw that.
SPEAKER_02:And he, you know, Caleb and I had been trying to, you know, meet up to talk, and I his his um 1st brigade was coming, was um coming back into the United States um employing, and 2nd Brigade was about to deploy, and he was um in 2nd Brigade combat team. He had he had just gotten there um on Thanksgiving Day of 2019, and you know, seven seven weeks later he was dead. Um but um yeah, it's it's it's unbelievable. Um you know, his his his uh colonel, when I met his colonel on base at Fort Bragg for his memorial, his colonel told me, Colonel Scotty Otan, uh told me that he takes the best care of his paratroopers and that he treats him like family. And then, you know, nine months later, when I started unraveling all this and discovering the truth, and you know, I confronted him and I said, Hey, you know, you didn't check on him. And he said, Yes, ma'am, we did. But I will tell you that whenever I had um the army secretary Chris Christine Christine E. Warmouth, um uh so kindly reopened Caleb's case, she discovered that that was just not the truth. In fact, she told me the first thing she did was walk up to me and told me, ma'am, I'm I'm sorry that Army failed you and your son. And she let me play for her like an eight-minute video. I think I sent it to you.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, she did.
SPEAKER_02:Um I played that for her, just a synopsis of Caleb's life. And and I told her, I said, ma'am, nobody checked on my son. And she said, Miss Baker, she reached her hand across the table and she said, Miss Baker, I want to let you know that nobody checked on your son. And I said, Ma'am, I needed to hear you say that.
SPEAKER_03:How sad is it that that's the person that had to own it too?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'm just so that shows a lot of honor, honestly. It does on her part. Absolutely. On her part, it absolutely doesn't. It's despicable on his command's part that they can't be more of they can't be more of a soldier.
SPEAKER_03:They can't be more human and say we failed and we're sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because all they're thinking about human kind.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's just an act of humankindness, really, to just check on somebody. It's the simplest, you know, thing that you can do. Um, and it's something that we can all learn from, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but uh it's tell tell me a little bit. It sounds like you were able to get some legislation passed about the contractor issue and making sure that people are informed. And if they are informed, they they have the option to uh what does that mean? Like by being informed, what will that what does that give them?
SPEAKER_02:You know, that's a good question. Um, I'm not sure what it and then that's that's the hard part about creating um laws, right? It's like you want to know like how does this how does that actually look? Yeah. It's like the the yeah, what is that, what are you actually gonna do?
SPEAKER_03:You know, I don't mean to ride you here on this, but yeah, like if we're going to pass this bill, what it where does it what does it really lead to? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um I think they the answer is that it was uh the c it's written in the Senate Armed Service Committee's conference report, and that means that they're supposed to be asking the army, so how's that going?
SPEAKER_03:I see.
SPEAKER_02:And so um, you know, but it takes a lot of prying and a lot of emails and a lot of meeting with people to find out like what that really means and what it really and how does that look? What does that look like? Tell me more about this, you know. Um, and so it's just a constant process of inquiring. And here I am six years later, still inquiring. You know, we've we've got the um, and and so gratefully that law was written.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but yeah, let's it's like there's find out so many if a contractor does operate or does see a service member, what does that mean now? And then what more uh what does that mean?
SPEAKER_02:Unfortunately, we can't take away the contractors because there's just not enough army uh military doctors that are actually certified.
SPEAKER_03:Right. But then why why can't the claims process cover the contractors as well?
SPEAKER_02:I would I would I would say that well I think that they I think the claims process is is is working out to be another um just red tape, a scene of red tape. You know, somehow I was able actually get through um this my second route uh when I when I had the independent when I had the uh medical doctor look at his paper, his uh medical uh history, um we were able to find some things that you know point blank said medical malpractice, you know. And so we were able to actually, we actually won uh that claim um this last year. And so um, you know, that's a win. That is a win. It is, but the thing is now that you know, I was hoping what what I was hoping that it would do would make more way for more families to have some success um and have some justice. Um, but actually what it did is it shut the whole door, it seems, because they're my my um attorney, Daniel Maharaj, has spoken to me about many other cases that um he has tried to push and inquire about, and they're basically just shutting the door. So um it's it's very confusing to me, and I don't understand it, but um I know that there are some people that are in office now that um uh hopefully can, you know, get more answers than I can.
SPEAKER_03:Yep, and push it to the next level. So tell me a little bit about the SMIDI check. Like what is that going to do?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, I think that's the best part. It's it is the SMIDI check is what has needed to happen. It's just it's and it's really it's written in the creeds, it's written in the NCO creed where it talks about you know not leaving uh you know uh a soldier behind, and that that you know, your soldiers are the most important part of your job, you know, especially if you have eight to ten of them that you're in control, you know, uh you're um that you're leading.
SPEAKER_04:Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but the swinny check is a face-to-face check, it's an um accountability check.
SPEAKER_03:And is it a requirement for the chain of command to each day do something to check in with a soldier service member?
SPEAKER_02:Well, what it is is it's not necessarily it's um, you know, and I think that um from the army standpoint, they have written this new army policy, which is another thing that the Army Secretary gave to me that day. Not only did she confirm what I knew to be true, was that nobody checked on Caleb, she also let me know that she reopened Caleb's case and she had disciplined some people, and the most culpable people had already left the Army. Um, but she also handed me a new Army policy, um, an accountability policy, and in that policy, um, she specifies a bunch of things, but most importantly, I think, um, is that it was sent to the TRADOC, their training program. It was sent to every every department of the army, which was impressive. And but it also the most important part to me is that we connect the dots on uh a face-to-face check versus a virtual check, you know, reaching out through uh telephonic means, if they're not responding through telephonic means of some nature, then you have to go and find that person face-to-face and not just knock on their door and be like, well, they're not here. Like if they're not there, then why aren't they there? You know, his Caleb's roommate thought that Caleb had uh gone out of town. Well, are you kidding me? He didn't even have a car. Right. Like he he couldn't even go get groceries, you know, unless it was like at the you know, uh convenience store or whatever, you know, the closest little spot for him to to get some, you know, junk food. Sure, sure, you know, um and walking within walking distance. So um, but uh, you know, and then he's spraying verbreze to cover up this really peculiar smell. And I'm like thinking to myself, like, um, you know, a rat's a dead rat smells pretty bad, like you can smell roaches and things like that. So, like a dead body that's putrefied and mummified that's in the fifth stage of decomposition, you're just throwing some verbreze on top of that, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable. And it's unacceptable that the people who were retired were not held accountable. I look at it like if Pete Hagseth can hold Senator Kelly responsible for a video with letter of censor. I mean, that that's really where this goes, right? Like, like if he can do that, I agree with you. When I heard that, I was like, Are you kidding? Like, if he can do that for something so, in my view, so petty, because it was petty. Um, the guy, I get why he said it, but he didn't, in my opinion, I'm not gonna get too political, but he didn't say anything illegal saying you do not you can you should not follow ill unlawful orders. That is a legal thing to say to somebody. And but but let's just let's just take it out of that. You're gonna write a letter of censure, you're going to bring recall him back to active duty from retirement for a video. But the people who were responsible for not checking up on your son they just get to retire. I mean, it's just it blows my mind. Blows my mind.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a real gut punch. It's it's heartbreaking, and it doesn't make sense why you can't pull these people back in. And here's the deal they were given a chance to be a part of that investigation, the reopen investigation, and they declined based on their representative, you know, their attorney's um advice.
SPEAKER_03:Right. They were worried about being being sued. And and and I but see, and this is the world we live in, sadly, because you can't get answers to what really happened because everybody's running scared, because we've turned into a litigus society of lawfare instead of a society where hard conversations can happen. And mistakes were made, yes, and accountability needs to happen, yes. But at the same time, that accountability should still be able to happen without the threat of lawfare or bankruptcy or a lifetime in prison. There has to be some balance there, uh so that you get the answers that you need, the people can learn from their mistakes, absolutely and better going forward.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, they could have just if they could have just been honest about it from the very beginning. I would, you know, my heart is to forgive. My heart is to love and to help. Um, I just wanted us to learn from our mistake, but now we're running away from the truth. Now that that puts things a little differently, you know, that makes me go, oh, let me pursue this a little bit further then. Yeah, exactly. You know, I I I I would love to put this whole thing to rest. I really would. Um, but I just can't.
SPEAKER_03:Not if people are covering it up.
SPEAKER_02:Not if people were covering it up. And I have here's the deal is however they treated Caleb's case is how they're gonna treat your son or your daughter's case. And that's a fact.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I agree with you, and that's that's where that's why you got to keep talking about it. That's why you have to see this through, uh, no matter how long it takes.
SPEAKER_02:And I what kind of thing, you know, I just think about myself like just sitting over in Lubake, Texas, you know, my feet up, like picking, you know, my my teeth with a cactus or something, you know. Like, I mean, how dare I? How dare I? Like, if I know the truth and I know something that could help somebody else, and there's a red flag, and then I better get on it, man. I better get on it. Like, I I'm sorry, I'm not I'm not that kind of person to just go, well, it happened. And it's this the military, and I'm gonna just believe everything they say. And you know, I I I had to sit through very uncomfortable moments of me standing up to these people with all this these fruit salad, no disrespect, but uh sure, sure. Um, you know, it just looks like clownville after a while, you know, your teacher, even you know, your professional uh educator, your you know, veteran yourself, you know. Um yeah, it's you just want people to do kids.
SPEAKER_03:You just want people to do the right thing, and sometimes uh sadly, uh it's it's it's difficult to get them. That's the world we live in. Look in look at Washington, DC right now. I know it's we we can't we're gonna well I mean we we have a society where people can't even listen to people that they disagree with. I I I'm being tacked attacked relentlessly for having Daniel Gade on, who is a person who does not believe that some veterans deserve the disability benefits that they have. It's a very controversial topic, yes. But should we listen to him? Yes, we should. Because guess what? He's got the ear of Congress, he's testifying in the Senate. So let's listen to where he's coming from and have another opinion. But you know what happened? I got attacked relentlessly in my YouTube uh video about it, which I'm okay with. I mean, I I knew that it was a controversial issue and I knew that that he would I would get attacked, but it's just a reflection of the fact that we can't have hard conversations because people just wanna people just want to like you know curl up and oh no, we can't talk about these things. No, we need to talk about it. They can't answer hard questions.
SPEAKER_02:No, they can't answer them, and that I've been asking very simple point-blank questions for six years, and still, you know, here's the deal is you know they thought I was really stupid. They first of all redacted Caleb's uh death scene photos from the investigation. I'm like, um, hello. Hello there, hi. I would like to see those photos, please. Oh, but we don't want to cause you any more pain, suffering, all the pain. Hand them over. Thank you very much. Well, they finally did, but they sent it over in a in a um it's well, first of all, the file was encrypted, right? And so then then there's these, it's just a picture. Um, oh, that was the sorry, the autopsy was the was the encrypted part. So they sent me over just the document. They didn't want me to have it in um to where I could make the picture bigger or anything like that. So it's it's just a like four pages of of you know, maybe like two-inch photos, right? All in black and white. Wow. Yeah, and so his autopsy photos were the ones I was saying um that were on an encrypted disc. I had to have some help opening those for the first time because I didn't want to see anything that I didn't need to see. Um of course now I've seen them all, but uh just because I needed to just see it, you know, just needed to go, okay, what the hell? Let's just let's just cut the crap here, you know, like what's really happening here, and but it really showed me what uh there's more to it. There's still more to it. And um, because what I can see in the photo is um in the autopsy photo, there's blood smeared across his mouth. And I think to myself, why would there be blood smeared across his mouth if he died of acute bacterial meningitis? So you don't bleed out, you don't with acute bacterial meningitis, but there's other things that can cause you to bleed out like that. And in the black and white photos, you can clearly see a giant black stain underneath Caleb's body, it's not a blanket.
SPEAKER_03:Hmm. Wow.
SPEAKER_02:So there's just a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of things.
SPEAKER_03:There's a lot of crazy stuff, yeah that's still not clear. And I I can only hope, Heather, that as time goes by you get those answers. And I think just being public with your story will help somebody else because sadly this might happen, or some sort of a similar situation might happen, and at least the people know that you're out there and that you fought this fight. And I really, really applaud you for having the courage to come on here and to share what has happened and to just keep keep fighting. And and and the things that you're doing now today. I mean, you've got the dog training business, you're you're doing so you you've you've taken something that that is so tragic and you've turned it into something that is um healing. And that's what I wanted to kind of end with was what how has this made you different from where you were before this happened?
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, it has changed my zip code. I am a completely different human than I once was, you know. But I think what it has caused me to do is either you can live or die, you know, through grief and tragedy. And the best part is when you can truly live, when you can decide and make a decision to truly live. And what does that look like for each one of us? It's a little different, but for me, I started off with, you know, here's I here's little old Heather, just like, hey, you know, by herself. Like I I needed, I felt like I needed to look a little bigger, you know. So I went and got my concealed carry uh uh license and just learned a little bit, and then I started learning a little bit more, and then I had I got an invite to go um check out some competitive shooting, and that was amazing and dynamic, and you could actually work through uh you know mag changes and and uh squibs and things like that, like you know, bullets get stuck in a chamber, you know, like think on your feet, and you have adrenaline running through you, and you really get to um hash out like uh what it means to be, you know, um uh a carrier, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Um and yeah, there's some power in that. In fact, it's funny you say that because next week I'm I'm having a uh person who believes in safe gun ownership and is really invested in even teaching these kinds of practices within inner cities, within low-cost income areas, uh within the community, and and I really can't wait to have them on.
SPEAKER_02:So uh well, yeah, I see it because it's extremely empowering. Now the dogs, I I I really, you know, just had always loved working dogs. I've always loved dog training. Um, I can't say that I was very good at it. Um, I didn't know a lot um a lot about it, I guess, when I first started. But um I what I did was I said, I want a Belgian Malamo. And so I found a trainer that said, Do you really want a Malgian Belgian Malamo? Let me let me let you know like how this actually works. And so actually um I I worked with a trainer for before I got my own dog and um would go to classes and work that dog and um and take some you know guidance and everything. Um uh the dog was trained in German and and it was just like a whole new world for me. And so I realized that this is it, man. Like I really want one. So we started looking for a Belgian Malin Law. Um, I needed something to get me out of bed to um give me something fun to do um with life instead of just sitting at home by myself, you know. And so um it just that you know, Caleb the word, the name Caleb means dog, and it just means loyal. And it's it goes back to me like um there's this a quick story, real quick. I want to share the story of Caleb in his airborne training, uh his last uh up, it was the last hill um in Fort Benning when you're getting your airborne wings, and they're running up this hill with all their gear on and everything. And this young lady um who had served with Caleb um came to find me at his memorial and she said, ma'am, I I Oh, I think we lost you, Heather.
SPEAKER_03:Uh we lost you on camera, and then we lost you uh on the audio as well. But if she doesn't come back here, I'll probably have to close out the call without the story, which is really unfortunate. But what I want to do is thank all of you for taking the time to join us and to hear this this very hard story, but this very important story of accountability, of truth, of advocacy. And it's something that we need to be having these conversations and we need to be showing a light on these issues because they sadly will not change unless we have the courage to speak up about them. So I want to thank Heather so much for the opportunity for me to share her story with all of you. And if you have any questions about the SMIDI check, please, please, please reach out to Heather. She has a lot of information about this issue, and she's really paved the way when it comes to the claims process within the Department of Defense, which is the only way, unfortunately, at this point that we can have any kind of uh restitution uh when these kinds of incidences happen, especially in the medical malpractice world. So with that, I think I will sign off if we don't get Heather back here. But I want to, as I always do, thank all of you for taking the time to join us on this podcast tonight, another hard episode, as I do a lot of these kinds of episodes, but I believe that they're very important. And I believe in giving people like Heather a voice. So with that, as I always say, please, oh, I think I got her back. Hold on just one second. Let's go back to that story, Heather. I'm gonna add you back to the stage. Okay. All right. So tell me, tell us again about so sorry, guys.
SPEAKER_02:Um so uh this was such a precious memory um moment. Um, this young lady, this young pear trooper walks up to me at Caleb's Memorial and she says, Miss Baker, I just wanted to let you know that I owe Caleb my airborne wings. I said, Oh, you do not, ma'am. Uh little lady. And she said, but I do, and she was crying, and she told me that, you know, in the formation, um, when they're running, uh, it's like, you know, the um leadership, you know, upper leadership is at the front of formation, and and then the women and um, you know, um, like the PVs back, you know. And um she said that she had remembered Caleb um from um Fort Benning, or no, Fort Fort Leonard Wood, actually. They were at Fort Leonard Wood um and in AIT. And um I think she was in upper leadership above him, and you know, she just recognized him. And then when they got to airborne school, um it was one of those, oh, I recognize you, right? Well, anyway, um she's they're they're in that last uh formation run up this giant hill, and she said that she starts falling back and is behind. And she said he came around her and pushed her up in front of him and said, ma'am, don't quit now. You've got this. And that is like she said that she could feel his the his knuckles in her through the backpack, uh kind of adding pressure to her as she was running up this hill so that she could make it up the hill. And what a beautiful picture of what this mini-check really is. It's just it's just about checking on people and going back the extra mile. Take take a moment to be human and to make a connection with somebody. Um everybody needs somebody, and we can all learn from this, you know, and whether I, you know, the SMIDI check passes or any of this stuff happens, you know, um, like I want it to, you know, um other people held accountable and etc. You know, the the fact of the matter is is that um we're all human and we all need somebody to cheer us on and to have our back. And you know, the battle buddy system is a battle buddy system for a reason. And so we just need to reconnect. Um, you know, we don't all come from the same kind of homes, household experiences. We don't have the same history, you know. And so um it's you know, working in the military, I I I've never was in the military, but I just know as a parent, um, and in basic training, they have you um support, you know, they have the families um write letters and things like that. Um, and you know, we think, oh yeah, okay, that's done, but it's never done. Like there's there's so much support, you know, working in the military. You've got to have the support, you know, from your people.
SPEAKER_03:And it's and I think that you're a connector, Heather. I do. I mean, I'm seeing so many people who've who've joined throughout the call tonight. I mean, Matthew, you know, was talking earlier, it's Leadership 101. Uh Jennifer, uh, she's she's been on the call. Thank you for having Heather on this podcast. Love you, Jennifer. There's been a um also Cindy said she loved you as well. Cindy Darknell said, Love you.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I love these people. I've my community has definitely backed me, and I've that my um the people that I have met through um this tragedy, other families. We share a bond. Um, we share a connection. Having a soldier or service member that dies non-combat is very different than having someone that dies um as a hero. But Caleb, you know, he's a he's a young man that died by the hands of his heroes.
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna say, and he sounded like a hero, that's that story he was shared with me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And and I'm I I just um I I think about you um as a leader and a hero to me, and and you're being that, you know, for so many others right now, and by just having, just by just using your voice and letting other people have a say. And um, you're right, like we like we need to be able to learn how to have conversations and natural conversations, and you make it very easy to do that. And so um I'm just hoping that our current service members can find some way to connect. And you know, uh, they used to call it oak tree counseling. We're just calling it a face-to-face check, it's a smitty check. And I say, like, um, who doesn't love a SMIDI? So I love Caleb's um nickname was uh Smitty, and so it just makes sense. So I got my hat on.
SPEAKER_03:I love it. I know I saw, I saw, and then I also I think I I found I I made sure to put up this picture here. I think I still have it up here. Uh let's see, right here. Had to stage. There we go.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so yes.
SPEAKER_03:All right, Heather.
SPEAKER_01:That was at the Martin Lizard King Monument in DC.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, wonderful, wonderful. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to show all the images during the show. But but thanks for having me on, guys. I I love the opportunity to talk with you. You're such an inspiration. And uh I'll meet you backstage very quickly to say goodbye, but I'm gonna go full screen and do my and do my closing, even though I already kind of did it. But thank you so much, Heather. Thank you so much. Love you guys. Definitely keep in touch. We love you. All right, guys. That's a wrap for tonight. Uh, this is my only podcast this week. Next week, I think I have two, so please stay tuned. I'll have a couple promos coming to you as I always do. Uh like I said earlier, take care of yourselves, take care of each other. And even if we disagree, let's all please remember that we're humans and kindness matters. So thanks a lot, guys. Have a wonderful night.