S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work

From Kicked Out to Cleared of 19 Federal Charges with Forrest Mize | S.O.S. #243

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What does it really cost to lead with integrity when the system leans the other way? We sit down with Forrest, a former naval flight officer and mission commander, whose career bends from high school dropout to strike planner for Kosovo—and later into the crosshairs after he refused to hide a serious security breach on a remote island base. The stories move fast: carrier decks and air tasking orders, isolated duty stations that no one wanted, and the everyday creativity required to keep crews motivated and safe.

Forrest opens up about the moment a civilian smuggled a pistol and ammo onto San Nicolas Island to kill feral cats, how his CO ordered him to bury the report, and why he said no. That choice triggered nineteen charges, an NCIS probe, a revoked clearance, and threats of prison and pension loss. With a sharp JAG at his side and a website full of documents, he fought back, demanded a court-martial, and watched the case crumble. Along the way, we talk Desert Storm’s waning days, the grind of multinational targeting in Kosovo, and the hard truth that institutions can honor your work on Monday and disown you by Friday.

Beyond the uniform, Forrest built a thriving charter operation in California, rescued people at sea, and eventually traded the coast for Idaho, where a wolf encounter became a courtroom headline. The through line is steady: tell the truth, document everything, and keep showing up for the people who count on you. If you care about military leadership, whistleblower courage, and practical strategies for advocacy when the process turns against you, you’ll find real tools here—plus candid advice on writing a memorable military memoir that sticks to facts and reads like lived experience.

If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a lift, and leave a quick review so more listeners can find these stories. Your support helps us bring forward voices that remind us why service, courage, and clarity still matter.

The stories and opinions shared on Stories of Service are told in each guest’s own words. They reflect personal experiences, memories, and perspectives. While every effort is made to present these stories respectfully and authentically, Stories of Service does not verify the accuracy or completenes

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SPEAKER_00:

What does it take to stand up for your beliefs and stand by your ethics and lead with integrity? Well, on the Stories and Service Podcast, we have a lot of people who do just that. And sometimes that comes at a price, and sometimes it comes with a lot of colorful stories. And today is no different. And we'll be sharing some of those stories. Forrest, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm fine. Thanks. And thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I am really excited to talk to you and to get a little feel for some of the colorful experiences you've had throughout your career and some of the leadership lessons that you've taken away from that career. But before we get started, as we always do, welcome to the Stories of Service Podcast. Ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I'm the host of Stories of Service, Teresa Carpenter. And to get this podcast kicked off, as we always do, an introduction from my father, Charlie Pickard.

SPEAKER_01:

We are inspiring others. By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS.

SPEAKER_00:

And as I said, Flores' life has never followed that typical script. He walked away from high school without a diploma and somehow turned that fork in the road into a 20-year career as a naval flight officer and mission commander in one of the most complex aircraft in the fleet, the E2C Hawkeye. His deployments took him across five different carriers and into the heart of operations most people only read about in the footnotes of military history. When he was not flying, he went to assignments that sometimes no one else wanted Kyushu, Korea, Italy, Okinawa, and even the isolated San Nicolas Island. These places were hard, the work was harder, and the responsibility was enormous. But along that same career arc, he found himself kicked out of the Navy, recalled a month later, and flying missions that span counter narcotics in Central America, counterterrorism in Africa, airline crash recovery, desert storm, and the air war in Kosovo. So today we're going to talk about some of these stories. They're filled with sharp turns. Forrest has helped stop drug smugglers, save lives, lost friends who came close to losing his own. And at his final duty station, he confronted corruption on an island airbase, a choice that sadly ended with two sailors dead. Forrest fired and 19 federal charges hanging over him. But he refused to stay quiet. And he's just the kind of person that I love on the Stories of Service podcasts. Welcome again.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_00:

So, first off, as I always ask my guests, where were you born and raised? And what made you decide in the first place to join the Navy?

SPEAKER_02:

I was born and raised in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. My dad was a career marine officer and uh ended up in Virginia Beach after one of his duty stations. And that's where I dropped out of high school and and started the construction work. But I was always right there stationed by Oceania. You know where it is. I was always interested in seeing the jets overhead. I met a lot of the pilots and it just made a huge impact on me. I'd go watch the Blue Angels and I was just super impressed. And I thought, what's it going to be like to be one of those guys? Didn't think I could ever do it, but uh I got really lucky and uh I got I got accepted into flight school as pretty much a high school dropout. So it's it's it's a unique story in itself, but then I had a pretty colorful career too.

SPEAKER_00:

So what was it that you think they saw in you uh to get accepted into flight school when you didn't necessarily have the typical, I would say, credentials of some of you the your colleagues at the time?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I I I I just met some really good people that were ROTC instructors, and they saw something in me. And the Navy was recruiting pretty hard during the Cold War. I joined in '88 and they recruited me in '84. And um I I just got lucky all the way through. I I managed to get a four-year degree in three years. The Navy, I didn't even know there was two-year Navy ROTC, but they picked me up and um paid my way and made it really easy for me. So I was grateful to Navy ROTC for getting me where I am.

SPEAKER_00:

And what was the first few duty stations like in your career? Were there any anything that stands out or or anything's anything that was as particularly significant?

SPEAKER_02:

Um my f my first real duty station, I was a Hawkeye NFO in VAW 117 at Miramar, and it was it was fairly typical. We deployed twice on the Lincoln, and uh we went to Desert Storm and we went on around the horn cruise, and I I wrote about it in the book. It's it's pretty standard stuff. We were in to kind of the tail end of Desert Storm. We got there as the air war was winding down, and uh Yeah, it was all pretty typical right up until the end. I um I wrote a uh column in the local newspaper about the Rodney King riots, and one of our one of our sailors who was in jail saw my article and he wrote a he wrote a rebuttal to it where he said I was in the KKK and that got me in some trouble, which of course I'm not in the KKK and I never was, but you know, back then the era of political correctness, all they had to do was say it. That makes it so.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And and that is something that I think even to this day we're still struggling with, which is this idea that we can't really say what we feel or we can't speak our beliefs without somebody thinking that we're racist or that we're this or they're that. And I think that that really just shuts down the conversation. And you experienced that not only then, but uh just throughout your career, you've always been somebody who's who who spoke up. Um, whether I mean you could there were a lot of instances of that that you talk about uh in the book. Uh the book is amazing, by the way. The book is called Hard Fills. I have it right here. Sea stories from a high school dropout career naval flight officer. And it's an absolutely amazing book. So highly recommend you pick it up because each chapter has sort of a different story or a different experience that you had. And uh, what would you say during those those first few years that were were formative to where your career ended up going next?

SPEAKER_02:

What was formative for me was just coming from uh being a nobody overnight, just about I and truly was just about overnight. I went from being a carpenter to being a naval flight officer in days because I really did work my way through college driving nails. And uh as soon as I graduated, I was headed off to Pensacola the next day I was in flight school, and um just getting to work with such great people was I I never planned to do beyond my six years, but I loved the people so much I stayed for twenty.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. But it it was really interesting too in the book is was the fact that you were let out of of the Navy, right? And then you came back in.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. My you know what the story about me being a KKK member uh got me in some trouble with my FitREP. So after the second time I failed to promote to lieutenant commander, I was stationed in Korea. They kicked me out. It was uh 1999, March of 1999, they kicked me out, and then a month later they the Kosovo war started and they decided they needed guys with uh strike planning backgrounds, and I was a strike planner, so they they called me up and said, Hey, will you come back on active duty?

SPEAKER_00:

Is it was that difficult to try to get back on active duty when when you'd been gone for when you've been gone? And then what did you what tell me tell us a little bit about what you did while you were not in the military during that break?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, during that break, I uh uh uh a lot of stuff happened, and I wrote about it in the book. It was a whirlwind two months. I got married, I bought a house, I got a job, I um I accidentally made a$1.8 million in the stock market and paid off my mortgage, and then the the Navy called me up and said, Hey, you want to come back on? And I I said, Not really, you guys just kicked me out a month ago, and and then they the commander that I spoke to gave me a a spiel about how we're getting ready to go bomb Kosovo and we need guys like you to demand strike ops in the targeting cell. And I said, You know what? I I I kind of miss the Navy. I'll I'll do it. So he said, I'll give you a presidential recall that's good for one year, even if the mission takes a week. So, and and we'll bring you back on as a lieutenant commander. So I said, All right, I'll I'll take it. And not only that, the day I got back on, uh I was eligible for the seven seventy-five thousand dollar aviation retention bonus. So I came back on with a big load of money, and uh they made me a lieutenant commander, and uh and I stayed in for twenty.

SPEAKER_00:

That's crazy. That's absolutely crazy. What was that deployment like?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh it was really busy. It was kind of shift work. You know, we were writing the air tasking order for um there must have, I think there was 14 different countries flying jets over Kosovo, and we were we were putting it all together, plus the top secret stuff from our B-52s, our uh F-117s, and there was even some submarines shooting tomahawks. So we had a a secret air tasking order, and then the one for all of Europe, and and we put it all together, me and a couple other officers.

SPEAKER_00:

That's awesome. I think there's just nothing better than being at sea and doing the nation's business. And when you get the opportunity to do that, it's a really incredible feeling. And it doesn't happen all the time. As you also point out in the book, there were other times that you served at sea, and you might have served at sea a little bit longer than what was required, but because it was politically correct for you to be there, you still had to be there, correct?

SPEAKER_02:

I did, yes. And I did a lot, I did a lot of C do a lot more than than I than I should have done. But like I said in the book, every time the detailer called me and said, Where do you want to go next? I said, Surprise me because I was just happy to be a Navy officer. I said, Send me wherever you want to send me. And that's what they did.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I think that's what sort of the point of the book, Hard Fills, is is the fact that you were willing to take those those jobs, those, those far-flung duty stations that other people don't want to take or that can't take because of medical or family or this or that. And what was what was your uh now your wife? I believe she was a teacher in London, or she's from originally from there?

SPEAKER_02:

She's she's British, but she was teaching in a uh junior college in Nagasaki, which is right next door to Sasebo, and that that's where I met her.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And what was that like for her to meet you and know, okay, this is gonna be my life now. I'm gonna move around, I'm gonna be always to having to pick up and go. How did that how did that adjustment happen?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, we never even really talked about that. I met her in Sasebo, and then a couple days after I met her, I got underway for Australia. And from Australia, I went to Korea, and she came and visited, and you know, that's that was nice, but then I got then I got kicked out of the Navy back to California, and uh, she came and visited in California on a tourist visa, and when it expired, we just decided to get married. And uh, you know, we're we're not specially romantic, but it it's all worked out, and we've been married 27 years now.

SPEAKER_00:

Congratulations. That's amazing. I think that there's always a give and take with the military life. I met my husband when I was 40, and I don't think he understood exactly what was involved in being a the spouse and and all the travel that we would I don't think you anticipated we would travel every two years, and you were moving quite often as well, weren't you?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I did. I did a lot of moving, but my wife's super independent. She's just as happy when I'm out at sea as when I'm home. No problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Right, right. And when you transferred over to uh your last duty station, um, did you know that was gonna be your last duty station?

SPEAKER_02:

I did. I I was a fail-to-select commander, and that is they that's where they send you to kind of mark time until you got your 20 in.

SPEAKER_00:

Mm-hmm. And that was another- I really liked it.

SPEAKER_02:

I I I really super enjoyed San Nicolas Island, loved it.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And then you did a lot there that I found that I read about in the book that I found pretty exciting too. I mean, you you set up a lot of recreational programs, you were able to kind of get people into a rhythm and and sort of take over from a I think from somebody that really hadn't really run it as well uh very, very well, is my understanding.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's right. It was it was pretty corrupt uh when I when I took over. And you know, I don't want to blow my own horn, but I by the time I left, it was a hidden gem of a duty station, and I was getting calls from all over the world. People wanted to be stationed on San Nicolas Island. Right, right about that time I got fired and hit with 19 federal charges.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yeah, that I want to get kind of get into that too, because I mean that whole story just blew me away. Blew me away. So tell us a little bit about why you faced some legal difficulty because a lot of my guests, when they come on the Stories of Service podcast, they're sharing their stories of legal difficulty. And it's a pretty stressful period for anyone who has to go through that. So tell me a little bit about how that got started for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I caught a civilian smuggling a pistol onto the island and a pistol and ammo, and she smuggled it aboard the island in a Air National Guard C-130. When I caught her, I had to make a report about it. It's it's illegal not to.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh so I made my report and um and back up the people she was smuggling this pistol to kill cats, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we had feral we have a feral cat problem on the island, and they were eating some of the indigenous seabirds and and and other animals there. So they wanted to kill the cats, they were trapping the cats, and the SOP was to give the cat a lethal injection. But it's it's it's uh there a wild cat is a handful to give an injection, so uh they she smuggled a pistol on the island to shoot the cats.

SPEAKER_00:

But you can't make this stuff up, you just can't, you really can't.

SPEAKER_02:

So anyway, I caught her and I had I made a mandatory report because she smuggled the pistol through the gates of of my base, um the Channel Islands Air National Guard base and NAS Point Magoo, and then flew it on a military aircraft. And and all of that is really illegal. We didn't have an army or anything for civilian firearms, so I had to make a report. I made the report, and it turned out that she was a friend of my CO, and he was afraid of the environmental department. So he told me, hush up this report, make it go away. And I said, Hey, I can't make it go away. It's uh, you know, the Air National Guard Aircraft Commander has already submitted it up his chain of command, and he's pissed about it that somebody smuggled ammo on his plane. What if the plane caught on fire? Sure. So he told me to hush it up, and it's because the environmental department has a huge pull on a military base. You know, they can shut it down for some endangered moth or worm or uh a noise complaint or a water complaint or or they shut down amphibious landings for a bird nesting on the beach. They've just got huge power, and he was afraid of them, and he threw me under the bus for reporting this pistol smuggling incident.

SPEAKER_00:

That's just crazy. So what happens next?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, what happened next? I got fired, I got investigated by NCIS, I had my security clearance removed. He tried to uh send me to Iraq twice, not not because they needed me in Iraq, punitive, you know, they um for for making this report. Uh he threatened me with prison, uh dishonorable discharge, loss of my pension. Uh he was an all-around bad guy. And then it's the minute I got fired off the island, two of my sailors got killed because they took kayaks out in a 40-not wind, and I wouldn't have let them do it, but the the replacement CO did, and and that's what happened. And then he tried to blame that on me, saying that I had an unsafe uh working environment.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. How did you end up fighting this? What did you what were what did you hire a lawyer? What were some of the resources you used?

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't hire a lawyer. They had a navy jag there, and she she was very helpful. She looked into all the charges and she said, These are all bull. Just stand your ground, demand a court martial and don't let them send you to mass because if you go to mass, the admiral can do whatever he wants to you. And the admiral's gonna go with uh one of his base skippers over a uh nobody lieutenant commander. So I I did stand my ground. I told him court-martial me. Course some court-martial me on all 19 charges. So then the charges started dropping after that. And then I I uh also, in addition to my attorney, I got a I bought a website called Banned from the Base because he banned me from the base. And so I put all the documents from this uh these 19 federal charges, I put them on on the website. Uh and and I got 20,000 hits the first week. And and you know, everybody's on my side. They knew what was going on.

SPEAKER_00:

I think for us, like the the the thread that I love about your story, and it's it's so much in the book, too, because the book is just so good, and every every one of them is just sort of a like what I love about this book is every every one of them is sort of a case study. It's kind of a case study of somebody, something happened, and the these were kind of the unique portions of this story, and these were some of the takeaways from it. But the thing is that you're you're an excellent storyteller. And I think that I say this all the time to my guests who are fighting these legal battles, you have to become your own best advocate, and you have to know how to tell tell the truth and tell your story, and don't let the stress of the situation under overwhelm you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, uh, you're absolutely right. And and I never did. I always knew I was in the clear on this. There's no way they were going to get me on 19 federal charges or any federal charges. I had 275 witnesses, all my staff on the island.

SPEAKER_00:

What what were the federal, like how were they, what what could they, I mean, why were they federal charges and not um when you say federal charges, do you mean you they they had you on like UCMJ charges or what were they finding?

SPEAKER_02:

Some of them some of them were, and they had they read me my rights on every one of them and told me I was going to prison, and some of them were theft of Navy property, UA, uh poaching. They had they they got me on about eight of them, seven or eight of them were poaching. Like they said I had illegal lobster traps on the island and I was lobster trapping, which which was uh which was a load, and I I was uh overfishing, fishing over the limit, fishing without a license. But then most of them were just standard disobeying a direct order. Sure. Because you can't you can't prove that the order was given or not, but of course it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00:

Mm-hmm. And and what you you're talking about too is very common to a lot of the people that come on the Stories of Service podcast where they start to go on a fishing expedition for whatever they can about whatever they can and anything just to try to pull you under to get you to just sort of submit to their process. Thank God you didn't do that.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's what they and I was my Jag was with me every step of the way, and the charges started dropping one after another. She'd she'd call me up every day and say, Hey, they dropped another charge and now they want you to accept mast. And I'd say, No, I'm not doing it. Court martial me. See you in court.

SPEAKER_00:

Were you stressed out during this period?

SPEAKER_02:

A little I had a couple of sleepless nights about it because you know when you're in for 18, I was in for 18 years at that point. My last two years was all spent at home fighting charges. And after 18 years, the Navy's your family, and and you just can't believe that they would throw you under the bus like this. And all the guardrails that are supposed to be there to protect guys like me, they didn't work at all. I I wrote the admiral, the chief of staff, the CNO, the Secretary of the Navy, my Congressman, my senator, my governor. I never even heard back from any of them. Right. The CO's word is law in the Navy, and I just couldn't believe they did that to me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, you're not alone. Uh that this is this is something that we have seen time and time again uh throughout many of our people that come on the show, people we hear about, there's now advocacy organizations that have sprouted up. just to help people who are in similar situations that you faced. And I think that the key to hopefully stopping these these kinds of uh this kind of behavior is due process and and having and having a a system that is fair to where a problem comes up, uh both both sides are heard and evidence on both sides is properly taken into consideration. And unfortunately we just we don't have that process within the military. And I would have had no idea about this by the way if I hadn't seen it firsthand uh with people I worked with and then of course started a podcast and had people come to me and start talking about this stuff. So tell me a yeah go ahead.

SPEAKER_02:

Well since you mentioned it I've heard from people all over the world that read my book and had stories similar to mine and and and uh it it's just amazing how fast the military can turn on you when they when they want a s uh a scapegoat.

SPEAKER_00:

Right exactly and and that's the thing is that I'm the people that have never been impacted by this and and and and there are people like that that just this has not happened to them and but I would guarantee you that if it hasn't happened to them they know somebody who it has happened to. And I I think that we all have a have a duty and a responsibility to speak up about it.

SPEAKER_02:

Was that what inspired you to write the book it sort of but uh I'll tell you about writing the book. Uh everybody that knows me knows I like to write and they know that I have a pretty colorful story and they were always telling me you should write a book you should write a book so so finally I I didn't think I had it in me but I sat down and wrote a few short stories that became my chapters and I sent them to some trusted advisors and shipmates and they all said man this is good stuff we'd love it. Write some more so I'd write a couple more stories and then they they said oh I love them too and then I started putting them in order and it sort of became an autobiography and then I went back through my old orders and travel claims and schools and fit reps to just to get all the the dates and times right and then that reminded me of more stories so I kind of fleshed it out a little bit and um and when I got it all together I sent it to to my friends and they said they said I love it. It's a great book and I did a little research what's the proper length for a military autobiography and it said 4000 to 8000 words unless you're General MacArthur and I was at 6000 so I just quit and um I submitted it to uh Kindle Publish and they they sent me an email that said we're going to run this through AI and we're gonna check it for format and grammar and spelling and plagiarism and and uh holes in the plot and everything and we'll get back to you in a couple days and they got back to me in a couple days and they said it had zero errors and so that was a surprise to me and so I hit the little publish button and then people started buying it right away. And believe it or not the first the first bunch of people that bought it were in Spain, France, Germany and Italy. There's a huge naval aviation fan club in Europe that's so fascinating. Me too I had no idea but I've gotten emails from all over the world on on this book.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah I will tell you the book is so well written and and that that is probably one of the things that impressed me about it. It's so detailed and well written and they like they're just they're little um how can I describe describe it it's they're they're vignettes every every part of the book is like this vignette about a particular part of your career. And what I also love about I'm flipping through it as I say this you you have a lot of imagery in here too that matches it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah it's even better on on Kindle because the pictures are in color and you can resize them.

SPEAKER_00:

So nice well I just I just love it and and and I think what I also love about it is like I said you you were you share these very unique stories about the like this is the one when you the prank from the forest uh rack prank where you have like the the gorilla right here I love that that was a good one that was a good prank I mean there's just like there's different things throughout it that that I love it's it's you talk about your dog and and and some of the and the hunting trips that you took with your dog.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah that was right there on point magoo you can duck hunt on base.

SPEAKER_00:

That's crazy. And that's what I love about it. It's not all about the mission it's about the family life it's about it and then after you got out of the Navy you also had a pretty colorful career. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah it was pretty colorful well I had a uh I I after I got out of the Navy I started a charter boat business. I already owned the boat but I just started taking people out and it became like a huge thing. I had government contracts I had movie contracts I had um researchers I had uh I was a smothership for a uh submarine that inspected pipelines and it and it became really lucrative but I got sort of taxed out of California and I and I had a I had a couple of fun incidents on there like the time I retrieved David Crosby's sailboat and took it back to him. Yes. And uh I had a a couple incidents where I got I gotten a little bit oh the the one about this sailboat where the guy tried to commit suicide and I rescued him. Remember that? I do. So I really enjoyed living in California but I I just got taxed out of it. They kept raising my taxes and I I I was just a retired Navy guy. I couldn't afford it there anymore. So I moved to Idaho and when I got to Idaho one of the first things that happened to me is I was out walking the dogs on my property and I a wolf attacked my dogs and I shot him and um I I killed I didn't know there were wolves on my property but I did I tried to do the right thing and call call fishing game and they wrote me a ticket for killing the wolf and I ended up in court. So and and uh when I ended up in court for the for the wolf it got picked up by the local news and then it went national so uh everybody I saw it on I saw myself on Fox News what for killing a wolf.

SPEAKER_00:

And people were upset because these wolves are endangered?

SPEAKER_02:

They're not endangered there's millions of them here.

SPEAKER_00:

We can't kill enough of them oh wow yeah but you not only that then you also um did don't you work with your neighbor like you have a neighbor of yours that you work with now?

SPEAKER_02:

Next door to me is a cattle ranch and when I first moved up here they it was a young couple trying to get this cattle ranch going and they were they were kind of uh over tasked and I was kind of under tasked so I just volunteered to help out and and I do I help them out all the time and it's it's I enjoy it it's something fun I don't get paid for it I just do it and they let me hunt elk on their property and they they give us um free beef and pork and duck and eggs and so it's a good deal for everybody.

SPEAKER_00:

I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02:

Um have you heard also from people uh in your career after you wrote the book like people that you served with who remember some of the stories or oh yeah tons yeah I there's a there's a Hawkeye alumni Facebook page and I I I put the book on there kind of pimp my own product a little bit and everybody that bought it said they love it. So um that's my only knowledge of advertising is putting my book on the Facebook page but one of these days I might try to find a real publisher and and um everybody that reads it loves it. And they all say and they all say oh I always say the same thing. Write me a review if you like it so much and they say oh I'm going to but then it doesn't show up.

SPEAKER_00:

So I think Amazon's screening my reviews or they just forget I mean people are so bad about that. I'll be the first to tell you too I get people all the time who say oh please write a review and then I I mean to and then I don't and so uh sometimes I think that happens as well. But no I agree I think the book is fantastic. It's a unique book that's what I think I like about it. It's not your typical memoir at all and it's not the I'm so great look at me I did all these things it's it's the these are these are just some of the unique things that happen when you serve in the Navy and you you take those weird jobs and and you have the ability to stand up for yourself and and stand up for others. And I think that's what really impressed me about the book is that you always stood by your principles and you you you you chose the harder roads.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean the easier road was to just go with the herd and I did and and about the writing you know people are people are asking me now are you going to write another book and I I have to tell them unfortunately not because I'm kind of just a straight line narrator. I don't have any creativity in my body I could write down my story because I lived it and I remembered it but I beyond that I I I don't think I could write anything else. Yeah yeah no I'm I'm sorry to getting back to a question you asked me a minute ago I also got in trouble about that Indonesia story during the the tsunami you know they they sent us on this tsunami rescue thing and the Indonesian government wouldn't let us fly our airplanes because we were in Indonesian airspace and I wrote a an article about that that became the number one most commented most page hits on uh soldiers for the truth and I got some blowback from that too but I you know they told me to back down and I didn't yeah yeah I mean I I I think that there needs to be those people uh in our world who are able to speak up and and speak out um and I think that what I also liked about your book and I and I try to do the same thing on my show is that you also talk about all the good people all the wonderful people that you served with that that did the right thing and that knew how to lead I did yep I 99% of the people that I I I served with in the Navy were just fantastic. There was very few that that uh stand out as bad actors.

SPEAKER_00:

Right right uh what advice do you have uh for others who want to write a book? I mean we have some a couple people I think in the audience uh who Kathleen Olson she she was listening in earlier and says I'm writing a book about my mom and dad any interest in this uh so and we have another person who who wrote a little bit uh in the comments about their journey writing a novel what would you say if somebody wants to write about their military career what advice would you have for them?

SPEAKER_02:

I would say do it the same way I did just take the things that you remember and write them down in individual stories and then when you're all done put the stories in order and it and and and fill in the blanks in between because that's what I did and it it it be it came pretty easy to me. So I have a pretty good memory I had a few things written down but mostly I had a lot of pictures I had a lot of paperwork to remind me of various stories but everybody who did the kind of stuff that we did has a great story and they need to write them all down before they forget them and that's that's exactly what I did.

SPEAKER_00:

What about the um have you always just been a natural storyteller? So like the arc of storytelling a lot of people don't understand all those different aspects that go into a good story. Did you know some of that already?

SPEAKER_02:

I I think I I probably did because I've always been I always like to write uh letters or you know letters to the editor or editorials or whatever and I wrote a column in this in the San Diego newspaper when I was there and I wrote one in Ventura when I was there. I I I like to tell stories. I don't know that I'm any good at it but I definitely write better than I speak.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm a terrible public speaker it is kind of interesting because you were so detailed and and and and in the book and and you're definitely different in person. You're just more you're more to the point and more direct and but I really enjoyed the book. I I I thought that there really there isn't another memoir out that out there that's kind that's like this that has all the different elements of of things that I I think I like about reading a book which are a really exciting stories the different high points the low points and and the truth and and that sometimes when I read these leadership books from from military leaders they just want to tell you all the great all the good stuff and it's like okay but there were there were probably some pretty shitty things too that happened and some people that were not so nice and and I think you need to talk about that too and how you work through those issues. And I think you did a really good job of doing that.

SPEAKER_02:

Well I think thanks very much and and uh like I said if you liked it tell your friends but um yeah you're right about the the the leadership aspect of it I just tried to treat everybody fairly and they sent me to some places that I they didn't think I would like but I I did like them and there there's no bad duty stations in the Navy it's all fun.

SPEAKER_00:

I agree with you there is no such thing as getting a crappy set of orders. You can make the best out of every single job you get and and don't let anybody ever tell you otherwise because I have gone to jobs that people said would be terrible for my career or I wouldn't like it or this or that and I ended up loving it. So I I agree with you wholeheartedly the thing is I didn't care about my career.

SPEAKER_02:

I was just happy to be there I I just wanted to go in and you know the the guys from my era we went in to uh in the 80s thinking that we were going to be fighting against the Soviet Union and we just wanted to do our part so I I was just happy to be there. Wherever they sent me is okay with me.

SPEAKER_00:

I love it. Absolutely love it. Well Forrest I appreciate you taking the time to to come on the podcast um if you guys haven't gotten the book it is right here hard fills as as you can get it on Kindle or you can buy it on Amazon. It's a great book it's an easy read too by the way it's in terms of of length it's not a it's not a 500 page novel so it's something I mean I really I read through it in probably three weeks two three weeks it was at the beginning of my my course and it was the book that I profiled we all had to write a read a memoir and so I pro I I re I read yours and then I did some discussion boards on it and it was a really it was a really great read so thank you so much for putting that out.

SPEAKER_02:

Can I ask how you found my book out of all the millions um I don't remember if you reached out to me on LinkedIn or I don't even know it was you it was you you wrote wrote me an email on LinkedIn because I usually delete them but I thought I'll I'll I'll I'll answer this one because your profile said transitioning Navy officer. And I wasn't sure what that meant because the word transitioning has been kind of hijacked by weirdos the last few years. So I answered your email and and then you told me about the school project. But I never I never knew how you heard about it in the first place unless you just did an Amazon search.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah that's a great question because you're not somebody who posts on LinkedIn or or has a never never I don't even know how I got on it.

SPEAKER_02:

I just I I think I got a Google login that that automatically worked on LinkedIn because I I don't use it.

SPEAKER_00:

You know what I'm gonna have to go back to our our first messages on LinkedIn and see where I found your book or how I knew about it or how I even or how I would have known to order it and then I would have liked it as much as I did. And we you and I would have had a lot in common in terms of speaking up speaking out just you not having that typical career path and and and I'm just I'm always I'm always drawn to people like yourself people who have I mean my have my my my uncle you know he's very quirky and and I grew up just really admiring him and he was like the kind of guy that just would never follow the crowd. My husband's the same way doesn't care what society thinks just follows his own moral compass of of what is right and wrong. And so I've just always been a person that that that really gravitates towards towards these these kinds of people. And so I have absolutely no idea how how I how I came across you but when I did and then I start I read probably about 20 pages of the book when I was starting my my last quarter class uh as I started my fall semester and we got an assignment to have to read a memoir and I was already I'd say three or four chapters into it and I was like nope this is going to be the book that's gonna be the memoir. So while everybody else had kind of like you know the typical leadership and thought thought leader and and and these very big high profile bestsellers uh I I I I had your book and I and I would just do discussion boards on on lessons that I took away from the from the book.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. Well I'm I'm I'm I'm glad you liked it and I wish I would have met you while we were on active duty I'm sure we would have got along I think so too.

SPEAKER_00:

I think so too Forrest all right well thank you so much for taking the time to join the Stories of Service podcast I will go full screen but say goodbye to you backstage real quick and uh I'm also very very honored to be your first podcast hopefully not your last very first yep I'm gonna listen to it tomorrow on YouTube. Okay awesome I think you sound really good all right talk to you thanks very much ma'am yeah thank you and thank you all for joining me for my second podcast for the day so we'll pretty big week for podcasting next week I will not be having any shows so I did what I always do and said oh I gotta have more guests this week so I've got uh Juliet Funt uh is coming on Thursday she is a thought leader and somebody who has is been very instrumental in the leadership circles and and coaching and I always love having those people on my podcast when they're willing to come on. And then on Saturday I have Franklin Anus coming on. He is a historian a national guardsman and just a wonderful uh contributor to military history with a book about uh partridge Alan Partridge who was an instructor at the U.S. Marine Academy in the late uh 1800s and so early 1900s in late 1890s early 1900s and he was largely forgotten about for many many years uh and Franklin took it upon himself to write a very detailed novel about his contributions and why a lot of his advice if it had been listened to we may not have been in some of the issues that we see today. So really excited to have him on and have that conversation but with that I will let you all go. Enjoy the rest of your evening and as I always say take care of yourselves take care of each other. Bye bye now