S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
From the little league coach to the former addict helping those still struggling, hear from people from all walks of life how they show up as a vessel for service and drive for transformational change. Hosted by Theresa Carpenter, a 29-year active duty U.S. naval officer who found service was the path to unlocking trauma and unleashing your inner potential.
S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
From Shadowland to Freedom: Frank Soonius | S.O.S. #212
In this powerful episode, Frank Sunius takes us on a remarkable journey—from a difficult childhood in Amsterdam to wrongful imprisonment in Australia, and ultimately, to his rebirth as an inspirational speaker and author.
Born to a mother who survived Japanese concentration camps and a father who valued success over connection, Frank grew up feeling unseen. To cope, he created what he calls his “Shadowland”—an imaginary refuge where he felt safe and valued.
As a highly sensitive child in a world that rewarded toughness, Frank found his footing in sports. He became a skilled basketball player and tennis coach, known for his ability to unlock potential in others. But while he gave endlessly to those around him, his own needs went unmet. Burnout hit hard while working on a methadone research project in Amsterdam, leading to a severe mental health crisis.
Prescribed powerful medications that caused dissociation, Frank was vulnerable. A well-meaning suggestion to take a “timeout” in Australia became a nightmare when he landed in Sydney and discovered his luggage had been tampered with—filled with drugs. Despite reporting the damaged suitcase himself, Frank was arrested, convicted, and sentenced to 11 years in prison.
What followed were four harrowing years behind bars—but paradoxically, it was in prison where Frank began to heal. Writing became his lifeline. His words helped medical professionals realize he had been misdiagnosed and overmedicated.
When he was unexpectedly released, he faced the world homeless, penniless, and disoriented. But a chance meeting with a former tennis student led to a coaching opportunity that sustained him for 17 years. Encouraged by mentors like Nick Vujicic, Frank turned his pain into purpose—sharing his story in his book Trapped in a Dream and inspiring audiences as a motivational speaker.
Frank’s message is clear and unforgettable: “Doubt less, fail more, dream bigger, and find your support team.” His story is a powerful reminder that our darkest chapters can lead to our most meaningful purpose.
🎧 Listen now to hear Frank's extraordinary story of trauma, redemption, and transformation.
Visit my website: https://thehello.llc/THERESACARPENTER
Read my writings on my blog: https://www.theresatapestries.com/
Listen to other episodes on my podcast: https://storiesofservice.buzzsprout.com
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Well, hello everybody and welcome to a special second episode I'll have another one later on tonight of stories of service, ordinary people who do extraordinary work, and today I don't have somebody from the military, but I believe that his story of struggle, survival and thriving through adversity is something that is going to resonate with you all, and, as you know, I've been doing a lot of episodes about people who have been wrongfully accused, so this will also be an episode about that as well and about navigating through the justice system from that point forward. So, frank, so soon as how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Frank Curzio 00,00,00. Today a little bit better. It's, it's, it's, it's okay, it's okay, I will find my way and we will come to there. So.
Speaker 1:I get it. Everybody is not going to always have the best day. I think that we all see on the social media the pretty shiny photos and the amazing life, but in real life Life sometimes just sucks and we have to be okay with that. I don't know why we're not.
Speaker 2:We have to and we do. We have no other choice, by the way, we have no choice.
Speaker 1:No, we absolutely don't. Well, to get this story started on a positive note, as I always do, here is an intro from my father, Charlie Pickard.
Speaker 3:From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents. We are inspiring others by showing up as a vessel of service. We not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS. Stories of Service hosted by Teresa Carpenter. Hear from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.
Speaker 1:In Frank's life journey. It spans triumph, trauma and ultimate transformation. Born to a mother who survived Japanese concentration cramps in Indonesia, and a stern, success-driven, father, frank spent much of his early life torn between others' expectations and his own quiet desire to help those in need. Much of his early life torn between others' expectations and his own quiet desire to help those in need. For 17 years, his compassionate nature was stifled as he was pushed to conform to a more masculine and entrepreneur mold and denied that emotional support. He found solace in his imagination, a world he called Shadowland, and I can definitely relate to this. I used to do the same thing.
Speaker 1:Though he later achieved great success as a sportsman, trainer, coach and research marketer, his inner world continued to unravel, leading to isolation and depression. However, his wake-up call came in an unexpected place a prison cell in Sydney, australia. Wrongfully convicted and facing the darkest chapter of his life, including several suicide attempts, he was forced to confront the reality he avoided for years and, paradoxically, that became his salvation, and we're going to be talking all about that today. Now he's back in the Netherlands, runs a successful tennis school and uses his incredible life story to inspire and empower others to break free from their own personal shadow land. So welcome again, frank.
Speaker 2:Thank you, teresa, it's lovely to be here. And what an intro from your father to beautiful. Oh, thank you, teresa, it's lovely to be here, and what an intro from your father, too beautiful oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:I like, I loved it. It's. It's so true. You know, there are, there are so many people. I always say, when, when you speak and you see the audience, it's always for me the people in the audience who probably have the best stories, but but they don't share them, and that's why I do what I do. I want those people to stand up and start. You know, suffering in silence, so many people are suffering in silence, but they have so much in them. So that's what I do.
Speaker 1:They do, they do.
Speaker 1:Everybody has a story and there is a wonderful balance in how we share our stories to inspire others to do the same. I was watching something the other day about a podcaster who coaches other podcasters Rich Cardona and he talked about how it's not a trauma dump when you share your story. It's sharing it in a way that inspires others to do the same, and that is definitely an art, and, as we grow as storytellers, I think that's something that we all have to focus on is because it's really not about us. We're the vehicle to inspire others to do the same.
Speaker 2:So true, and that's why my book and you will come to there, that's why my book I wanted come to there, that's why my book I wanted to write my book already for 25 years. But how? You've got them too, of course, of course you got them. And, uh, for me, in those four years, I had to learn that the story is not for me anymore, it's not my story, it belongs to the world. And I had to make that mind shift completely that I write it, not for me anymore. But what can somebody else get out of this story? And that was so. Yeah, it was difficult, to be honest, that was really difficult.
Speaker 1:You have written such an amazing book. Not only is the book so inspirational from the early days of your childhood and describing the relationship with your mother, but then just the way that you were constantly checking in with where your feelings were at any given time as you were going through the experience. So let's just kind of get started and give the audience a little bit of a taste of the book when were you born and raised and give the audience a little bit of a taste of the book when were you born and raised.
Speaker 2:Amsterdam that was my place to be. But guess what? My father was director of Nestles in New Lever and we moved so many times houses and because where he goes, the children goes and then that's what happened all the time. And Switzerland was his home base and I loved the time in Switzerland, by the way, because it was a beautiful place. But, yeah, amsterdam and everything around Amsterdam. In the end I started living in a small village close to Amsterdam, say 10 minutes, 15 minutes from Amsterdam, called Lens Lake, and there my life really took off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you grew up with a very loving mother, but a mother who was a survivor in her own right. Tell us a little bit about that and I'm going to put you on full screen too, as you talk. So I'm still here, but I just want the audience to see you.
Speaker 2:Okay, I always tell this story. My mother was born in Indonesia and when she was just born her father found three little tiger cubs in Indonesia and the mother was they couldn't find the mother, probably he was killed. And so my mother, the first four or five weeks of her life she was raised together with four tiger cubs in her crib and that's why my mother became such a fighter. Because that's such a beautiful story and it's such a pity that the photos I have from that I still have photos from my mother sleeping with four tiger cups, but my sister has them because he's making an photo album with those photos with with text and everything, so they're not here but soon they're going to be here, that we will duplicate them because it's such an amazing story that the first four weeks for your life you're raised up with four little tiger cubs in your crib and that's why my father, my mother, became such an incredible fighter.
Speaker 2:When the war came and they were locked up in a in Japanese war camp and the horrible things happened there. And I'm not allowed to read those memories because my mother's got a whole book of my grandfather who wrote a book about that that time, but they're so horrific what happened there, and my mother never talked about it, and so, yeah, that that, that was a little bit about my mother so growing up uh, I think that you were.
Speaker 1:You were a very, uh, different kind of kid too, you. You didn't always fit in, and I can relate to that.
Speaker 2:Um, tell us a little bit about what your upbringing was like yeah, they call it high sensitive and I was high, high, high, high sensitive. So everything happened in my world, outside my world, it went into my life and I always tell the story about the little ducklings. I always saw little ducklings alone in the water and I could only imagine how a little duckling, who was swimming with his brothers and sisters, with his mother, in the water, ends up swimming alone and is complete in panic. And I always took those ducklings out of the water, brought them home to my bathroom and we raised so many of those ducklings because I thought they were alone. You have to help them. But guess what I know now? I was helping myself because I felt like a little duckling in a world that was yeah, it was too big for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the one.
Speaker 1:thing that you found as you were growing up. That I found especially meaningful, though, is that you were athletic, and that's a game changer for a child, because I did not grow up athletic, and it's probably one of my biggest regrets. Although I, I can play ping pong, I can, I can hit a ball back and forth, and so now I'm actually doing pickleball, and I told my husband yesterday after we played and and I played pretty decent and I said babe, that's the first time I've ever enjoyed playing sports, because sports have always been so painful for me. But for you you had, uh, athletics. So tell me a little bit about that part of your childhood that was my um saver.
Speaker 2:I always say to become an athlete was real. I was real there and the rest I fantasized. But the trophies that always wanted to win, to show my father hey, I'm not a useless dreamer, I'm, I'm. You see what I do? I win, I, I, I had to win, I had to. So that's why I became so good, because, you know, I wanted to show my father hey, listen, look at me, look at me. Maybe I'm not good at study and school because I couldn't focus for five minutes.
Speaker 1:So you know, athletics and basketball and tennis were a lifesaver for me. Did it cause your father to see you in any different way by doing it? No?
Speaker 2:Not at all, not at all. And even his secretary put the newspapers with all the results and the best results and playing in the Nationals. She put them with the coffee on his desk.
Speaker 1:He didn't even know I was playing, because I was different right, yeah, I, I can relate to what you call the shadow land, um, and can you describe for the audience, uh, what that is?
Speaker 2:that's a place where you can be whatever you want to be. You go upstairs. When your father said, go upstairs, useless, useless guy, go upstairs. And then you think, oh, I'm going to drown or you can create new hope. You can create everything as well. Everybody loves you, everybody hugs you. You're winning, you're winning. And your father is coming with you and cheering you on. And I played it over and over and over again in that shadowland.
Speaker 1:I did the same thing. I spent a lot of my childhood grounded in a room and I in that room. I could be anything I wanted to be, I could listen to whatever music I wanted, I could watch whatever TV I wanted, and I would just stay in this like daydream for hours, to the point where I still, to this day day, have to stop myself from living in my head and focusing on the present, and my husband will catch me on it, like I'll even be driving, and that's why I'm such a bad driver. In the middle of driving, I'll just disassociate and I have to stop myself from doing that. And you talked a lot about that. How you, how you would do that in childhood.
Speaker 2:I've got two chapters in my book and I love those chapters because that was me. But real life will catch up with you, because when you dream too much and when you start to really think that fantasy is your real world, one day real life will catch up with you and then you wake up really hard yeah, and it's a balance.
Speaker 1:I think that you should have these dreams and you should aspire to be better, but at the same time you have to be practical and day-to-day world demands physical and emotional presence and you have to just balance the two. I think it's a matter of being able to integrate both of those into both of those parts of yourself, into into daily life. So tell me a little bit about how high school went for you. And then some of those early, early jobs, early career.
Speaker 2:Well, I couldn't sit for five minutes so I couldn't focus, and I was intelligent enough, that's what all the tests said. But to sit for five minutes, 10 minutes, and concentrate, to focus, oh my God. There's always something more beautiful, more to do or to help, especially help other people who are bullied. Or, you know, I was always something else, because I didn't like it, I didn't like school, I didn't like I'm gonna be a sports, sports guy. So you know, I was so happy that when I was 20 I could go to a sport university and to become a teacher, a tennis teacher, and that was really made for me. But still I had to do the theories and the practice. I was always good, eight, nine, but to learn, oh my God, to study, to really look at two pages, oh my God, to learn two pages.
Speaker 1:It was difficult. So, during this this time, what was your relationships like with your friends or with girlfriends? How was that part of your life going?
Speaker 2:uh, that was also difficult because, um, to get out of your fantasy world and into the real world, uh, if something goes wrong in the real world, you see, I better stay at the fantasy world. So you start running back and forth, and back and forth and so many people don't understand where you are. They think, hey, hey, frank, get real, you know and and okay, you don't like me, that's a rejection. And I saw everything. But somebody told me the truth oh, it's a rejection, it's a rejection and I don't like rejection. So I run to my fantasy world and make it right again. So for a lot of people it was really difficult to really get to know me. But the people who took the time to get to know me, they saw the real me and I think they saw the real me and I think they liked the real Frank.
Speaker 1:How many years were you working before the law enforcement issues started to happen?
Speaker 2:Everything went well. I became, of course, a successful basketball player, and when that was not that good anymore, because age is catching up with you, you start to coach more. I coached already when I was 17 years old and my teams were always winning. And because of one thing I was not the best teacher, but I made my pupils, my people, better than I, showed them to get the blockage out and be who you want to be. And if basketball is your thing, when tennis is your thing, it will come with you, because you're believing that I'm not the best trainer, but I was always the one who gave you the confidence to be who you want to be. You were somebody who motivated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you're the tennis player, the confidence to be who you want to be. You were somebody who motivated, who inspired.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you're the tennis player, the tennis is already in you. I only have to put the switch on and you will start winning. And then everybody says, oh, you're such a good trainer, I thought I did nothing, but they start to win. They start to win and they did it all by themselves. And I always said you did it all by themselves. And I always said you did it, I didn't do it, I didn't do anything. And they said you're amazing. And then you get the phone calls you want to do this, you want to do this, you can make that money. And I thought it was so natural for me to do that because I could feel what you needed, because when you're high sensitive, you can sense that and take it away and somebody starts to flourish and and win yeah, and I think that it's interesting because my husband and I are so different.
Speaker 1:My husband is just intrinsically motivated, on his own, to just get good at things and will research, and research, and research until he becomes like the best at something. It's, it's really amazing, and he doesn't really need any outside coaching or help, whereas I'm like the total opposite, like if somebody says I'm good at something, I'm like, oh yeah, I am, I am good, okay.
Speaker 1:And I want to just keep going, but it's just interesting that people are so driven by different things. Tell me a little bit about how this, the early years, turned into sort of going down a road that wasn't so great, because then, as things started because I believe that, like before you even went to jail or to prison, things had already sort of taken sort of a turn right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was doing amazing. So people start to notice you. And then somebody from the government of Amsterdam, a research marketer. He said you're so good in approaching people. Said you're so good in approaching people, um, and I did a lot of research of, of of uh, things that were really important in holland.
Speaker 2:I did really big research projects and because of my results I was asked to do the methadone project in amsterdam and and we've got a lot of problems with drug users in amsterdam, so they had a solution for drug users. It's called the Methadone Project and what they want from me is to interview 80 people who were using methadone as a substitute of heroin for already more than five to ten years, and they want to see what methadone was really doing with them. And of course I said, oh yeah, I'd love to do that, you know, let's do it. But there I overstepped all my boundaries, because drug users are not sport people. They don't want to get better, they only want one thing to go to the next shot better. They only want one thing to go to the next shot, to get away from the pain. And and I thought I'm a winning coach, I can help those people and I start to coach those. I start to help them.
Speaker 2:And guess what? The results were not there anymore and I thought, oh my god, I'm a failure. You see, my father is right. So I started to work harder and harder and harder and nowadays, 30 years later, they call it burnout, but for me it was mental illness.
Speaker 2:I was stroked by mental illness because I became so sick that my boss stopped the project, sent me to a psychiatrist and that psychiatrist put me. After 45 minutes speaking with me, he put me on Tresodone, and Tresodone is one of the worst medications. It's on the same level as heroin here in Holland. It's not allowed anymore in Holland. But he gave me, he prescribed me, tresedone and there it all went wrong. I became, I started to dissociate and then the crazy story started because they found me on all different places and when you ask me what you are doing there, I could only say well, well, I don't have a clue. And that's what dissociation does with people. It dissociates you from. Yeah, you want to go somewhere, and a half hour later you you're found completely somewhere different. And oh my god, I can talk about this for hours because it will be a very important thing in my trial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that what happened is you were put in charge of people who, quite frankly, had probably some of the same mental health challenges that you yourself did, and I'm sure trying to help them and treat them was somewhat triggering and would bring back some of the things that you had experienced. I know for me, when I'm around others who are similarly damaged and not seeking help and not trying to work on those issues, it will spiral me back into a place that's not healthy anymore and I have to be very careful about who I surround myself with. So I would imagine you had those same feelings.
Speaker 2:I know exactly what you're talking about. And and still I'm Frank, the winning coach, and still I'm Frank the winning coach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can solve anything that fight, why cannot?
Speaker 2:I help. Why do you not want to get better? Right? And the story of Bob? The story of Bob is one of the most beautiful stories. I met Bob. He was a drug user for already 20 years when I met him and Bob told me the story that he once was the second highest paid bank people from the National Bank in Holland. He had almost half a million a year.
Speaker 2:And one day he was in Spain sitting in front of his tent on his camping and his wife and four children walked to the camp store and they screamed to him hey, Daddy, you want some ice cream too? He said, yeah, I want two bowls of this, this, this, this. And then that terrible accident happened in Spain at that camping place in 1986, when that truck came around the corner and exploded and a minute later, his wife and his four children there was nothing left. And that story is in my book because this guy said frank, what I did to try to stop that view, that whole journey. He he explained me. But in the end he said the most beautiful thing. He said frank, there were too many hours in the day, I couldn't stop that story and that's why he became addicted to drugs and he lost everything and now he's sleeping somewhere in Amsterdam under a bridge. He wants it all.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And I always said what are weaklings? They have no backbone. They're weak people, drug users, but I don't say that anymore. They're weak people, drug users, but I don't say that anymore, because after this story, that could be my story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can happen to anybody.
Speaker 2:I could have been on those drugs, because I tried to find something. I created the fantasy world, but he created.
Speaker 1:he did that too, but it was not good enough to get through the day, and that's why the drugs came. Yep, the drugs help you disassociate. It's another way of doing it. You can do it with your mind, you can do it with drugs, you can do it with compulsive exercise. I mean, anything can become a numbing mechanism or a way to work. There's's people who constantly focus on.
Speaker 2:So I always say don't judge anymore. Please listen to the stories, and I heard 80 of those stories and those 80 stories could have been my story.
Speaker 1:But your story was pretty crazy, so let's get into it. So tell us a little bit about your uh trip, trip to australia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little bit about how that started yeah, well, I'm not sure how it started, but it started somewhere on a square in amsterdam where I told somebody who are he was really taking care of me. I told them they want to lock me up in a mental institution. He said no, frank, no, you need a time out. My friend, don't do that. Don't go to that mental institution, don't do it. You know, wait a minute. I've got a friend in Australia. He lives on Bondi Beach and the moment he said that, my dissociated mind must have thought beaches, koala bears, kangaroos something must have taken over.
Speaker 1:And this was after you had burned out from this experience with the folks that were on Tresor. Down, yeah, and put on Tresor down, and put on treasure down and and complete loss just kind of lost and just all over the place and and and you were having relationship issues as well um, yeah because, because of this, because of the reaction to these drugs and just where your head was, and someone says, oh, but I have a solution, I have an idea.
Speaker 2:I have an idea, let's do this, and I thought this is an amazing friend who will do something like this. You know, send me to Australia for a few months. Beautiful apartment on Bombay Beach. Oh my God, I saw it all happening.
Speaker 1:This is going to solve everything. This is going to solve. But what I forgot forgot you bring them your troubles to wherever you go. Something about how they divorced their husband, left their kids behind and moved to peru and it's got this beautiful thing of someone, like you know, so happy and just doing all these great things and I'm like no, anywhere you move, you're still you, unless you fix the things that were wrong. So anyway.
Speaker 2:But you thought, okay, I'm gonna go to australia with three bag, a big green bag of medication for three months. And then, yeah, then the story start and it became crazier and crazier. Because I end up in australia and maybe you know the program border security. You can see it on television, you see Australia and you see all the cameras, people arriving in Australia and they get questions and and that's happened also to me but I was waiting for my suitcase and guess what? All the suitcases were already at the passengers but my suitcase didn't come. So I wanted to walk up to the customs. Then somebody who I met in the plane came to me. He said Frank, hurry up, you can come with us, you don't have to take a cab, we can put you to your holiday destination. I said well, my suitcase is not there.
Speaker 2:She said oh, wait a minute. And that moment the belt start going again. And guess what? There is a suitcase. Open some clothes out, there's a big hole in it and the girl, doris Kieran she's a Catholic school teacher in Australia said don't touch it anymore, let's call somebody from.
Speaker 1:Newcastle. Let's see what happened.
Speaker 2:Let's see what happened and well, there the crazy story starts, because a half hour later, two police officers sit in front of me and say listen, frank, we know what happened. You don't know what happened. Help us and we will help you. I said well, what's going on here? He said, well, for what's in your suitcase, you go for life in prison.
Speaker 1:And you're thinking to yourself all I have is medications. All I have is my mental health medications.
Speaker 2:I said give me another tablet, because this is not true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these things were not in my suitcase.
Speaker 2:This is not in my suitcase and they do not belong to me. Well, I did help them. It's all in my book. I all helped them, but it didn't work out. The cameras were not working.
Speaker 1:Magically.
Speaker 2:They didn't work out, the cameras were not working Magically, they didn't work 127. And they will be my evidence in my court case, because when 12 juries will see that I reported my suitcase to the customs, they will say or he's sick or he is. What's going on? He's a stupid criminal, so you know. And he's a stupid criminal, so you know.
Speaker 2:And that's what I did In the end of my trial. There were two questions Can we see one more time the evidence? When Frank Charny came in and the judge had to say, Well, I will show you, but they're not there, and the judge accepted that the prosecutor said I cannot show them because they're not there, but we've got the customs, We've got the testimonies. And they all said Frank came to us and told us his suitcase is broken. So it was all there, but still, a picture paints a thousand words. If you could show, they would say oh, he didn't do it. And the second question was can we give a verdict with a recommendation? Can we say he's maybe guilty, but where is he guilty of? Of being sick or trusting his friends or you know? And the judge said yes, you can give a recommendation.
Speaker 1:The end result guilty, without any recommendation. That's just crazy. So what do you? I don't know if I caught this in the book. What do you think happened Like? How did this?
Speaker 2:Oh, I know exactly exactly what happened. When you check in, you cannot check in 30,000 tablets. There is no airport where you can check in 30,000 tablets, because somebody is sitting behind that screen and even if you have water or a little bottle, you get picked out.
Speaker 1:And this was your checked baggage. This was not carry-on right baggage. This was not carry-on right, or was this carry-on? Was this a? Was this something? This wasn't a baggage that you carried onto the plane. This was no, no, no, no this was checked baggage it was checked package okay, got it, so they would have seen it at 30 000 tablets.
Speaker 2:I know how it it looks like on an x-ray. It's really straight. 30,000 tablets, it's really straight, and I've got the photos here. I've got everything here because I have to go over it again, because now England don't want to let me in, so I had to go to the hall.
Speaker 1:You have to relive this once again.
Speaker 2:Once again, once a criminal, always a criminal.
Speaker 1:So, okay, let's go back to it. You go to check-in. Your luggage is fine, or it would have been caught. At what point do you think your luggage was compromised?
Speaker 2:The moment it goes through the X-ray compromised. Uh, the moment it goes through the x-ray, some customs people change the samsonite complete set up suitcase. They put the clothes in the other suitcase and it goes into the plane. And there were six bags like that in one plane, only one, my, because they put six kilos in one side. It was throwing the suitcase. Something must have happened with the suitcase because it was broken and that's why I reported it. And it happens every month a few times because the customs here are changed, like the color in the TV screen. It's, there are so many.
Speaker 1:So basically somebody else smuggled it.
Speaker 2:And I know who did it. We know who did it and who was waiting for it. We know everything. But that was a little bit too late for my trial, because Because in the book they tried to offer you a deal.
Speaker 1:They tried to say, okay, if you tell on so-and-so, we'll reduce your sentence.
Speaker 2:No, they even let me go. I only had to say the girl who visited me at the hotel the pills were for her. So I had to say to her yeah, she asked for the pills, they're for hers. And now, 20 years later, I know she was involved. Her father had set up the whole organization with the customs and everything, and she was promised a new Mercedes-Benz and an apartment in Sydney and she was into it. But I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:I couldn't say and was customs in on it too.
Speaker 2:I don't know I know, I know they were into it, but the dutch ones were involved, oh, my god, this is just.
Speaker 1:They just wanted a fall guy, they wanted a scapegoat. You know, that's how a lot of these things work. I mean, I've been doing a lot with this issue of false accusations within the military, so much so that I'm even adding a guest tonight on the show that I was going to have much later horrifying. And then I just can't believe that this actually happens. Um, they need people, need someone to pay, and that's what sounds like happened because it was detected. If it hadn't been detected, 100 you would have been, but because it was detected, someone had to be a fall guy, and they found an innocent person to be the fall guy.
Speaker 2:And I was listen, they could have asked me anything. It's really funny when I say the guy who sent me to Australia. If he had said, hey, you're going to bring 30,000 tablets, are you okay with it? I'm really scared. What my answer should have been Because I want only one thing is to to leave Holland. Because I was so suicidal, I was so under the medication, I didn't care. If he had told me I probably would have said yes, but they didn't, so I didn't know.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, that's crazy. So how?
Speaker 2:long did so.
Speaker 1:It's more than crazy how long did you so, so you go to prison, and I hear that from people who've been to prison. It's its own game in and of itself, from the political games that people play and all those things. So you, you had to endure all of that.
Speaker 2:Take it the attacks, the bashings, the, and then also I came out of prison. I came out of prison because somebody told me something crazy at a bible study and I became a hero because I told what he told me during the bible study. I it to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist told the police. The police came to interview me and I became involved with Michael Guider and he's one of the most horrific pedophiles Australia ever had. So I solved without knowing.
Speaker 1:I solved one of the biggest crimes in Australia without knowing, and they gave me even money and they let me out of prison as a reward of that did the people at the prison, as you were there, did they start to know that, like you shouldn't be there, were there a lot of people that were there? That?
Speaker 2:was like, this guy has no business being here, oh yeah, there were so many, they were so nice to me, some even left let my door open during the night because I was claustrophobic. They I couldn't escape. They said you cannot go away, but the moment you know your door is open I could sleep. So there were so such nice guards too.
Speaker 1:There were horrible guards, but there were also amazing people were there out of curiosity, were there other people there that you think had no business being there that were?
Speaker 2:oh my god, I met so many beautiful people inside jail.
Speaker 1:Like people that you think did not commit what they were being accused of.
Speaker 2:Maybe they did something stupid, but they should not have been there for what they'd done.
Speaker 1:And not as long as they were there for what they did.
Speaker 2:No, exactly. Some people were desperate that they did something stupid. But I also met people who always said to me I didn't do it and I believed them. I believed them and I still have contact with a few of them. I still in contact with a few of them. How? Many years were you there four years, uh and two months. Wow, altogether from an 11 years sentence. Wow, altogether from an 11 years sentence.
Speaker 1:And the day that you were told what you were told, did you know, as you were being told it, that this was going to be the thing that was going to just change the course of the rest of your life and how things were going to turn out?
Speaker 2:You mean my release.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, did you know? When that person told you what they told you, did you think, oh my god, like what does this mean?
Speaker 2:that's sort of a turning point oh, the turning point was the 9th of august 2000, one day before the sydney olympics. I had to hurry up because they're going to close the the airspace and they have decided to let me out. And there was a call on the intercom frank, sunius, pack your stuff. And then you know the drill. You put the stuff in one big box, you stand behind the line and the door opens. You get the change and you know.
Speaker 2:But this time the door opens and a big card, blonde woman, and she said with a big smile frank, you deserve this so much, it's your lucky day. I said what do you mean? You're going home. I said what? You're going home, you only have to sign here and in two hours you'll fly to am. And that's still. That story is still till the day. You know, I can see still the drops on the paper writing my release papers and sent back, and my mother didn't even know I was coming. So the next 24 hours they had to organize everything because I was let out and nobody told me why. And still today I don't know why they let me out after four years and two months.
Speaker 1:Wow, so you get out of prison. And now what's next?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that were the most horrible, even more horrible than the time in prison. The first four or five months outside prison I didn't have a clue. I was all over the place, I was completely lost, I was homeless, I had no money. And yeah, there the story really starts again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you've got to rebuild you, you got to rebuild everything that you've lost no food I had.
Speaker 2:Normally I had three times food a day, and a place to sleep and a place, and I had to organize it all and, oh my god how'd you find work?
Speaker 1:what'd you do?
Speaker 2:that was such a beautiful story and maybe one day you read in the book. Somebody saw me. Somebody saw me walking and she recognized me and she said Frank, frank, frank, are you there? I said who are you? She said I'm Susan. I'm one of your pupils. Four or five years ago, six years ago, I was on your tennis group. I said, ago, six years ago, I was on your tennis group. I said wonderful. And she said, frank, we've got a new tennis school. What are you doing at the moment? I said, oh well, I'm on sick leave. Leave me alone. You know it's. She said no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have to come to our new tennis school because we need the best we need you and we need you.
Speaker 2:And guess what? I was a new tennis teacher for the next 17 years. That's the universe. Universe always put you where you belong I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:And then did you say to yourself, because you had already started to write the book while you were, uh, in, in prison, I remember reading that part of it where you were starting to kind of think about what the outline of the book was going to be.
Speaker 2:Living in Shadowland.
Speaker 1:Yes, that was what you called it originally.
Speaker 2:Living in Shadowland. There are certain pages. It's the heart of my book. I started to write the book six, seven years ago and Living in Shadowland I wrote already in 1997 in an isolation cell in a mental hospital in Long Bay where a guard who was watching me already seven weeks couldn't understand why somebody with a trained body like me didn't want to live anymore and had a tube in his nose for food laying there on the ground.
Speaker 2:He couldn't understand. So one day he grabbed a paper and a little pencil, put it on the door and he asked me Frank, I know you don't want to live anymore, but can you help me out? Can you write? Where are you? Where are you today? That's great. And that night I wrote 13 pages called Living in Shadowland and a few days later in a newspaper in Australia was a photo a man with a brilliant mind. But because those papers he gave to my treating psychiatrist, he took me straight away off the wrong medication and I started to come back because of those 13 pages. He said oh my god, he's on the wrong medications.
Speaker 2:He they knew and he found that those 13 pages was me and he put me on a program and of course, I needed another four years in jail to, yeah, to find myself because I'm going to say something really different now. That judge was so wrong, put me in jail, but guess what? He made the right decision. He was wrong, but if he didn't put me in that jail with his wrong decision, I would have been not here today.
Speaker 1:It's fascinating. I feel the same way about the things that have gone through my life that were adverse and were the worst things that ever happened to me. If that hadn't happened.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't be here today If I didn't lose my orders to pensacola because I opened my big mouth on social media. I wouldn't live in this beautiful part of the country. If I hadn't opened my big mouth at a press conference supporting the sec def, I wouldn't be retiring in four weeks. Oh really wouldn't be retiring in four weeks. I decided I just couldn't stay on active duty anymore. But those were at the time really stressful things getting written up for forgetting a disclaimer while I was on active duty for a press conference. It was embarrassing on active duty for a press conference.
Speaker 1:It was embarrassing, but if it hadn't happened, your life goes where it's supposed to go. And if you can look at it with that introspection and see the good and the growth that comes from those really, really dark moments really dark moments you can gather so much insight and wisdom, and that's why we're here. We're here to take those things that happen, the good and the bad, and really try to make sense of it all. And do we have the answers? No, not all of them. I mean sometimes we do.
Speaker 2:So many people say Frank, frank, oh, you know it all. I said I'm not even close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm not even close and what I love about your story, and your book too, is that you didn't just go okay, I wrote a book, you're now speaking, you're now doing these podcasts. You just keep going. So how did that? How did the book turn into this? More like, because I I read in in your book too that you started following people like tony robbins and some of these like real big, you know motivational speakers. So so how did you take your writing? Because some people are just writers, how did you take being a writer to then being a public speaker?
Speaker 2:um, so many people told me always, frank, you have to be a speaker. You know, you start to tell people and you say well, I heard your story, but I think you can help a lot of other people. And then I met Bobby Schuller from Hour of Power. I don't know if you know those guys, I don't. Nick Vujicic, the man with no arms and legs.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, I do know who he is.
Speaker 2:He is an amazing guy, he is my mentor, he is my life saver. Because of him, he is on the back of my book, he is the real mentor of my, my book. And he told me it's your moral obligation, frank, it's your moral obligation to start sharing your story. I said are you out of your mind? Do you think I'm gonna overstep my boundaries one more time? No way, no way. Guess what? I'm doing? It it now, with so much love. It's really my purpose, it's my passion. And so many people say after my speaking. They say I expected a lot, but this is much more.
Speaker 2:This is so much more what you give away. Frank, please keep doing it. And you know, nick and Bobby and Bobby Shuler and all those big guns, they all say your story is even better than my story. Nick said it to me. He said, frank, I've got no arms and legs, but you've got a problem, my friend. I said what do you mean? He said you've got arms and legs. If you want to become a speaker and you want your stadium to be full, if you have no arms and legs, they all want to see you but you don't look normal, so they don't know what's coming. But for me, I get always full stadiums and full audiences, but you look too normal, my friend. You've got arms and legs and I had to get to know that I had to. It's really hard to believe that. Somebody said to me your story is much better than my story. I only had to learn to learn.
Speaker 1:It's hard to take that in. Yeah, it's really hard, especially when you're looking at somebody who has gone through and obviously overcome so much to get to where they are for them to tell you that, but that's such an honor for them to see that and to and to understand what you're doing. And I forgot to say you do have somebody on here too, that says chuck borden ah, chick, he's amazing great to see you, and he said he's a stuntman.
Speaker 2:He is a stuntman in 400, more than 400 big movies, and now he wants to make a movie from my book oh, that's wonderful, I love it he wants to make it and we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. Chuck is so convinced, we're gonna to do it.
Speaker 1:I mean the fact, too, that you're still fighting the fight to this day just so that you can Now. Does this impact your ability to go to any country, or is this just a UK thing?
Speaker 2:What do you think about America?
Speaker 1:I bet it's the same. Oh, especially right now. Oh, right now, I bet it'd be really hard. I'll just leave it at that, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to even there. I'm just invited to go to Las Vegas. They want me to speak there. I said, well, I'm on it. If you can, let me in. If you find a way to let me in, please do the the work, find a solicitor and and let's see how we can go.
Speaker 1:We can do it, and I mean that's really a shame too, because there really needs to be a worldwide streamed process for people, especially people who have not only obviously I, I, you were wrongfully convicted, but even for people who do their time and pay back their debt to society. It's over, and that's where we really get things wrong. I mean, even in the military we have these veteran service organizations that won't let people in if they have a decreased discharge. So if they get a certain level of discharge, they won't let people join those organizations, and those organizations are struggling for people. So it just makes no sense to me that we have those kinds of people.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that you mentioned this. This is so important. What you're mentioning and I hope you do it every time you have a talk we have to mention this. You know, people can be rehabilitated.
Speaker 1:They can change their life completely and they deserve it, they deserve those second chances and those chances to make right those wrongs or third chances or fortunes exactly when they're ready to grow and they're ready to change. We're ready to have them and there are so many.
Speaker 2:And for me it's really hard, because I think I'm one of the good ones, I really think I'm one of the good ones, I really think I'm one of the good ones.
Speaker 1:But you know, and that's what everybody thinks, but the system says different, right, right, and we'll just keep, we'll keep talking about it, we'll keep pushing for those reforms. I'm very reformed it's your job.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be your job. I'm gonna give you your job well I already know, I mean, that's what.
Speaker 1:I talk about on this show, and you know it's interesting because the most controversial shows are sometimes either the most watched or the most shadow banned. And so I have to be careful in the ways that I do it, because I just don't want to alienate the very people that I'm seeking change from. But at the same time, I believe that this is what we need to do. We need to have these conversations and we need to come together. I don't care what side of the political aisle you're on, where you get your news, it doesn't matter. It matters how we treat one another, and it matters that we create environments that are healthy and that are safe and that are in places where people can thrive. And the only way to do that is to fix the due process systems, fix the systems by which people we hold people accountable. If we don't fix those systems, we will continue to have these problems.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm the guy I'm having on tonight. We're talking about news. I'm sure it was like this in Australia. They just get everyone to plead. They just everyone has to plead because they don't want to have a court case and they don't want to drag it out. But if you don't fight and you don't, let the justice system do its job, then you are taking what they give you and unfortunately, a lot of people are in those positions and I think that your story is a testament that we can heal and we can grow. And tell me a little bit about where you are today, like what, what, what? What path you're on now?
Speaker 2:Well, I was so happy to be a finalist at the Speaking Awards in London and I brought already 400 books to London with the ferry and some friends came here to visit me and they were with the motorhome and they filled up the whole motorhome to bring the books around. So we were so happy. And, of course, the agencies the booking agencies, the speaking agencies they wanted to all see me and make some contracts but it didn't happen. So it's a little setback, but still they try. I see them all looking in my LinkedIn now and it will happen. Maybe I was not ready yet, but it will happen. They cannot stop it. And Chuck chuck, who will make that movie? We will find, we will make that movie and and you know it's gonna happen. And that's why I say yes to you, because I've got so many invites to speak, but many I say no. I did 60 minutes the big show in australia. I did the, the tv show 60 minutes.
Speaker 1:That is a huge show.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is a big show and I spoke with ross coulthard. He's one of the big interviewers and you can find that on youtube everywhere. But we were so disappointed the way they broadcasted this show. You know, I was only a drug courier and they brought it like that and that's not the case. They know what the case is, but they only brought it to benefit their own show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's their own political framing and that's the problem with mainstream news and, frank, that's why people are turning to people like me instead and I welcome it. I want those military stories or stories, even like yours, that I know will benefit my audience, because unfortunately, the media has become so polarized. They're just looking at things like if you watch cbs, they're looking at things through the democrat lens or msnbc or even like the new york times. I just saw a reporter with the new york times talk about the sec def on a interview with msnbc and it was so biased and it was just full of just this, this, this leaning, and it wasn't. It wasn't an honest conversation about what the situation was, and that's what we need and I'm honored. I think I met you like a long time ago on like a clubhouse room oh yeah we're using clubhouse I don't know people are still using that.
Speaker 2:It's still there. There's also Chatter. That's the professional one, the Chatter one. Okay.
Speaker 2:You can make money with it and they give you money to talk. Sometimes I get money, but I don't like it at all. No, I don't like it. It's not my way to go, because everything I do is for the cause. I don't do it for the applause, the money I don't care. It's the message. I want my message out Doubt less, fail more, dream bigger and find your support team. And when you have your support team, go in 100%, go in completely, go in full. Make your support team strong, your mentor, your cheerleader you need Teresa, you need Frank, you need those five, six people and then go after your dreams, start living your dreams and fail as much as you need to.
Speaker 1:You're going to fail a lot. You're going to fall on your face and you're going to fail, and then you just have to keep getting up and keep going you got your support team.
Speaker 2:They're always there. If that support team is good enough, go fully yes, so here is the book that's my message everyone trapped in a dream.
Speaker 1:Never lose your drive. It is on. It is on any place.
Speaker 2:No, it's not on Amazon.
Speaker 1:Oh, never mind Sorry.
Speaker 2:It's not on. Find me on LinkedIn, find me on my website and you can see how you can order the book.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, Frank, I'm going to go full screen and say goodbye to the audience, but I'll meet you backstage to say goodbye.
Speaker 2:But thank you so much for coming on the Stories of Service podcast.
Speaker 1:It was my pleasure. Thank you All. Right, folks, this is just the first podcast today. In a few hours, I think, six hours or so, seven hours I will be having another podcast at 7 pm CST with Michael Kanzachi and he isa, seasoned investigator, who has investigated the issues with false accusations for a number of years, and we'll be talking about this from the vantage point of evidence gathering and where these cases go wrong, because they really do go wrong at the investigative point. That is the beginning of the cycle, of where things take a turn. So I wanted to attack that issue and really deep dive and figure out what it is we can do to make those things better. So thank you all for joining us. Thanks, chuck Borden, to being on the call. That was wonderful. And, as I always close these calls, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, enjoy the rest of your day. Bye-bye now.