S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
From the little league coach to the former addict helping those still struggling, hear from people from all walks of life how they show up as a vessel for service and drive for transformational change. Hosted by Theresa Carpenter, a 29-year active duty U.S. naval officer who found service was the path to unlocking trauma and unleashing your inner potential.
S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
Green Beret Forced Out for Following His Conscience: The John Frankman Story
What would you do when the order on your desk contradicts the conviction in your gut? We sit down with former Green Beret captain John Frankman to unpack the moment duty collided with conscience during the COVID vaccine mandate—and the ripple effects that followed. From early pressure cues and deployment rules to a surreal JRTC pause where troops were told to decide in the woods, John walks us through the machinery of coercion as he experienced it: shifting policies, career threats, and a system that prized compliance over competence.
John’s path gives the story rare texture. Before Special Forces, he spent four years in Catholic seminary, steeped in philosophy, pastoral care, and daily prayer. That formation shaped his refusal, but it also informed a broader critique of leadership: if irregular warfare selects thinkers who challenge assumptions, why did the culture abandon critical thought at home? We talk lost missions, a missed West Point ethics billet, an exemption that languished for over a year, and a town hall exchange where he pressed senior leaders on EUA versus FDA approvals. The result is a human account of policy made real—how trust erodes, how moral injury forms, and what it takes to step away from a career you love.
We also look forward. John shares cautious optimism about a reinstatement task force, the need for transparent processes, and why accountability matters if the military wants disillusioned veterans to return. Along the way, we step into his inner life—how discipline, tradition, and prayer sustained him—and wrestle with the central question any leader should ask: are we building a force that can win without breaking the people who serve?
If you value straight talk about leadership, ethics, and service in uniform, this one’s for you. Listen, share with a friend who cares about the military’s future, and leave a review to help more people find the show.
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You make it to the highest echelons of the United States Army serving with the esteemed Green Berets. You are in a leadership position, and suddenly you are now forced to choose between the service that you know and love and devoted yourself to protect and defend, or what is in your moral, conscious, and ethical integrity to do. And that's what we're going to talk about today, when you have to make those kinds of decisions. And today I have John Frankman. John, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01:Great. Thanks so much for having me, Teresa. Great to be here.
SPEAKER_02:Well, great to be here as well. I am so happy to have this conversation. I've only done one other conversation about the COVID mandate. And I think for a lot of people, especially if they don't live on X and they see what is going on with in the X space with the COVID mandate advocates, there is not a lot of awareness about why so many people objected to this vaccination. And we really want to get into it and even see if there are some questions from the audience, because I do believe there's a lot of misunderstandings about why people took the stance that they did on this and why people were so convicted to do it. But before we get started, as we always do, welcome to the Stories of Service podcast. I am the host of Stories of Service, Teresa Carpenter. And as we always do to get these things kicked off, here's the introduction from my father, Charlie Pickard.
SPEAKER_00:By showing up as a vessel of service, we not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS Stories of Service. Hosted by Teresa Carpenter, here from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.
SPEAKER_02:John Frankman is a former Green Beret captain from the 7th Special Forces Group who was forced out of the Army in 2023 after refusing the COVID vaccine on moral and religious grounds. But his path to service was anything but ordinary. Before joining the military, he converted to Catholicism and spent four years in seminary discerning the priesthood and chaplains in sea, a journey rooted in faith and conviction. When he eventually chose to serve in uniform, he pushed himself through some of the Army's toughest schools, including Ranger School, Airborne School, Special Forces qualification course, and military free fall. Yet his most defining moment didn't come on the battlefield. It came when he stayed firm in these beliefs, as we mentioned earlier, even at the cost of his career. Today he is a national voice for service members, impacted by the vaccine mandate and a leading advocate for spiritual renewal, moral courage, and principled leadership. And his story is one of faith under fire, resilience, and the cost of conscience. Hello again, John.
SPEAKER_01:Hello.
SPEAKER_02:So first off, as I always ask all my guests, uh, where were you born and raised and why did you decide to join the United States Army?
SPEAKER_01:So if I go through where I was raised, it's going to be a little complex. I was born in Valencia, California, which is a suburb of Los Angeles where my dad and mom were living at the time. Uh, they then moved us to Washington, Indiana, Maryland, and unfortunately split up when I was six uh out in Maryland. For the majority of my life, my dad lived in California, uh in Los Angeles on the West Coast. My mom raised us for the most part in the East Coast, kind of the DC metro area, so lived in Maryland for a time, Northern Virginia for a time, a little bit of boarding school, kind of kind of everything.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:But um, just from earliest memory, I always had an esteem for the military. I remember seeing Halloween costume pictures of myself dressed up as a soldier. My dad, he was a cop. He uh served with the LAPD as a reserve officer for over 20 years, which was absolutely inspirational, that kind of um courage and duty that he showed. And I always was very idealistic. I wanted to use the gifts God gave me to serve the greatest good. And by the time I was 13, my mom married my stepdad, and he was a colonel in the uh Army National Guard. Uh, we were living in Fort Belvoir. We were, I was there during 9-11, which was absolutely insane, uh, just to see the smoke coming from Pentagon. But I just always thought that the military would be a good way to use the the gifts God gave me to serve the greatest good, just the physical capacity, leadership, love for country, just going into that stressful situation. So just something I always uh wanted to do.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Was there a reason why you were always drawn to the hardest jobs in the army? Was that also part of the calculus?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, I don't know if that was planned. I think uh even in army ROTC. So I I went to college. Well, first I went to the prep school, but decided, you know what, I don't know if I want to go to West Point. It just seemed like a dreary place whenever I visited. I'm very grateful for my friends who went and loved it. I chose after a year at West Point Prep that this is great, but I did also want a little bit more of a spiritual kind of focus in college. So being a more recent convert to Catholicism, not quite knowing all the distinctions between kind of many Protestant brands, evangelicals and Catholics, I went to Wheaton College, which is where my mother went to uh school. So spent four years there, did ROTC, but even in ROTC, so coming back to the question, in ROTC, I was not exactly sure what job. I was definitely interested in combat arms. When I did put my top preferences, did put infantry armor, uh, or in the case of EOD. So I I think just what when people think of the military, I just think of the they just think of the military. I I don't know. Like when you think about what does the army do, you think about people on the ground shooting and getting dirty and I don't know, fighting, right? So it's just a natural thing to do, right?
SPEAKER_02:I I feel the same way about the Navy and surface warfare. I mean, when people think of the United States Navy, they think of a surface warfare officer. Yes, we have pilots, yes, we have all these other fun jobs, but the the core and the heart and the soul of the United States Navy is the surface community. I mean, hands down. And so I I think that it's the same thing with with the arm with army, there are certain infantry, uh, screen parades, certain special kinds of forces within each branch that are just the heart and soul of what that branch does. And if you want to have the full experience of the military, then you should probably do something in one of those branches or in one of those specialties. I completely understand that. I was very excited when I got commissioned as a service warfare officer, and I was gonna get a chance to go on a DDG and experience uh small boy life and be part of the SWO community. That was what I really wanted to do until I found my love in public affairs and storytelling, and then that was a whole nother story. But I definitely just I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:What's a DDG? I don't know, so I'm guessing.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, destroyer, a guided missile destroyer.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah. See, there's my army kind of coming out and not knowing that.
SPEAKER_02:But uh Yes. So the Navy has a ton of different types of ships cruisers, destroyers, uh LHAs, LHD, which are amphibious assault ships, and I've served on pretty much every kind of ship that every size. I've served on a DDG, I've served on an amphibious assault ship, and of course on an aircraft carrier. But it is certainly something that if you want to experience the full range of a particular service, then you want to see everything that that service has to offer, then you want to go to the heart and soul of wherever that those those branches are. And in your case, it was the the infantry and green beret and some of those experiences. So tell me, did you deploy your your early years in the army or did you or or where were you stationed?
SPEAKER_01:So I never had any combat deployments, and a lot of that was timing. So I when I when I commissioned in the army in 2011, I immediately went to seminary. So I went on what was called an educational delay. So during college, through ROTC, through taking courses, I continued to pray about, you know, what is it that God wants me to do? Uh so that said, doing the four years of seminary, went into I Bullock Infantry Basic Officer Leadership course. I was already first lieutenant. So that already shortened up the amount of time I would spend in my infantry platoon. So got to my infantry platoon in uh late 2016, was there all of 2017 and missed out on those deployments thinking obviously you don't go to special forces because you don't want to deploy, uh, you go there to get into the action in order to support the mission that's happening. But getting into 7th Special Forces was when I got when I got there in 2020, that was at the height of COVID, and my battalion had the last casualties before the disastrous withdrawal. So there were a couple KIAs that happened with uh 3rd Battalion, 7th Group. And uh after that, we saw kind of a wind down of Afghanistan. So never never had a combat deployment, but I'd been stationed at Fort Benning for right, attended I Bullock, Ranger School, Airborne School. Then I went to Fort Carson for my infantry time. I went to Fort Bragg for the Special Forces qualification course, and then served at Seven Special Forces Group until I left the military and still stay in this area.
SPEAKER_02:So tell me now we're going to transition to what happened around 2020. So tell me the first early indications that this vaccine was going to impact you and what you were feeling at those moments just early on when you heard about the vaccine. What were you thinking?
SPEAKER_01:So I loved my team, and we had a lot of very open discussions, and we knew that a vaccine was being developed because if we remember the 2020 election, Trump was saying he could get the vaccine out quickly. We found out a week after he uh you know lost the election, lost uh that it was it was being developed. And a lot of us were unsure because of how quickly it was being developed. And having spent four years in seminary, I was kind of concerned about the moral and ethical questions around it. I knew that it used aborted fetal cells, so I wasn't exactly sure what I was going to do if and when the shot became available or the shot became mandatory. But kind of the first inklings I had that this is gonna be an issue was maybe January or February of 2021. The shot's available, it's now being given to special operation units and military units. And we had a signup sheet for anyone who wanted to volunteer and get the shot early on. And that text was given out, sent, and it said everybody's name, who was gonna get it, and what time they were gonna get it, just kind of for a schedule for everybody's uh situational awareness. And I saw, oh crap, I'm the only officer in my company who didn't sign up for this. So kind of, and and then you start hearing about the company training meetings, or you attend them, and every company training meeting has we have a hundred of 180 soldiers that are fully vaccinated, we have 20 that have their first shot, we have another COVID vax rodeo on this date. We have this many people who are sick and with COVID, this many who are in quarantine, and it became the metric of how good of an officer you were, how good of a leader you were, what percentage of your men were were vaccinated. So that that was kind of the early inkling I knew this was going to be an issue.
SPEAKER_02:How many people at that point did you have working for you?
SPEAKER_01:So I had uh either 10 or 11. I think we usually had because the special forces detachment, it has 12 individuals, officer, warrant officer, then 10 enlisted. And usually there were maybe one or two positions that weren't full. So yeah, like 10 or 11.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. And the people on your team, were you guys all thinking that you were not going to be vaccinated? Like what was the general consensus of the team at that point?
SPEAKER_01:Everybody was skeptical of it, and no one really wanted it. Uh a lot of them were just concerned about how rapidly it was being developed. They didn't necessarily have the same moral qualms that I had. And for a lot of them, they were concerned that if they were medically injured and this is an emergency use authorized product, there's not going to be any kind of liability. That right now it's an optional thing. So they were worried what happens if I get medically screwed up and supposed to provide for my family. So what I told my guys early on is that as your senior raider, as your team leader, I will neither punish or reward you based on whether you get the shot. I personally want to wait until it's at least mandatory, and I might get some crap for it, but that's that's okay, I'll deal with it. And that's exactly what happened.
SPEAKER_02:Is tell me like what happened? Like what was the crap that you got?
SPEAKER_01:So a lot of it mostly my team sergeant was getting. So the company sergeant major was very big on getting everybody the shot. And he's one of those guys who you'd want in your foxhole next to you out in Afghanistan, but for whatever reason, just stateside, he was all about just getting to yes and doing what leadership wanted him to do. So my team sergeant was maybe in the company Sergeant Major's office two or three times a week for about an hour at a time, just really just harassing and driving him down, trying to get him to get the rest of the team uh the shot. And we were able to hear it uh just from next door. Like the walls were thin enough, and we're just like, this is just ridiculous. And at one point in time, I walked into the company training room and I was called in the office. And I was still trying to play coy, not trying to show my full hand. Uh, there was actually a mission that was coming up that we could have potentially done uh down in Mexico to protect the vice president. Sometimes we do v POTUS details. And because a lot of that company, uh Cico, a lot of them weren't vaccinated. It was possible if we got it, we could have done that mission. I just tried to say, well, they they were saying, hey, if you get the shot, you could potentially do this mission. I responded, Well, I don't know if I can really convince all my guys to do it, just kind of knowing, like, yeah, I don't want to do it either. But Sergeant Major brings me into the office, I think doors open the whole time. He's like, hey, sir, you're effing up, you're effing up your career. You should probably think about leaving the military. Uh if if you you're ruining your reputation by not by not doing this, you know, what are you what is holding you off? If you guys lose a mission, I will kick guys out of the company, I will take guys off the team, I will throw send them to unwanted uh school assignments, and this is not a threat, this is a promise. And this conversation went on for like an hour and a half. I wrote a memorandum for record afterwards, just for my own uh personal memory and multiple times because I was digging into the policy. Uh, I by that point, I think I was bothering the legal assistant so much. So there's a lawyer that's there to assist service members. I first contacted this lawyer when there was a transgender major in the battalion. And I was like, all right, hold up. I'm not comfortable calling this uh man, ma'am. So what am I supposed to do? But maintain that contact. And I just knew that we could neither be punished or rewarded based on whether we get the shot, and there can't be undue command pressure. So I kept bringing up you can't punish or reward us based on this, and there can't be undue pressure. Yet we just see uh even if you're not given like direct pressure, it's it's the policies that were set up in order to make people fall in line.
SPEAKER_02:It's the implicit pressure that they they they they do because they know sometimes they can't put something on paper or they can't harass you explicitly, they will do behind the scenes things using groupthink or exclusion or other ways to harass you and corral you into what it is that their objective is. And what was really sad about this is that there was evidence that this was not approved by the Federal Drug Administration, that the the only vaccine available at that time was a vaccine that was under experimental use only, which meant that members of the military had informed consent, which means they could refuse it legally. But for some reason, there was some kind of a a memo or there was some sort of a finagling that happened on the lawyer side that made it so that they somehow were able to justify so we aren't even in that point yet.
SPEAKER_01:So we're what I'm talking about, this is uh March, April of 2021. The mandate didn't go in through until August of 2021. So what a lot of people um just what a lot of people don't understand is that the pressure for me, the pressure was much greater for me before the mandate ever went through.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:At that point, they were doing everything they could to give you the shot, and you didn't have recourse to a religious exemption or a medical exemption to try to at least have that line of paperwork defending you and making your your position clear. Although many people understood that my team was very clear about not getting the shot. So before this ever went through, so here are some of the policy examples for instance. If you came into close contact with someone, you the people who were vaccinated could quarantine for a week. Other people would quarantine for two weeks. Uh, if you were vaccinated, you do not have to wear a mask. If you were unvaccinated, you were supposed to wear a mask in all public places. So there's this kind of pressure going on. And the big pinnacle for me that was difficult was first special forces command made it a deployment requirement that everyone who deployed had to have the COVID shot. So this was before the August uh 2021 mandate went out. We were supposed to go to El Salvador, which never had a uh vaccine requirement, but even before the mandate went out, he was vaccinated, and that's because he came to the team, or maybe it was two. Yeah. So we had a had a guy or two or something, and they all had come to the team later on uh who had the shot. And we were so we were jumping out of planes at 14,000 feet at nighttime with oxygen equipment. We were out in Arizona. This policy comes down, and I have to talk to the company commander about what are we gonna do because of this change. So he calls and he says, Hey, John, I know your team doesn't want to get the shot, but this policy came down where you need to get the shot in order to deploy. So, what is it gonna be? Is your team gonna get the shot or are you gonna have to lose the mission? And I had already talked to the guys about it, and I told him, Well, sir, I only have one person who is willing to get the shot, therefore, you're gonna have to take the mission. Okay, unless you're willing to accept medical immunity. And at that point, I've gone to Lab Corps to check my immunity. Other members of my team detachment had already done so, and other guys has already contracted it. So trying to give every reasonable reason I could to not lose this mission. You go through two years of training that you can get out the door. When Afghanistan going and leaving, this is what we were fighting for. We were fighting for JSATs. So just like six-week trips overseas, training with a partner force. This would have been my first time out the door without it. It's like, what kind of experience do you have to move forward? So I was told that they're not willing to accept that uh risk. And it just blew my mind because they were through sending us out of planes at nighttime oxygen equipment, but they're not willing to send us to another country without a COVID shot.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I think also what complicated things, because I remember I went to El Salvador during this period as well, and I believe it was for this enhanced stability mission that was like going to distract from the border crisis. It was like kind of a strange made-up mission, in my opinion, that was just there so that we wouldn't see what was really happening on the border, which by the way, we'll be talking about this Thursday on the Stories of Service podcast. This should be a very exciting show with someone who was actually on the border and doing that mission. But I was uh sent to El Salvador for this other mission, which is really just doing the same things that the State Department was already doing and now just had a bunch of other extra people uh doing those same things. But the thing that I think also complicated this was the fact that these other countries wouldn't work with you or wouldn't work with us because they were all very, very COVID uh promoted. Yeah, they but they and they wouldn't do anything unless they knew that the troops that they were coming to work with were also vaccinated. So it did not to play devil's advocate, but it did make it really difficult to deploy if you didn't have the vaccination. But it doesn't answer the questions and the ethical and moral issues about why we, in the first place, from a policy standpoint, from a Department of Defense-wide policy standpoint, why we agreed to institute a vaccination that was not scientifically tested to truly eradicate COVID from low-risk populations? Now, I have a question for you. Do you feel that in the high-risk populations, like people who already had a many, many other problems and the things that we used to hear about in the nursing homes and the elderly, do you believe that was actually a thing?
SPEAKER_01:That they should have gotten the shot?
SPEAKER_02:No, do you believe do you believe that those were really why these people were dying?
SPEAKER_01:No, I I've always wondered that being killed by being put on ventilators and given remdesivir, and that there was no protocol. I mean, if you remember early on in COVID, what was what were you told to do? You have COVID, hang out, try to get better, when it's bad enough, go to the hospital. There was never, and there were so many different uh treatments that were getting passed around online. Uh, I think it was Dr. Zevzlenko had his protocol, others had their protocol of just what drugs you could take in order to uh or or what zinc, ivermectin, hydroxy, other things.
SPEAKER_02:There were drugs available for these people who were in high-risk populations, but because we wanted to push the vaccination above all, unfortunately, there may be people that could still be alive today if if we had listened to the science, but there was no science. And that was what was also very frustrating. And I noticed this firsthand, John. I would go on the internet and just try to read about other alternatives, alternative uh treatments for COVID, and you couldn't find it. It was it was buried or it was it was censored on the internet. And when I started to see the censoring that they were doing about COVID, that was also a key indicator that there must be something that we're not being told or they're hiding something. If if this if you just can't read up on it and educate yourself on some of these other alternative treatments.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely, 100%. Uh we we saw it through just a lot of propaganda going on everywhere. It was the main thing, how many COVID deaths there are, how safe the vaccine is. Uh, but there were these alternative media sources that you could look into. You could go to Epic Times, you could go to, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I'm trying to think of others that were sure, but you could you could read on things, you could go listen to a podcast from Joe Rogan or somewhere, and you would hear about all these other ways that people were dealing with COVID. And then you thought to yourself, well, wait a minute, this might not just what we're being told might not be true. And it was it was a very difficult time for so many of us because we did feel like our careers were on the line. Like we, if we wanted to stay in the Navy, I mean, that's where I was. I was I was still, I'm gonna stay in, I'm gonna keep going, I'm gonna make 06. I mean, that that was what I thought was gonna happen. And I I thought, well, if I don't get the shot, I'm I'm I'm going, I'm not gonna lose my career. And at the time I I wasn't I wasn't as educated as still probably not that educated, but I didn't think that I had any other choice. And so let's go back to your story. So you are now at this point where you guys aren't gonna be able to go on any of these missions, so then what happens?
SPEAKER_01:Afterwards, we were put in some unwanted training, uh, training exercises. So, given a company validation exercise where my team sergeant and I, we were concerned that this might be an excuse to get us fired if we don't perform well. Uh, fortunately, the other team kind of crapped the bed and we did really well. So they they wouldn't really have justification for that. I just the other team, I don't know what they were doing. Um, but uh anyway, we go from there to uh now that was July of 21. We go to August of 21. In August of 21, the mandate comes out really early on. One of my soldiers in Echo, he figures out, which is a communication sergeant, figures out that hey, this isn't FD approved, this is EUA. Comorati received FD approval, Pfizer did not. Is Comorati actually being offered to us at this point? And we're able to kind of get by August, not getting the shot. We go to this training exercise in September. It's called the Joint Readiness Training Center, and it's in Fort Polk, Louisiana. It involves thousands and thousands of soldiers. We're there, you're in the woods for two weeks. As a special forces detachment, we're in a that kind of situation, a uh multi-domain, low-intensity conflict situation. We are behind enemy lines, we are just kind of in the woods, it really sucks. And you have about 12-hour break in between just to go over how well you're doing to get back to planning without having to be worried about being harassed by the enemy. During this 12-hour break, in this huge exercise, very costly, they deem it so important to get us vaccinated that they send a major out to the woods. Now, we didn't go there with our company. We lost the mission, and a different team was going to take our mission. So we we traded places we went in this exercise, and we're basically told you have 72 hours to get the to figure out what you're gonna do, whether you're gonna get the shot, to talk to your medical provider. If not, there's gonna be follow-on counselings, there's gonna be adverse paperwork. I I get off the phone, I talk to, well, I get out of that meeting, talk to the major. The major who who did the counseling, he basically admits that, yeah, I understand, I see what's going on. I knew I didn't want it. If I didn't get it, I would be rated 36 of 36 uh by my uh senior raider. So basically, okay, in order to climb the ladder, you're you basically just told me you're to climb the ladder, you're just gonna get the shot. I I understand the concern, but I think we need to be smart about it and maybe you figure out the things you're willing to die for. But that takes place. I call my company commander and I just tell him, hey sir, why is my team getting counseled in the middle of the woods? How are we supposed to make a lifelong lifetime decision, career decision without the proper medical, religious, or legal resources? How am I supposed to show guys that training to fight and whiz win wars is more important than administrative bullshit when this is happening? And we're just not gonna get training value if this is held over our heads. And make that call, wait a little bit, maybe 20 minutes later, call back. Hey, we're gonna push this to in October when you get back. You'll have three days after you get back, we'll we'll do the counselings then. Which that infuriated me too, because it meant that no one in my leadership was thinking about the concerns of my men, their well-being, and also just the mission. What it's supposed to be the mission, the men and me. But there was if there were concern about the mission, why not allow guys to train in this super expensive, very helpful exercise? So that that's basically that within the woods until we got back to uh Eggland Air Force Base for the actual counselings.
SPEAKER_02:So did they stop the mission because you guys wouldn't get like did they the mission being training? Did they stop the training because of the fact that you guys said no time out? We need access to resources and and guidance and and legal, and and did do they just stop all the valuable training because of the fact that you so they they stopped the training, it's it's built into the exercise.
SPEAKER_01:So you have uh mid row, which is like the mid you know, stopping of exercises. So you'll you'll freeze the exercise, that's across the entire training area. And that's so that every unit can get feedback on how they're doing rather than just letting the unit do well or fail throughout the whole thing. It's like, hey, we're halfway through, let's talk about what we're doing well, what we're not doing well, so that we can improve training and you can get better. However, for us, it was hey, you guys need to figure out if you're gonna get the shot within 72 hours. And we were performing extremely well. Uh, very, I mean, the infill was nuts. When we got we were supposed to take out this uh IAD system, so this um I don't know, basically air defense system early on, and we had to break some brush. And I mean, I remember getting done with that exercise or that mission and just sweating ammonium because I'm burning muscle. I mean, that's something where with the military, I remember regularly falling asleep walking and exerting myself so hard that I'm I'm burning muscle. But we're doing that, we're conducting other missions, we're doing well, but then this happens and it just is totally demoralizing.
SPEAKER_02:It is.
SPEAKER_01:Soldiers just realize that their leaders don't have their back. They're out to make red boxes yellow and yellow boxes green so that they can look better to leadership. And that's basically what we thought. And as a special forces green beret, this was especially appalling to me. I just thought that we were supposed to think critically, we're selected based on our intellect, we're selected to think outside the box. It's called irregular warfare, so not necessarily traditional thinking. And if we're supposed to use psychological operations to overthrow other countries, how are we not able to see the psychological operations that are happening in our own backyard? It just drove me nuts.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that blows my mind. It really does. And I wish that I had had friends like yourself during this period because if I had been surrounded by other people who were refusing the shot, I'm I might have been more apt to do it myself. I didn't have that, wasn't the culture, and that wasn't the people I was around, and it wasn't something that I'll be quite frank, I didn't educate myself on. As well as I should have, because really there are a lot of people who've been damaged by it. And the people who have not been injured by the vaccine should consider themselves lucky because there are a lot of people who have now been injured by the vaccine. And that's a whole nother aspect of this shot that people are now impacted from for the rest of their lives. So you get back from the training, and what happens next?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so we all get counseled. Um, we have to talk to our major, our company commander, who's down in Honduras at the time, because that the rest of the battalions are companies for deployed. And all of my guys basically said, Hey, there's no FDA approved shot. How are we able to sit to do this? So this is on a Tuesday. At that point, he's just like, I don't know. I don't know. He just he just really doesn't know the legality of it. Sure. The next day I turn my religious exemption in. We all meet with the group medics to discuss medical exemptions, safety. And we're bringing up Dr. Teresa Long, that she is the whistleblower. We're bringing up Doc Pete Chambers, and the doctor there at base is just shrugging his shoulders, like, I don't know, and saying, trying to say that she's weird or odd. Like, how is that a scientific statement? It's just so unprofessional, too. But we're just trying to ask about the legality, and they're saying they're they're not lawyers. And we had tried to go to the JAG before and bring up the concern. And unfortunately, JAGs are meant to get commanders to yes and not as much to counsel them on what they should or shouldn't do. So this was just very much a betrayal of the medical community, the legal community, and just leadership in general. And that Thursday, for every service member of mine, every soldier of mine who had not yet gotten the shot, they were met with the battalion commander, command sergeant major, the JAG, uh, a medic, and the chaplain. So you're either leaving that meeting with a general officer memorandum of reprimand, which is a serious strike in your career, can really mess your career up, or with the shot. So my guys either got the shot or they got the shot that week.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, Gomar will ruin your career. It's it's the same thing in the Navy as a letter of reprimand. Once you have that, you're not moving it forward. So is that what you you got?
SPEAKER_01:No, I put an exemption in. So the rest of my story, and I understand we got a lot a lot to get to, but uh the rest of my story basically I put my exemption in, and as my team was going to have another trip overseas, and since I was not deployable, so everyone who had an exemption pending, they couldn't deploy, they couldn't uh travel TDI, TDY, or travel within the states or PCS or move on to future duty assignments. I was selected to get a master's in philosophy and to teach philosophy and ethics at West Point. So that spring is when I was supposed to be picking out the school, figuring out where I'm going to move to, but I couldn't PCS. So I had to give that up. I lost, that would have been a dream career opportunity. I had studied two years as Catholics, we do two years of philosophy and four years of thought theology in seminary. So to really just finish up the philosophy and then to teach that in ethics would have been absolutely amazing. It seems like they needed more of it. But basically, yeah, team time got cut short. My exemption was never actually answered. It was just dropped in January of 2023. And by August of 2022, I decided I wasn't going to uh stay in. There was a three star two-star that came. Uh, General Roberson came to Seventh Curb, had a town hall meeting, and I, a friend of mine, Nate Crankfield, who has told me that on my tombstone, it needs to say if if John, if I don't say something, who will? Um, so just thinking about it, a town hall is basically you just ask whatever question you want. So I just raised my hand and say, Hey sir, I'm John Frankman. Uh, I'm over in, or Captain Frankman over in uh 3.7, working as the AS3, so the assistant uh operations officer. Two weeks ago, the CDC changed his guidance, said there's no distinction between how the vaccinated and the unvaccinated should be treated. That said, there's about 30 of us who have not gotten the shot. We can't deploy TDY or PCS. I've also had my exemption pending since last October and have not heard anything. That said, is there any talk about getting rid of the mandate and when are we gonna hear about our exemptions?
SPEAKER_02:And he I bet a pin, I bet it felt like a pin had dropped in the room. Nobody asks those kind of questions in a town hall. By the way, if you guys don't know about what these town halls really are, like we call them like commander's call or whatever, they're basically hand fed. I mean, I can tell you that they used to take little note cards and hand feed the questions to to the sailors, and then the sailors would just read off of a piece of paper whatever hand fed question they were being told to ask. So this is this is like totally off script here that you would even ask a question like that. So tell me what happens.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, one of my prouder moments, but he uh he says that uh he asked me if I had heard of Novovax, and I immediately retort, yes, sir, that uses boarded fetal cells too. And he he thought he had a gotcha. Uh, and then he basically kind of froze and was like, Well, I'm not gonna argue with you about that one, but if the army tells you to do something, you really should do it. And we're trying to meet you halfway by giving you this option, so I don't want to kick anybody out, but I will. And at that point, I'm like, I'm just done. I I think I I hired a lawyer and talked to him. And for whatever reason, I wanted to get fired. I wanted to just wait and have that to for the sake of a lawsuit. Looking at it now with the army's policy, if I had waited, well, I guess I wouldn't have gotten kicked out, but had that happened, I'd be considered involuntarily separated instead of voluntarily separated. Although hopefully people in this uh interview can understand that a lot of what happened to me was not voluntary.
SPEAKER_02:Um, you were you were at a place where you thought if you were forced out, there were going or involuntarily separated, there would be benefits and there would be other things that you might not be able to retain.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, involuntarily separated. They did not get uh they got a general discharge that most of them didn't get honorable discharges, they couldn't take advantage of uh the transition programs and other things of that nature. It affects their VA benefits. So yeah, I'm I definitely made the call. It's like, do you wait to get kicked out or do you just leave on your own terms? And I was like, at this point, I'm leaving on my own terms.
SPEAKER_02:So I think Brad Miller was in that same category. He he did the exact same thing, he was voluntarily, quote unquote voluntarily separated, because if he hadn't voluntarily did it, then he would have to be involuntarily separated, which would have done the same thing as you would get a lower level discharge.
SPEAKER_01:So well, Brad took a lot of courage. I mean, leaving at 19 years and three months, you know, that was uh pretty bold, and it's a huge statement, and definitely a lot of respect for him on that.
SPEAKER_02:I agree, but I agree. He was he was a wonderful interview, and and I highly encourage people. In fact, I will link to it in in this uh episode.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, people can check it out. Listen to two two uh interviews uh by Teresa on the COVID Vax mandate. Listen to uh myself and Brad Miller. But if you only listen one, listen to Brad. He's a lot more eloquent than me. Uh spicy on some different things, but he he's good people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he he is a little spicy, but but I but I like the spicy people. I'm I I would say that I'm I'm somewhat spicy myself, so maybe I'm I'm I'm a little biased in the spicy category. But so you made the decision to get out, and then what?
SPEAKER_01:I had one more meeting before leaving. That's that's noteworthy. That was my exit interview with the Fulbert Colonel, and it's something that every captain leaving has to do. I go in there, he asks why I'm leaving. I basically tell him everything that had happened to myself and my team up until that point, and asked him what would he do if he were in my situation there. And he's like, Okay, I get it. And then I asked him, Do you think the order was lawful? He's like, Yes. I asked, Do you think it do you know it required an FDA-approved shot to be lawful? He said, I'm not a doctor, at which point I said, Well, your doctor is a bunch of yes, men useless. Uh, I asked if he'd heard of Nuremberg Code and um if he's doing anything to examine uh vax injuries within the the unit. And to that, I was more or less called an extremist. I was told that too much ideology is a problem. Asked if I had heard of the crusades, which I said, I think that's a little bit off topic, but uh the blood of the Christians, blood of the martyrs is what spread Christianity, whereas the sword spread Islam. I I think that's a little off. I was asked if I believed in selfless service, kind of being accused of not following selfless service. And I just told him, like, no, I I did what I followed my conscience, did what I thought I should do, and asked what I would tell a Christian or a Catholic who who got the shot. I said, Well, I'd ask you them if they thought that it was worth it to get a shot that's involved in the unborn, the murder of the unborn child, the continued theft of its body parts for a disease that has a 99.99% chance of survival, and if they had it on their conscience, talk to a good priest, potentially go to confession. So at that point, leave the army in July of 2023, and uh yeah, life just keeps getting staying crazy.
SPEAKER_02:I I mean, yeah, I then after you got out, you decided to try to run for office, didn't you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that that happened a little down the road. So I I got out, went on a retreat, rode it to op-ed, and um that just got traction. Where I'm now going up to the hill trying to talk to congressmen about ways they can help fix the situation. And it seemed like a lot of them didn't have an understanding. And um yeah, through through all of that, I just kind of thought, man, if if these guys can't do their jobs, maybe I need to come up here and try to do it to try to get some stuff done. So when Matt Gates dropped out, when Matt Gates was selected for attorney general, nominated for that position, I was living in his district, still am, and thought I should run for Congress. So the next day I launched my campaign. Uh, it was a crazy 10 days uh fundraising, um, which was mostly like emails and texts, and going to different meetings, doing interviews, and uh just seeing social media just go nuts. Like, you know, I love it. Doubling Twitter followers, and I was able to raise 100K in uh a week, which is pretty wild. Um great. That was actually averaged a$24 donation, so it was like 4,300 people or something like that. So, like super grassroots, it was pretty wild. Um, and then all the all the wind was taken out of my sales when when Trump endorsed uh another candidate, which hey, politics is politics, don't hate the player, hit the game.
SPEAKER_02:Um But you did it, I mean you put your name out there and you and you did the work and you set up a campaign and and you have that experience now. I think that's so valuable. Right. Like I was telling you earlier, I'm in a program now that helps veterans run run for office. And the fact that you even tried is is is remarkable. I mean, how many I bet you it's less than one percent of the population, like a 0.00000005%, even even think to try to do it. So my you know, and who knows, maybe in the future you'll you'll try again one day. You just you never know what where life takes us. So I think that's great that that you you made that call and that you tried to do that and said, Okay, if if if not me, then who? I I always say that to myself when I'm speaking up about something like tonight on the female naval officers Facebook group I've I've yeah, rallying against and and saying, you know, and and saying, like, don't bully, please don't be a bully. No, no, no bullying in in my world. And if you're gonna be a bully, I'm gonna I'm gonna call you out for being a bully. So don't do it because it's it's wrong. Um, but yeah, I mean I think it's amazing that you you you stood on your principles, you stood on the values that you knew were what made sense for your religion, for your faith, and for the things that you believed, and not only that, for what was safe and for what was in the best interest of our health. And I think that there's just so few people that have the courage uh to do that. So after the the the the uh the the the failed election bid, uh where where what where did life take you next?
SPEAKER_01:So not a failure. I think I did the greatest good I could with the the least damage.
SPEAKER_02:So yes. I mean, also also I never think of any of these things as real failures because they're all such just terrific learning experiences, and if you don't try to do them, then you don't learn from them, and then you don't get the chance to do them again or or or they'll help you in some other way in the future. So so that happens, and then what what what what comes for you next?
SPEAKER_01:Not a whole lot going on since then. Uh I've just been doing some part-time contracting, so it it's nice a way to stay connected to the military, uh able to travel to Germany for it, so to support the joint multinational readiness center when they have exercises. Um, so that's that's a fun job, and then just staying active politically within the community on uh things.
SPEAKER_02:So I see you everywhere, John. I mean, I see you on on a lot of the conservative news outlets because the conservatives have been the one to take up this cause, which to me, this is non-political. This is this shouldn't be a nonpartisan cause. I mean, this is a health issue, this is anyone who has a faith issue, it shouldn't have to be one faith or the other faith. So I I think it's amazing that you just continue to be a part of this movement. You're one of the leading voices in the in the crowd that's been really outspoken on the COVID mandate. And that takes a lot of courage to do that, to put yourself out there in the public eye. Believe me, I know. I mean, people people aren't always so nice, and they and they they sometimes like to come after you. And so you have to be have a pretty thick skin uh to withstand some of that criticism. Speaking of which, have you have you faced some criticism over your stance?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, I I've seen it online a little bit. I think especially the pictures uh with Matt Gates, those always draw some attention. Um, but some of the difficult ones too are within family. Uh and I think that a lot of people don't understand that the ideology that's happening right now, it it can really destroy and hurt families. Where if I think for for the right, often our religion is our religion. It's what we believe about God, it's what we believe about the afterlife. But for a lot of people in the left, their worldview is so rooted in getting to just the present. They don't have eternity, they have to get here now. And it's done by following whatever principles and ideologies are going on. Um, and it can just create such a rift, such damage. And we saw with the Charlie Kirk shooting how that kind of radicalization can come about. And then with people who cheered for that later on, uh, it's just a total desensitation of what the moral law, the natural law should lead us to and how we respect each other. There's just a complete ripping apart of reality on a lot of folks. So that can be a difficult thing, just when you do have friends, family who who have that kind of different political position. Um, and these are things that shouldn't be political, they should just be common sense that a man is a man, a woman's a woman, we shouldn't trans kids, we shouldn't kill kids. That starts at a at the moment of conception, uh, marriage being between a man and a woman for the sake of procreation. But we've gotten away from a lot of that.
SPEAKER_02:We have, we have, and we've gotten away from even being able to have respectful and and dignified conversations. That's one of the things I I loved about Charlie Kirk. I mean, he had interviews with people who identified as transgender, and they were polite and respectful conversations. And I think that it's really unfortunate that when you have a dissenting view, you are shunned, you are pushed out, you are maligned. Um, I can tell you this firsthand. And from somebody who definitely was more left of center and who went over more towards the right of center, and I still think I fall somewhere on a on a like we all do, we all fall somewhere on a spectrum of beliefs and and and not none of us are are the same, and none of us should be the same. We should create spaces where we can have these kinds of dialogues, but especially like the transgender issue. Oh gosh, don't get me started. But I've tried to say what my views are on that issue. And if I God forbid say that a man is a man and a woman is a woman, and that I don't believe that transgender members should people who identify as such have a have a place in the United States Armed Forces. I I will get thrown out, I will get canceled, uh everything, all because yes, that is that is my belief that it is not compatible with with military service and the conditions of at which we the austere living locations, the the surgeries, the lifelong medical care that is required. I mean, I just take I don't even take it from a religious standpoint, I just take it from more of a practicality standpoint. But for years, uh we couldn't say how we felt about that issue, because if we did, we would be labeled as anti-trans and we hate all transgender people, which is not. I love all people and I want to respect the dignity of life for everyone. But I I have my beliefs about where I believe this ideology comes from or this thought that you're not the gender that you were born with, and and my belief has never changed. I I had that belief even when I first heard about this, but I've felt silenced into being able to talk about it. And it's only been since Trump's taken office that I've felt comfortable being able to say how I feel about that issue. And I think that's ridiculous that I can't say in a respectful environment that, hey, I value you, I love you, I love all people, I don't think anything bad should happen to you. But do I believe that this is something grounded in science? No, I don't. And that's okay for me to think that.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And I think in those positions where it's uncomfortable, but there's the truth to be told, that's where we have to speak out. And a lot of people might agree with you, and encourage is a contagious thing. So we have that need, we have the First Amendment. Even if we didn't, hopefully we'd be able to be courageous and to say the truth. Our God made our minds, our intellects to know the truth, and it's something that has to be spoken, that has to be shared.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I agree. So tell me a little bit about the priesthood. I got a little, I got a little bit of a taste for that because I was reading some of your stuff. So, did you actually train to become a priest?
SPEAKER_01:I was in training to become a priest. So I converted to Catholicism when I was in high school. And while in high school, I went to mass at the school and the Catholic school, and a priest was there and said, I sat where you sat. Maybe one day you will be up here as a priest. And that kind of planted the seed for me to consider uh a religious vocation, vocation to priesthood, vocation calling. And I went to seminary after college. My intent was to be a chaplain, uh, priest first and foremost, but uh serving as a chaplain in the army, a lot of inspiration from Father Elmo Kapan, who is a World War a uh Korean War um KIA. So he was a POW KIA, did amazing things. But with the Catholic seminary, it's two years of philosophy, four years of theology, went into the formation, absolutely amazing experience. You're there, you are taking uh undergrad courses, some grad courses. You're also praying a whole hour a day of just mental prayer. So that's just you sitting, talking to God, spiritual reading, going to mass, reading the psalms five days, five times a day, praying the psalms five times a day, praying a rosary, and you're probably averaging like two or three hours of prayer a day. It's it's pretty substantial. And you're having a five-day retreat at the start of every some uh semester, and it's it's rooted. You have the the intellectual formation, which is the classes, you have the spiritual formation, the prayer, human formation, just how do you live as a human being, develop as a man, and then pastoral formation. So we were out there feeding the poor on the weekends, uh helping at nursing homes. I was able to work at Walter Reed and visit uh different wounded service members there. So an absolutely amazing informative experience, especially a lot of the kind of philosophical and theological knowledge that you receive. So my hope as a congressman would have been and potentially would be to take all of that theological, philosophical, religious formation, take that up to DC along with the special forces, military, that formation. And I think that would just be a good combo to figure out what's the right thing to do and how do we lead people to get there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you have such a neat mix of different experiences and expertise. I was actually raised Catholic, so that's why I think I'm I have a special interest in in that. And I've always admired somebody who takes the decision to either become a nun or a priest because it's such a it's such a sacrifice to God and to your community at whole and to your faith. I mean, it's just it really is such a remarkable decision that one makes that I have a lot of admiration for people who make it because it's also from what I understand, there's not as many people these days who decide to to go into those vocations because of the fact that it is so I think probably restrictive because you aren't going to be able to have the traditional family that so many have.
SPEAKER_01:I'll push back a little bit um and actually say that we have Eastern Rite Catholics who are able to get married and they suffer from vocations as well. So imagine being a priest being allowed to get married, they still have troubles. A lot of the reason we're suffering from vocations is after Vatican II, a lot of Catholic church teaching has been watered down. Uh, what you see, the mass when it was in Latin was very reverent, very beautiful, and we've seen a decline in vocations to the priesthood, to religious life, less marriages, less baptisms, just kind of a weakening of faith. And I think if you look at who if I ask you the question, who's more Catholic? John Paul II or Pope Francis, you know, what are what are you gonna think, right? It's about the Pope, but can we say that a little bit of quality has gone down there? Uh, and what you notice is that I I so last weekend I was out in um Oklahoma and I did the Three Hearts pilgrimage. That is a 36-mile hike to a monastery. Every day, a lot of mass is being celebrated, a lot of priests there, huge families, and these were orders. Uh, so Benedictine monks, super austere lifestyle. I don't think they ever eat meat, super skinny from fasting all the time, working, praying. They are, they have to turn down people who want to join them. Similarly, this other uh order, the priestly fraternity of St. Peter, that only says Latin Mass, very restrictive uh in their theological formation, their priestly formation. You're living in the middle of Lincoln, Nebraska, and you can only go into town twice a week. I mean, how restrictive is that, right? You want to go somewhere, you can go to Lincoln. Okay. Uh, but these people are that's where vocations are flourishing. But when you see a watering down of the faith, if you're going to give up your life, if you're going to give your life to God through celibacy, you're going to want to do it for an actual fight. It's kind of like, why are people drawn to special forces to or Marines? They're doing it because of this sacrifice, because of the mission that they're being called to. And Jesus Christ tells us in scripture that no one who's given up father or mother or wife or brothers or sisters, that they're going to receive a hundredfold in this life and more in the world to come. So these people are some of the happiest people in the world who I'm friends with, blessed to be friends with many. So um, you know, I'll just I'll just push back.
SPEAKER_02:You have you have a really interesting perspective. I I no, I appreciate the pushback. I want the pushback. I mean, that is the heart and soul of why I do the show is I don't want to always be right. And I have a husband who disagrees with me every day. I love it. So no, I appreciate that. And you're right that that I correct what I said because people want to be challenged and they want to be disciplined. And what we've seen, sadly, and I'll even bring it full circle back to the my friends on the left, is I I believe we've seen an erosion of standards, we've seen an erosion of discipline, we've seen an erosion of the family unit, we've seen all these things that were very strong and formidable and taught certain very important life skills and the community. We've seen a lot of those things break down. And when those things break down, that's when we're seeing some of these other um horrible things, like we say with the Charlie Kirk shooting and people celebrating it and all these horrible things. And and and I believe that that has a lot to do with it. So it's it's wonderful that you you kind of remind me, John, of like an old soul. Like you you have a lot of uh beliefs and and values that I would think would would bestow somebody who's much older than you are.
SPEAKER_01:So it's kind of fun, so young souls.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, no, no, it's great to talk to you. Like, I I just you you have a perspective I haven't I haven't been exposed to, and uh I really appreciate that. Now, where as we're winding down the call, where where can people find out more information about you or read more about your work?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so they can find me on Twitter, on uh or X, Instagram, my website's johnfrankman.com, my X handle, IG handle are John FrankmanFL. Uh, I usually tell folks before you follow me on social media, follow Jesus Christ. If you still want to follow me afterward, go for it. Um, so you can you can see what's going on there. And I I think uh to just kind of touch on where the shop mandate stuff is now, because I think we I think it'd be good to kind of bring that up. There was a meeting. Um so the reinstatement process has not been that solid. Um, there have only been a few folks who've been brought back in so far of the 8,600 kicked out, the tens of thousands who, such as myself, have voluntarily separated. But it seems as though there is some glimmer of hope. Um, Colonel Kevin Bourne has been reinstated and he's supposed to be leading the task force to reinstate folks and to work on that process. So I am uh cautiously optimistic that this is going to go well. I know he means well. I know some people who are serving in the political administration, the Trump administration, do mean well. So we need to continue to pray, encourage those folks. And if people can help spread the message of what needs to happen through my ex-account, through ex-accounts of others who are similarly talking about this issue, that would be greatly appreciated.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Because we do remember, I want to say it was maybe, I don't know exactly, about a month ago, maybe a month and a half ago, they did have the big task force, not task force, but I'm sorry, a meeting where they brought together a lot of the people who have been advocating on this issue and really heard you guys out and and listened to some of the issues and the concerns. So I I really do hope that they make this right. I mean, this was one of the campaign promises that Trump had. I mean, you might remember he told you personally. I mean, you were yeah, tell tell tell the tell our audience that story real quick.
SPEAKER_01:I guess I guess we've skipped that one. So in October of uh last year, I went to a Veterans Town Hall, was able to go there because I'd been involved with Veterans for Trump, and I was told, hey, if you go there, you might get to ask him a question. I wasn't sure if that would happen, but get on stage, uh, submit my question before they distill it down to a note card, and I'm up. So I asked President Trump, Good evening, Mr. President. My name is John Franklin. I was a Special Forces Green Gray who was forced out for not giving the COVID shot. The vaccine mandate had has kicked out thousands of service members and thousands don't want to serve now, and DEI is destroying the military. What we would do to repair the military and hold leaders accountable. And Trump says that there should have never been a mandate. We lost a lot of people. He asked me if I left, which I said yes. Uh, and he asked if I ever got the shot, which I said no, which uh, according to the MAGA base, people uh cheered, roared with applause, which was pretty fun. And then he asked if I would come back. And I told him, as long as there's accountability, potentially. Because one of the difficulties right now is these people who were who were treated terribly left the military, this institution that they had really entrusted their lives to, this thing that's greater than themselves, this new family, in many ways, they were destroyed by that and their leaders and can't trust them. So I responded that if there's accountability potentially and Trump in good old Trump fashion said, Oh, yeah, there will be accountability, is right, we'll fire their asses. So he wants us to come back in with back pay, that uh he wants accountability, he wants to fire their asses. And there have been some generals let go, but uh by and large, there needs to be uh many more asses fired. So I hope that as we get this task force in there, more asses are fired, and uh we have the names, we have the the receipts. So uh we'll see and continue to pray. And it's a giant bureaucracy, politics sucks, politics is super lame. I don't know why I want to do it, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's frustrating. We were just having our class meeting, and the gentleman who served in the main uh legislature was talking about all the different ways in which they kill bills and they find ways to stop appropriation committees, will write things in, or they'll put in writers that like now ruin and water down what it was that the original bill was supposed to say. And it's just a mess. It is, but that doesn't mean we don't stop trying, and and that doesn't mean we don't stop caring, and that doesn't mean we don't have hope, and we don't work with amazing coalitions and teams of people that can get shit done. That that's how I look at it. Um, I'm blessed through the podcast community that I've met some amazing individuals, folks like yourself, and I feel very fortunate that I get to have these kinds of interviews and get to talk about some of these issues and do my part to spread awareness. Awareness on the issues that need to be discussed. So I really do appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast to tell us where the administration stands with the COVID vaccine, how we are encouraged that there have been some measures that they are listening and that they are doing what they can to get the folks that wish to come back into the military, back into service without the red tape and without all the different uh loopholes. I mean, I'm sorry, hoops that they're having to jump through. I'm I've definitely been following Jordan Carr very, very closely, as well as many others who have been saying that there have not it's not been an easy process to get folks back in who want to serve. And it's still change.
SPEAKER_01:Still needs to be fixed. So hopefully we get the right people in there, the right influence and messaging to make it happen.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Awesome. Anything else that uh I did not cover down on that you wanted to say to the audience before we get off the call?
SPEAKER_01:Oh gosh. Uh just continue. I I think the most important thing is to have a deep relationship with God, uh, to regularly talk to him, kind of that mental, spiritual prayer. And that's that's just communicating with him. That's just looking at the face of Jesus every day. And we often think about action, what can we be doing? What could we be doing? The most important thing we can do is to maintain contact with him, to fix ourselves. And from that daily interaction, you're gonna have a better sense of what he's calling you to do. And that's where you'll find your identity, your relationship with him, and your mission. So just kind of keep that daily contact with God. And if you're not sure, go from there and do what you think he wants you to do.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. I love it. Beautiful advice. Well, thank you, John. I'm gonna say goodbye to you backstage as I go full screen, but really appreciate you taking the time to come visit us on the Stories of Service podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for having me, Teresa. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. All right, guys, that's a wrap for tonight. Um, I do have another podcast early tomorrow morning, actually. Uh at 8:30 uh CST, or actually 9 CST. I will be having a dear friend of mine that I served with uh when I was during that um time I was in El Salvador. I served with her at the Joint Enabling Capabilities Command, and she did a very important mission where she was working with some of the unaccompanied minors at the border in 2021. And some of her experiences uh during that time period, I think, will blow you away. They did me when uh she was telling me a little more about that mission and what she was called to do. So please tune in. Um, if you can't catch the actual uh live episode, we will, of course, always have the replay and the audio will be extracted later. And then, of course, there'll be a bunch of reels and and vlogs. You guys know how I do it. But anyway, hope you're enjoying the rest of your evening. As I always say, to close out these calls. Please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and talk to y'all later. Bye bye now.