S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
From the little league coach to the former addict helping those still struggling, hear from people from all walks of life how they show up as a vessel for service and drive for transformational change. Hosted by Theresa Carpenter, a 29-year active duty U.S. naval officer who found service was the path to unlocking trauma and unleashing your inner potential.
S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
Veteran discrimination? | Former Navy SEAL Bill Brown | S.O.S. #224
The aftermath of national tragedy provides a somber backdrop as Navy SEAL veteran Bill Brown joins us to discuss his fight for veteran equality – a battle that extends from courtrooms to state legislatures and strikes at the heart of how America treats those who served.
Bill's journey began at prestigious law firm McCarter & English, where his outspoken conservative views and veteran advocacy allegedly made him a target. While parts of his discrimination lawsuit continue moving forward under federal protections, a New Jersey judge delivered a critical message: comprehensive workplace protection for veterans requires legislative action.
This revelation sparked Bill's current mission – amending New Jersey's Law Against Discrimination to include veterans as a protected class. The irony isn't lost on him: "They have these protected classes... based on haircuts. You won't give men and women who serve this country those same rights?" His frustration deepened when two promising bills stalled despite clearing committee approval.
The contrast is stark. While state laws shield numerous groups from workplace discrimination, veterans – who write "a blank check to put everything on the line" – lack comparable safeguards. This gap proves particularly harmful as veterans already face unique challenges reintegrating into civilian life, from rebuilding professional networks to combating stereotypes about their service.
Our conversation shifts to the New York City Navy SEAL Swim, now in its seventh year, which exemplifies how veterans continue serving long after removing the uniform. The event honors fallen teammates and 9/11 victims while supporting the Navy SEAL Foundation. It brings together diverse communities – SEALs, first responders, survivors, and supporters – in a powerful demonstration of unity.
As we reflect on tragedy and resilience on this September 11th, Bill's advocacy reminds us that supporting veterans means more than symbolic gestures – it requires ensuring they receive the same protections afforded to other Americans. Join us as we explore discrimination law, patriotic service, and one SEAL's refusal to stand down when fighting for his brothers and sisters in arms.
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Good evening everybody and welcome to another episode of the Stories of Service podcast, and tonight I told you guys about this show, said we were going to be talking to Bill Brown, which we definitely are going to be doing tonight as you see him on the split screen. But before we get started, I think it might be appropriate to recognize what has been going on in our country in the last couple days. It really didn't just start yesterday. It started, I believe, with the incident it was in North Carolina with the uh subway, uh stabbing. And then, just a few couple of days later, right after that, uh, we're mourning the loss of Charlie Kirk who, uh, I believe in many others do is comparable to a modern day Martin Luther King Jr, and I think history will show that. And at this point it's a very somber moment and I didn't want to do anything else other than to start the call sharing some of my thoughts about that. But before I do so, bill, did you have anything that you wanted to share on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's two tragedies and they both symbolize very, very concerning developments in our nation. One is the safety of our people and I think there's no greater responsibility to our government than the safety of our people. Uh, responsibility to our government than the safety of our people. And to see that poor woman just brutally stabbed to death for no reason whatsoever, which was clearly a racist, just horrible attack. And and then that signifies a complete lapse in the judicial system and, to be sincere with some of our judges and their requirements, looks like they, to be sincere, dei judges that were unqualified for those positions, just letting violent criminals out and repeatedly violent criminals out to prey on the people. And it's horrible. And I think it's even more horrible to see some of the hatred on social media celebrating this disgusting act against humanity.
Speaker 1:I agree. I think that's one of the worst parts about this too is that not only have we seen these disgusting acts play out online, even we see it further reverberated in some of the things that people are saying, and I don't stand for that. I know Bill doesn't stand for that. You guys might have seen that myself and Chase Spears have been calling out fellow members of the United States military who are doing that. We did just see that P Hagseth and Sean Parnell put out on X that they will not be tolerating that type of behavior from our military members. But we shouldn't be tolerating that behavior from anybody not from our citizens, not from anyone.
Speaker 1:This is a moment where we need to come together as a nation and we need to be united, no matter what side of the aisle that you fall under. And we need to be united no matter what side of the aisle that you fall under, and that is really what this is about in my mind. Is that? What are we going to do to come together? I don't know if you saw, Bill, that Mitch Aguilar. He is going to be organizing, in the next three days, a march in Norfolk, Virginia. So he's already putting that out. So he's already putting that out and I will be sharing, if I see there's any other cities that are organizing marches at this point, because I think that is a wonderful show of unity. Again, no matter what side of the aisle that you fall under, we're all Americans and we're all in this together.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad Mitch is taking making it organized, organizing patriots to make a political stand. That makes me happy. I'm a little upset with Mitch on some other level, so it's really glad to see him do that. I'm just being honest.
Speaker 1:I understand.
Speaker 2:I'm very glad that he's doing that. Regarding Charlie Kirk, now look, if you don't have freedom of expressing on our academic universities and the ability to debate the important issues of our day, like, what freedoms do we really have? And to have an individual who wasn't intellectual and went to campuses across our nation and engaged in open political debate and he gave everybody the chance to share their perspective he did. To have someone like that killed on a college campus, a public execution. It's adverse to everything democracy stands for. And to see professors and students in academia cheer on that slaughter of somebody who engaged in public debate, it is a disgrace. I agree, it's a disgrace and I got to be sincere. Anyone, anyone who's cheering the death, the violent deaths, of that poor woman on a subway, or just intellectual conservative debater, they are not my friends. In my opinion, they're not good Americans, I agree. And the scariest part is to see how much of it is on social media. And I can tell you, I tell you this, you and I are outspoken, I and I'll be sincere, tell you, I tell you this, you and I are outspoken I if and I'll be sincere with you I received an in-depth, in-depth security threat assessment from the FBI, ncis, nypd, papd, port Authority and the NJSP regarding the New York City seal swim and there were some threats that they had to assess.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's too important for good men and women not to stand up and take a stand, but do it, hold the moral high ground. That's what we did in DC when we advocated for Pete Hegseth and that's what I'm leading. It's kind of funny. I'm leading a march here on the 20th to try to get the New Jersey law against discrimination amended to include veterans as one of those protected classes, and I'm glad to see MITS lead and make a political statement in Virginia. We need more of us, but it comes with risk, and I will tell you the truth.
Speaker 2:If something were to ever happen to me, if I were to get killed like Charlie, you know what Our nation's future is worth it. And without more good women standing up, we're in trouble. And I can when I look at some of these social media responses and they're it's it's not one or two, it's like hundreds of thousands. And so we're in trouble and so we have to speak up. And it's so funny because it's not funny, it's scary, because what Charlie Kirk was doing is he was engaging the youth, the professional and educated youth of our nation in debate and a lot of institutions where, basically, if they don't signal kind of far left agenda, their grades could be at stake. And so I'm outraged, I'm concerned that it's going to deter others from speaking up, especially in our academic universities, where it's probably needed the most. But I can promise you this that I will continue to stand up.
Speaker 1:Myself as well, bill, and that's why we're're here tonight is to continue to stand up. I know this was a longer introduction than most, but I knew that we had to get right into this issue. I do see that Darren Lopez is on the call. He says that the Naval Academy just had an active shooter. I have don't know if that's verified or not verified, but we will continue to be watching all of these kinds of stories, and this is why we have these kinds of shows is because we are going to discuss these issues and we're going to call out these nefarious actors that do these behaviors. But before we get started, welcome to the Stories of Service podcast. Ordinary people who do extraordinary work. I am the host of the Stories of Service podcast. To start us off, as we always do, is an intro from my father, charlie Pickard.
Speaker 3:From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents. We are inspiring others by showing up as a vessel of service. We not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS. Stories of Service hosted by Teresa Carpenter. Hear from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.
Speaker 1:And the subject of the call tonight is going to be an update on Bill's ongoing legal battle with McCarter and English, where he raised concerns. He was on my show just a couple of months ago about unequal pay and veteran inclusion in DEI efforts and we discussed his lawsuit and we'll summarize that briefly to catch you guys up to speed if you missed that call. But a New Jersey judge recently trimmed parts of that lawsuit but allowed key claims tied to the Uniformed Services, Employment and Reemployment Rights Act to move forward. However, there were parts of that lawsuit that he was advised by the judge to take to the New Jersey state legislature to fight for veteran inclusion as a protected class of citizens. So today we're going to talk about discrimination law, why it's needed, what is a protected class in both the state and federal side and why New Jersey's most recent attempts to pass stronger state protections somehow failed late last year and what this means for future legislation.
Speaker 1:And then after that we're going to look into what happened, because we always want to end on a good and a positive note, and so we'll also talk about the New York City Navy SEAL swim, what it was like this year, what was different about it. It has been going on now for the last seven years, and how this event continues to honor fallen teammates and how it supports the Navy SEAL Foundation and the next generation of warriors and their families. And it's an athlete's time to have this discussion, considering that today is 9-11 and the Navy SEAL swim a big milestone. A big part of that event is to honor those who lost their lives on September 11th. So today we're going to be talking about resilience, advocacy and carrying that mission forward long after military service ends. So, to start us off, Bill, catch us up a little bit about where we last left off, when you had filed the lawsuit on our last call. And well, first off, for the people that don't know, why did you file a lawsuit against your old law firm?
Speaker 2:Well, I think one of the things that McCarter and Inglis did in my opinion to me is I was a commercial litigator and I was in a business litigation bankruptcy collections practice group and they became upset, to be sincere, and a lot in my opinion. There's many partners at the firm that are directly tied to Governor Phil Murphy's administration, either previous or ongoing, and in my opinion, the firm went very woke it's really the right way to say it and they were, in my opinion, a lot of their post, the firm's post itself was promoting a very woke type of ideology that I disagreed with. They were very avid advocates, supporters of BLM and, in my opinion, blm was a domestic terrorist group and resulted in 24 deaths and actually, I think, $2 billion worth of damage. I believe in equity and equality, for sure, but that wasn't it, and they promoted a very, in my opinion, a lot of anti-Trump type of perspective. A lot of their posts, at least in their legal assessments of the Trump indictments in my opinion, were anti-Trump, indictments, in my opinion, were anti-Trump and my political perspective was absolutely different than the mainstream of the equity partners and senior partners at the firm, 100%, I think, a lot of the reasons for their sudden change or not sudden change, but making a very, in my opinion, public political stance. That was distinctly different in the past. I think has to do with how far left New York itself has gone and they've received considerable income from the New York legal market.
Speaker 2:So because I had such a large following on social media, so because I had such a large following on social media, I think for them they tried to cancel me.
Speaker 2:First they tried to do it subtly and then they basically decided to cut me loose. The reason I decided to speak up about it is because, now that I represent a lot of veterans, I see that this is not an isolated incident and one of the things that I've seen it and I'll be sincere, if you're a white conservative male veteran, and you were and I've had a couple of these cases and some of them I can't go public about it, but we're about to because I'm engaged in some pretty serious settlement negotiations these are some global corporations, big-name corporations, a repetitive pattern where these DEI committees push out and really isolate some of these Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, especially if you're a white male, some of these Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, especially if you're a white male, and the way some of these individuals were treated were extremely horrible, and if the settlement negotiations don't work out, trust me, I'll be asking you to interview some of my clients in it.
Speaker 1:I will be happy to do so, because I think the part that people are also missing is that they sort of did like a death by a thousand cuts in your lawsuit. There was probably a good 15 or 20 different specific incidences where they work to push you out whether it be not agreeing to do a veteran diversity event, even though they had all these other diversity events. I mean, that's maybe a minor one to personalizing every single one of your social media posts and saying it was about them when it was really teresa.
Speaker 2:I just want to. I I want to do my best number one to give my opinion as correctly and accurately as I can now. I requested to be on their DEI committee and one of the reasons why I requested that is because it's 9-11 today. You know the 24th anniversary. I was a CEO on 9-11. They sent out a bunch of emails to DEI committee about many, many events, a lot of, in my opinion, very left progressive events.
Speaker 2:Now, I'm not an exclusionist. I don't have any animosity to gays or lesbians. I just don't. I don't care what consenting adults do, what their sexual preference is, I just don't. I believe in liberty and I just don't.
Speaker 2:But to be sincere with you, when I asked why they weren't sending out emails to honor those on 9-11, especially when the firm used to have an office in one of the Twin Towers and has an office in Manhattan, I was actually basically chastised by a judge, Natalie S Watson, basically chastised by a judge, Natalie S Watson. She's a Superior Court judge now, but she was a prominent LGBTQIA plus advocate at the firm and one of the things, in my opinion, in some of her email traffic which had the DE&I committee copied on was basically, in my opinion, trying to act like I was a bigot for basically asking about this on one of the emails they had promoting LGBTQIA plus stuff, Right, and my response was you're off base. Number one. There was a pride march around Cooper River Lake in South Jersey a couple years ago and to show my stand for inequality, I swam parallel next to the thing as a SEAL.
Speaker 2:So hundreds of these, you know, young, gay and lesbians. I'm not gay, you know. To be honest, I love women. I'm not transgender. I love my dick and I love this, love this country. I'm a patriot. I believe our country is beautiful, but I gotta tell you they hate me for it and that just there's no other way to say they hate me and I think the sad part about the whole dei uh events were is that you weren't saying don't do their events.
Speaker 1:You weren't saying those events are wrong.
Speaker 2:You were saying no, let's include these other events that are patriotic well, well, I was saying hey, if you're not going to, if you're going to forget to send out an email on 9-11, maybe you should have a guy like me on your diversity committee. Because guess what, I was the only Iraq veteran at the whole firm that I knew of. Right, I damn sure was the only SEAL. I didn't see too many veterans walking around in those hallways, I can tell you that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I will encourage my audience to listen to the podcast with yourself and your lawyer, chris Alessandro. I thought that was a really good description of all these things. The diversity committee was just one of many things, as we've talked about before. The fact that they it's especially towards the end giving you a child molestation cases, even though you were mostly a bankruptcy.
Speaker 2:I'll hate them to the day I die for that.
Speaker 1:Yep so they can.
Speaker 2:They can buckle up because they got it. They got it. They got a leader in a seal community in case they haven't figured it out yet who hates their fucking guts for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you get to a judge and the judge keeps parts of the lawsuit but then drops other parts and says this is a legislative remedy, not a legal remedy, and so that's what the next step is, and that's what we're going to talk about tonight, and that's what you next step is and that's what we're going to talk about tonight, and that's what you are now working. You are working to have veterans is considered a protected class by the state. Now, for those people who don't understand protected classes and what they are, can you give the? Can you explain what exactly it means when someone is in a protected class?
Speaker 2:it means when someone is in a protected class. Sure, so there's in a tri-state area. There's Connecticut, pa, new York and New Jersey. They all have similar type of statutes, right, and New York and PA it's called the Human Rights Act, and actually in Connecticut as well. And in these and they're all liberal states, by the way in these states they have these protected classes and, to be sincere, it's predominantly what you would imagine, similar to when I went to Rutgers.
Speaker 2:Who got the scholarships, all the scholarships that I saw at Rutgers when I were, to be honest, if you were gay, if you were lesbian, if you were a minority, black, hispanic, that's where a lot of all these scholarships want to. That's why, when I was at Rutgers, myself and a couple other veterans started the first scholarship there, it was called the Veterans for Education Scholarship. Then one of my members got killed in Afghanistan. I put his name on it the Jeremy Cain Scholarship. Then one of my members got killed in Afghanistan. I put his name on it, the Jeremy Cain Scholarship. Now that I'm out of Rutgers and they're very woke and hate me, they took my name the Veterans for Education part off and they kept the Jeremy Cain name on there.
Speaker 1:But they at least still have the scholarship. So that's still a legacy.
Speaker 2:They still have it. Likely it goes to liberal, woke veterans and not guys like myself who love this country and outspoken. Unfortunately, that's one of the things that happens. You get the benefits if you bend the knee to the ideology. But a lot of these protected classes are like based on some of it is is.
Speaker 2:I have no issues, I'm against discrimination completely, but there you know it. First it was sex, age, religion, and then it started getting into different things like lgbtqia plus special class, transgender special class, domestic special class, gender identity, identity special class, and then it goes into like even now. The next, the newest amendment to the law in the New Jersey side was discrimination against your hairstyle is considered a special class, a sexual orientation is considered a special class, like look, look, there's a distinction between all the other special classes here. The distinction is we want the war for our country or we serve their country right. We put our uniform on and we basically written a blank check that we're going to put everything on the line for our country, right, and so one of the things that happens is we're away serving our country across the country, across the world. When we come back, we don't have the same connections to the local state or your local county, municipality, that other individuals who never put on a uniform and left home. So we're kind of behind a power curve. We have to rebuild contacts with our family, with our business, we have to re-up an education. So really behind the power curve, so really behind the power curve.
Speaker 2:And now, to be sincere, there is serious negative biases towards veterans. Number one, because such a small percentage that have served. I can tell you, when I was at McCarter in English I had a partner ask me if I ever killed anybody Like out of the blue, like I barely knew their guy killed anybody like out of the blue, like I barely knew their guy. I've had other partners send me new york times articles where it portrays vet iraq veterans as indiscriminate killers and savages. Like to have the audacity to send me that those type and even it's absolutely offensive.
Speaker 1:It's offensive and it's discriminatory and it it goes up, it smacks against everything that they talk about with the protected class. But the one thing I also want to center in on is, by being a protected class, this is a legal protection against harm. So this means that if your employer harms you, you have rights.
Speaker 2:You have rights and basically Bill, even though he was harmed has no rights because the veterans are not a protected class.
Speaker 2:The reason why my complaint wasn't totally dismissed is because of something called the Uniformed Service Employment and Redepointment Rights Act of 1994. In short form it's called IRSA and that's a federal statute Now that protects veterans against employer discrimination based on their service. That's the reason why my complaint wasn't totally knocked out. Now there's some of the counts in there that are absolutely based that the discrimination I faced was absolutely rooted in my service. They're going to lose there. That's good for me, but the New Jersey law against discrimination and some of these other acts in PA in New York that I'm hoping that I can turn next is Human Rights Act. It's basically they're actually enhanced type of protections.
Speaker 2:Now, one of the things that I having there's a reason why the gay and lesbian advocacy and lobbying group, which is extremely, extremely powerful one of the most powerful and effective lobbyist groups in our time.
Speaker 2:To be sincere with you, one of the reasons why they made sure in new jersey that transgender is a protected class, lgbtqia plus is a protected class. Domestic partnership is a protected class. Gender, gender identity as a protected class is because they wanted to make absolutely and even domestic partnership as a protected class. They wanted to make sure, absolutely that employers knew do not mess with us. It's like in legal terms, like a snake that has very vibrant red colors and in the law, like the law of nature, it's like it's as a poisonous state, do not mess with it. What kind of reminds me of the, the old revolutionaries, don't tread on us type of signal. Well, that's what these, uh, to be a protected class, that's what it does. It would basically to be sincere with you, if I was, if veterans were a protected class in New Jersey, I'd probably have some nice settlement offers about right now.
Speaker 2:But, that's not the case.
Speaker 1:But can you clarify for me the USERA? So USERA, from my understanding when I looked it up, it protects veterans, but it's more about if the veteran goes on deployment. I could be wrong about that.
Speaker 2:Well, it has two parts, and the first kind of part is, yes, protecting service active duty service members when they're deployed.
Speaker 1:Correct, okay.
Speaker 2:And in New Jersey actually, the New Jersey LID does protect active duty service members, like New Jersey National Guard members. Sure, they face a lot of discrimination because they have to deploy and then their job goes away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and all of a sudden things happen, right, right. So that's a big part of IRSA, but another part is guess what. It also applies to prior service veterans, and that's why my case is still alive, which is very good for me in a way, because I cannot wait for discovery, discovery. I have no doubt these very woke and pompous attorneys with huge egos were very loose on their comms regarding me, and I imagine it's similar to some of the hatred that we recently saw with what happened to that poor Ukrainian woman and what happened to when Charlie Kirk was killed and how those nasty people were celebrating those atrocities Because, to be sincere, some of their treatment to me was so vile. I can only imagine what their internal comms were like. Right, and I cannot wait to get it because I'm assured I will be looking for new defendants.
Speaker 1:Well, I honestly think that once this gets going, as you say, this will establish your practice and your craft of law in a direction that really just hasn't been addressed, which is veteran discrimination. Like there really isn't anyone that I've talked to in the four years that I've had the podcast that has addressed veteran discrimination in the workplace, and I think that it's time we talk about it, because it's something that, as we know, when we're only the 1%, especially in communities where there's not a large military presence, there's probably quite a number of veterans who are discriminated against but don't understand that they don't have any rights because they don't know what their state law even has. Your state bill almost did pass a law late last year, and I think there was a House bill and a Senate bill, and then what happened?
Speaker 2:Tell us a little bit more about that. It's so interesting that you would bring that up. So during the highlight there's two bills. They have an Assembly bill it's A5048, and a New Jersey Senate, bill S3800. And both of those bills would amend the New Jersey law against discrimination. And guess what they would do?
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:They would amend it so veterans would be a protected class, which is a beautiful thing thing. But all of a sudden, and just in the same time, when the New Jersey Law Journal put out in December 23, 2024, that my article about my discrimination as a veteran and New Jersey's most powerful and oldest law firm was the number one, read article. The same time, all of a sudden, that bill that made it through the Senate Military and Veterans Affairs Committee, that made it through the Assembly Military Veterans Affairs Committee, doesn't get put onto a floor for a vote. And now you look at how McCarter and Inglis has a very powerful lobbying firm with strong ties to Governor Phil Murphy's administration, and I mean very strong ties to the point where he's campaigned there.
Speaker 2:When I was at the Newark office, when I was there, literally campaigned at the firm. Now, all of a sudden, the bill is not going anywhere and I think it is a disgrace because, to be sincere with you, there's a legal type of concept called ex post facto. So that means even if the law were to become into play, it can't help my case per se. That's OK, because this is just bigger than Bill Brown. This is about protecting, just like the gay and lesbian lobby and what they were able to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was very powerful. I want to do the same thing in New Jersey and then I want to do the same thing in New York and PA and Connecticut, in a tri-state area which is also a very liberal, in my opinion, woke, firm, firm and, to be sincere, I'm going to be honest with anybody. Everybody out there have no doubt that the big law firms in New York, new Jersey, pa, connecticut are extremely woke like. Have no doubt. Now, in my opinion, one of the things that happened to me is I was, because I was an outspoken veteran and because my perspective was different, they wanted to get rid of me. And you look at a lot of you, look at academia. Don't tell me there wasn't a political purge in ac, in academia. There was a look at the entertainment industry it's all over.
Speaker 1:It's all over. It's in the military sadly mean. There's people like myself who definitely feel that I was discriminated against based on my ideology. I have examples which I shared on Chase's podcast yesterday. So this is happening. Discrimination based on other things definitely happens, and a discrimination based on being a veteran has got to stop. And again, someone even said the best thing for someone to have is a job. It isn't just a coincidence that we have so many unemployed and homeless veterans out there, and so this is something that we veterans definitely need. If we are going to die for our country, if we are going to step up and serve, the least we ask for is to have the same protections that some of these other groups are getting in the workforce. So this is what your fight is about. What is next for you in this fight? Where?
Speaker 2:are you taking it? Well, right now I'm actually. I'm calling out leadership, out leadership. I'm calling out the state senator, the state president, Nicholas Kateri, for not putting the bill up on the floor for a vote and to do right by veterans, the same thing with the assembly speaker, craig Coughlin. Shame on both of you. Shame on you. We want the war for this country and you won't even put bills to give us the same rights as individuals with haircuts, to the same rights as protected classes, individuals discriminated against because of haircuts. You won't get men and women who serve this country. You won't even put those bills on a floor for a vote.
Speaker 2:shame on you yep and shame and shame on any law firm that, that anybody that had anything to do with stepping on that bill. God, I hope I find out. God, I hope I find out, because I will not be silent.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and we'll be continuing to track this on the, on the podcast and through my social media. I want to see any time you do an event or anything that you're doing to support, to to bring awareness on this parade, on the 20th, ok, and you know, governor Phil Murphy is on his way out the door.
Speaker 2:But the state Senate, the Senate president, nicholas Kateri, he's not an assembly speaker, greg Coughlin he's not. And you know, I was told don't say anything. I was told that's not the way to work. Oh, hell, no. If you're going to fuck veterans, I'm a CEO, I'm going to fuck you.
Speaker 1:You know, it's really funny, my one of my school assignments I was having to read a letter from Birmingham from Martin Luther King, when he's in in in jail, and I I'll send it to you after this call. But basically he he's told the same thing. He's told not to go to Birmingham. He's told to stand down. He's told there's all these other peaceful you know not non-violent but there's other ways to not do a march, not do any kind of a demonstration. And he's like, no, we've tried that, we've gone down that road. So your story on this issue kind of reminds me of that I studied MLK and I studied him intensely.
Speaker 2:I've studied a lot of political advocates and revolutionaries, to be sincere, and even terrorists, extremely well and I tried to find out like what were the common denominators that make them very effective. You know, I can tell you, I've had some veteran leaders in New Jersey and they say no, this isn't the way. I said well, kissing ass isn't working anymore.
Speaker 2:Right, I was like this is straight bullshit that they stepped on this bill and I said I'm not being quiet about it. And so what I love when I think, mlk, I'm a here's the thing I am a very high rated chess player. Like I'm top two percent of all rated chess players. I am not a dumb guy. I just didn't happen to be a leader in the CL community and make my way through a liberal law school and a liberal law firm for no reason. Like you're about to find out, if you haven't seen everything else I've done in the past, you're about to find out. And you know what, if they take me out like Charlie Kirk, all right, take me out At least. I'd be a coward to everything I believe in if I didn't step up.
Speaker 2:But one of the things I love about MLK and this is what I did with our advocacy for Pete Hegseth for Secretary of War, which is historic as we held the moral high ground and one of the things because when I like MLK, when he went to Birmingham, he knew how those racist cops were going to overreact and he used technology in his favor because he brought that in the cameras of everybody else. It was a brilliant chess move. That's what we did in DC. We held the moral high ground. All the all the agitators got removed in the back. We held the moral high ground in our parade. They had video cameras the whole time.
Speaker 2:We held the moral high ground. Even with the New York City Seals, women, we're running through Manhattan with American flags. We're holding the moral high ground and it's the same thing here in my march and my advocacy to do right by veterans, a hundred percent. I'm going to call it the way it is, but we'll hold the moral high ground.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it and this is a great time. You know, towards the end of the call to transition to the New York City Seal Swim, just a couple of weeks ago, or three weeks ago, I think we, we, we finished, you finished that up and tell me a little bit about what made this year's Navy, uh, new York city Navy seal swim a little bit different, cause you've been doing this for seven years, but I think that this year you hit a lot of new milestones. And while you're talking, I'm going to go ahead and pull up some images, uh, on my desktop that you, that I, put together, and we'll, we'll, you can talk, and then we'll, we'll also show the images at the same time.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a you know there's a lot of things I'm kind of proud of with this swim, like their first year, we stood up for Eddie Gallagher and after he was acquitted and you talk about justice, right the NCIS was literally tapping into his comms with his attorney, my boss, Tim Parlatori, and they thought it was logistically impossible. We still did it. Then the following year, you had the whole issue with COVID.
Speaker 2:Oh, you had the defund police movement and we had police and we had NYPD, papd and and and JSPD on our shorts to show our love for them. Then we had COVID. We ran. Everybody else closed down during COVID we didn't. And then we literally went to hospitals, one in Cooper in South Jersey, cooper University Hospital, then Jersey City Medical Center, where we did push up salutes for those doctors and nurses stepping up during COVID because we wanted to, you know, give them, give them love and do the right thing. Then the following year we had we had, you know, all that stuff going on where they were shutting down.
Speaker 2:Other a lot of free speech on social media. Other, a lot of free speech on social media. Thank god, thank god for elon musk, because he, without him, we would have never known about that poor woman who was slaughtered on that subway, on that light rail, because they try to keep that stuff so no one knows about about it and they and they stifled so many of us, including myself on social media and a lot of other CEOs, and so we had a real opportunity to use the media to speak up about that and uh, no, can you see the pictures?
Speaker 1:I'm having a little harder time with my team at all. You can't. Okay, Sorry, guys, I thought I I was going to share them this way, but unfortunately I I, when I share the screen, I'm I'm not able to technology. All right, but keep going.
Speaker 2:But so one of the you know one of the things you learn about Martin Luther King, you learn about, like Gandhi, as they used events to send the matches, and that's what swim does. It sends a positive patriotic message of unity. One of the other things we did, too, is to the patriotic message of unity. One of the other things we did, too, is I was a first responder to two suicide bombings. I've seen the horrors of jihadism and I've lost plenty of friends. It's no joke. In my opinion, it's a cancer to society and it's a cancer to advancement of humanity, and so I'm an advocate, a strong advocate, against it, and I will be to the day I die. And so I've seen it and people who haven't seen it. I hope you never do.
Speaker 1:But I think that's what's so powerful about the SEAL swim is that it's really so much all at the same time. It's about fellowship, it's about love of your country, it's about standing up and stand, speaking out against these atrocious acts of terrorism. It there's so many counter narratives or stories that you incorporated into that swim. It was just incredible. I mean, from the person that parachuted in to the park that day to the people from the Ronald McDonald house and the gold star moms. I mean there was just all these different events within the event.
Speaker 1:Um, all the things that you did to take the the the guys, out to the New York stock exchange and then you took them to, I think, the nine 11 memorial there. There was just so many different events packed into those two or three days. The New York Stock Exchange, and then you took them to, I think, the 9-11 Memorial. There was just so many different events packed into those two or three days and then each team had events. So I was part of, you know, volunteer with 92 Romeo, and so Rob Sweetman, he took people out and he did a wellness event.
Speaker 1:So there was it was just really interesting the way the event is put together and anybody can get something from it, whether it be you're there as a volunteer, whether you're there as a family member supporting somebody, whether you're a swimmer, and that's what I really appreciated about this event and the fact that the entire city comes together to support it. You know, that's just incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, comes together to support it. You know, that's just incredible. Yeah, I was at Rescue 2 in Brooklyn FDNY Firehouse. There they lost about 23 firefighters on 9-11. And one of the speakers this year, james Dowdell, whose father was a firefighter, kevin Dowdell, on 9-11, that was killed.
Speaker 2:We, you know, we let him speak, you know, to honor his family's legacy and what they've done for our country in the city of New York. We also had a 9-11 survivor, mykyla Cruz I saw her today as well who was on a 95th floor and she literally has a bracelet of everybody she worked with that was killed and it's like over 60 names that she works, and so we had her speak, so she got to share her story. Then we also had Ron DeFrancisco. He was a 9-11 survivor, and then we had Robert O'Neill, who killed bin Laden, and I thought, and they all spoke at the World Trade Center, you know, and I thought it was it and I thought it was a beautiful thing because it it showed, you know, it showed this because I was. I was a SEAL on 9-11.
Speaker 2:I and a lot of my other brothers, the older SEALs, we went to war after that and to hear the sides of the survivors and those that lost loved ones on 9-11, it's really good medicine for us and I think it's really good medicine for survivors and the firefighters to speak and those at the NYPD PAPD, and I can tell you they give me so much love, like last week I was at I was at rescue six, a firehouse, and I was hanging out with those guys tomorrow myself and Joe Palermo, who's an Iraq Ranger and Afghanistan Ranger. He's also an engineer. We're climbing up the Brooklyn bridge to the very top with a bunch of NYPD ESU guys, so like he's going to be at my place at 530 tomorrow. That's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know what, that's really what. And then, like I had a, matt Graham is helping me with that. He's with the ESU unit. Him and his brother swim with us every year. Him and his brother swim with us every year. And then also, like my buddy, lance Festone, him and his son swam this year. And then what a great family tradition.
Speaker 2:And today he sent me a link where him and his son were basically did this big ceremony and teaching New Jersey students about what happened on 9-11, about loving our country, about how beautiful our country is, about how much we've done. Think about how much we have done. There's a reason why so many millions of people are coming here. I love this country, I love the beautiful people like you it brings together. So you know I'm fighting my hey, here's the truth.
Speaker 2:I'm in a couple different fronts and I represent some veterans that have been through some real hell, like real hell for sure. I know like I'm at the paulatory law group and we look out for veterans and police officers and firefighters and a lot of service members have no doubt and, uh, I can tell you, uh, you know there's stuff going on that you don't know about that. You know, woke uh, woke legal field out there. You know, trying to get dirt on our clients so they can put it out, to get to the to the web and leak it, and so it. And so we're in a we're in a serious, serious type of fight here. But I believe that we're in the right fight and I think the way we're doing it now, talking about it, doing what Charlie Kirk did, being real and talking that's the way to fix it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Like. I want people to see my face. I want them to see how I tell a story. I want them to understand why I have the beliefs that I do. If they don't agree with me, I'm okay with that. If you support transgender, okay. I don't necessarily care what consenting adults do in their spare time. I have feelings about it when it comes to military readiness and I want to have those discussions. I'm not saying those are bad people. I'm not saying I'm hating on those people. I'm saying let's have a discussion and let's bring people together.
Speaker 1:And the thing that just blows my mind is that there's so many keyboard warriors out there that like to say the rudest and the most disrespectful things on the internet. And I guarantee you, bill, I guarantee it, if they saw me in person, they wouldn't say any of that stuff. If they had a conversation with me, they wouldn't. You know, we would just talk about it and we would be polite to one another. But for some reason they get on that keyboard and it's like she wants to say all these mean things and I'm like why? I'm not being mean to you, I'm being polite, I'm being respectful. I'm taking an example from Charlie Kirk. I'm taking the example from Martin Luther King Jr. I'm doing the things that we're supposed to do when we advocate.
Speaker 1:I am expressing my views peacefully and it just blows my mind. I mean you should have seen like I was thinking I was telling you yesterday the texts that or the emails that Chase gets. They're way worse than anything that I get, and he is nothing but kind and polite and respectful Every single time he expresses a view. Yes, it's emotional, yes, he has his facts, but it's along that same line of Charlie Kirk and MLK and yourself. It's the same way. I mean, there was nothing, bill, you've ever said on the internet in any of your comments that were mean or were personal attacks. No, they were always about the issues, and that's what we need to get back to. We need to get back to teaching people how to talk about hard issues, because that's how we solve problems is by being willing to engage in these discussions and figure out a win-win for people who have different views.
Speaker 2:You know a couple things. I'm no saint, I'm a seal. I'll beat someone's fucking ass. That's the truth. If you spit on me, stand the fuck by. If you're going to burn a flag in front of me, stand the fuck by, because I'll beat your fucking ass. I'm no pacifist, I'm a seal. I'll bring the heat as far as the open dialogue, and that's that's what democracy is supposed to be about. Like right, like okay, here's your ideas, here's mine. Let the, let the public weigh it out, right, you know?
Speaker 2:Like Mitch organizing a march, that's a cool thing. I'm to be honest with you. I'm a little pissed off about him about some things, but that's a good thing he's doing over there. I'm having a march over here, like hold them all high ground, and even you know one of the ways they tried to did one of the things I loved about Charlie Kirk, or I loved about JD Vance or even Elon Musk, especially when I work for a lot of pompous attorneys that had this really uh, inflated perspective of their intellectual prowess. When you have intellectuals on the other side, it's really hard to stereotype us as knuckle draggers, and I think that's one of the the things I try, I try to. I try to do it, but in the end I'm a warrior. Like in the end. I'm a warrior In the end, you know You're also a thinker, though, bill.
Speaker 1:I don't buy that. I mean, yes, I'd buy that you're a warrior, but I don't buy that you're first and foremost a warrior. I think you're just as much a thinker as you are a warrior.
Speaker 2:I got to be honest with you. It takes me a lot of patience sometimes when that partner grabbed me and touched me in a kind of a sexual way. Yeah, he came pretty close to having a worst day of his fucking life and it's, you know, like, uh, so sometimes it take, you know, like it takes some real exercise and patience, but what?
Speaker 1:I'm talking about is your ability to put together your ideas for your, your ability to debate an issue. You're no different than my friend Chase when it comes to that. Like I mean, I can, I can do the same thing with you that I can do with Chase, which is, I can counter, argue a point, I can talk through an issue. Um, if I, if I have a question, I know I can text you with it. It's the same thing with Chase. So I would say that you kind of have that combination of a warrior mentality and you're also a thinker, and that's very powerful. I would argue that that's kind of a rarity. Usually you're one or the other right, you're kind of like a nerdy intellectual or you're a warrior and you've just been a warrior your whole life and you're just not a real deep thinker. But to be able to, uh, be both of those things at the same time, that's that's a rare trait and I think that's what makes you so powerful as an advocate.
Speaker 2:You know what I've been blessed to have beautiful friends like you. Uh, I think, um, when I think the value of having the ability to express your opinions in a way that others can consider. There's a real huge investment in that, because the dividends are if I can exert my influence via force or fear that influence is decreased substantially as much as the force and fear diminishes.
Speaker 2:So it's not the longevity of that is consistent on my force and ability or fear, but if I can convince somebody that my ideas, my ideas, are better for the advancement of humanity, now I don't need force or fear to be consistent. Right Because right, and I think that's why open dialogue is so important and that's why, like you know, that's why I think what happened in Charlie Kirk is such a disgrace, because it happened on a college.
Speaker 1:It happened it happened in a place of dialogue. It happened in a place where and that was his battleground. I mean he was honestly. I've watched a lot of YouTubes of Charlie Kirk. I've watched a lot of those ones where he debates the students or I mean I've even seen ones where he goes up against porn stars and just like big round table and he talks about family values and all these. I mean they're just very entertaining and kind of sad actually, because it's just such an intellectual difference of how they see these issues and sometimes I feel like, you know, the women are so outmatched by him that it's almost not even fair. But it's an incredibly interesting way in which he debates because he is very quick on his. You know, he's very quick to to come up with his ideas. He's got all the research and then he knows exactly when to put a zinger in there or when to make it kind of humorous, when to make it emotional. I mean, it's just, that's a heart, that is the art of debate. And, uh, he's, he was the best one of our time, like I.
Speaker 1:I can't think of anybody else in the media space that maybe j Peterson was a close second, but I used to think Jordan Peterson was the number one. Now I don't. I mean, I think Charlie Kirk has had Jordan beat when it comes to that and it's a just, it's a joy to watch. I would say also Joe Rogan he's a very good debater when he when he gets into those modes because he can use humor and entertainment, and so I just, I, just, I nerd out on this stuff. I think it's so interesting to watch the people that can really really really push an idea across and and and and and.
Speaker 1:Bill, like I said, you, you know that I think the world of you and I think that you have that same, that same gift and and and. To see people that can do that is just such a skill and such a gift and you have to share it with the world. When you have that, like chase, I mean, that's the same thing with him. He's, he's, he's got that gift of being able to use that intellectual prowess to push a point and do it in a way that's not rude, not disrespectful, and when you have that gift and that skill, then that is, that is your service, your service to others.
Speaker 1:So I, I just love what you're doing and, uh, you know we're going to continue to follow it. You've got a lot of comments. I'm sorry I didn't get through all the comments, uh, throughout the call, but as we, as we wrap up a call and we're at the top of the hour, um, we'll be following you on the 20th and and and wish you all the best, uh, with the March and then all your other endeavors that you got going on. Is there anything else that we didn't address or anything else that you want to touch on or expand on?
Speaker 2:You know, I just I hope for humanity's sake you know that what's happening in our college campuses.
Speaker 2:It's got to change. Like you can't punish and expunge others because they have a different perspective. Like you need to have what Charlie brought. You need to have where our campus were. Really dialogues are open form of debate. Like we really need that. We need that more than like civilized One of the things.
Speaker 2:Now that, be sincere, he was sometimes cocky and but they were coming at him. Sometimes you're all offensive and a little bit as well, but we need that open dialogue we need our country needs to heal and figure things out like look, I don't have anything against what consenting adults do, like their sexual preferences. I have no issues with it whatsoever. I do have an issue with like putting a rainbow flag up with the American flag. I do have an issue with like trying to sexualize our kids really young. I do have an issue with having biological males in my daughter's bathroom or competing against my daughter.
Speaker 2:That doesn't make me a bigot. That doesn't make me uncharitable. I have differences of opinion in some things. It doesn't make me a horrible person and, to be sincere, I don't have any issues with gay and lesbian advocates or even transgender advocates. Some of the transgender stuff I don't quite get. I think Elon Musk is right in the fact that a lot of white people are being promoted in such like with critical race theory as like the lowest of the low and like some, in my opinion, easily influence youth, try to get out of that and maybe get more scholarships or preferential treatment or, you know, to be in one of these protected classes. And I think I am concerned with some of the biological changes and that are happening to our youth in these transitions, that that's so young. I don't know the ins and outs of that, right, right, I definitely don't know if a 14 year old is mentally ready to be able to say that there are another.
Speaker 2:But here's something to be truthful with you. I believe in the sanctity of my body. Right after this is my body I like. So I, who am I to tell anybody what they can do with their body? I, I don't know, you know. I just I am cautious about it. I have some concerns I do not think you know. Like in California, where they can have, you know, they can basically take away the kids If the parents disagree with their decision to transgender before a mature adult. I disagree with that, but I don't think that makes me a bigot Right.
Speaker 1:I mean and that's the thing Like we don't want to be forced into being called racist or being called I've been called it all.
Speaker 1:Oh, and I was too. When I came out and suggested that perhaps people who feel that they are in the wrong gender may have some mental health struggles and maybe mental health is responsible for some of the issues with concerning identity. I was also compared to a racist or a sexist and I really reject that. But that's because we've been indoctrinated into thinking that we can't question these policies at all. And you know, I love all people I love. In fact, I'll tell you the truth, bill, I have one friend who may or may not watch my shows anymore, who is transgender and has done some of the transitioning. I won't say who it is and I still love him to death. I mean, she was a her and I'll call him by his name and respect all the pronouns and all those things. It doesn't change the fact that I still love that person. And you know, what was funny is, even when he was going through the transition, he knew I didn't understand it, but it didn't matter. I mean we were still friends it, but it didn't matter. I mean we were still friends. And you know I've had the same view all along. That it's just. I don't understand it, and not because I haven't tried, I just think that biology is biology and it's hard for me to move from that. But I think these are all just wonderful conversations that we've got to talk about.
Speaker 1:And before I forget, I do want to mention two other great women debaters that I did not mention because I mentioned the guys, but I got to mention the girls and of course they're right of center. Maybe some leftist people can tell me who the great left debaters are, but Megan Kelly and Candace Owen. I want to give both of them a shout out as well, because they are both masters at dialogue, at research, at putting across a view. They are the ones I watch on the female side who really understand how to speak eloquently about a point and bring forth evidence. So there are some really great people in the media space that we can watch and I encourage people, especially in light of what happened, to go look at some of Charlie Kirk's YouTube videos where he's doing these debates, and watch his issues and see what you guys think. Even those ones who are leftist center, who may or may not follow me anymore, please, please, because I don't know. A lot of them have defriended me in the last few weeks, but if they're still sticking around. Maybe just expose yourself to his ideas and see what you think. You may not agree with him, but that's okay. That's okay.
Speaker 1:But, bill, thank you so much for joining once again, the Stories of Service podcast. It's always a pleasure to have you on and I will meet you backstage to say goodbye and go full screen real quick. But thank you so much and appreciate your time. All right guys. Thank you so much for joining us this week. Like I say, I only had one show this week. I did have a pop-up show last Sunday, but next week I'm having Keith Berry on the show That'll be on Tuesday.
Speaker 1:That is going to be a very serious episode. It's going to be a very difficult episode. As you guys know, I have a ongoing series about false allegations. This will be another story that will be a little bit difficult to hear but, I believe, a very important story to tell. And then the following Thursday, I do have a gentleman who is running for office, I believe in Maryland, but I need to dig into that case, his story, a little bit further. But I'll be giving you guys more information about that in the following days, as I always do. To finish the call, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye-bye now.