S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
From the little league coach to the former addict helping those still struggling, hear from people from all walks of life how they show up as a vessel for service and drive for transformational change. Hosted by Theresa Carpenter, a 29-year active duty U.S. naval officer who found service was the path to unlocking trauma and unleashing your inner potential.
S.O.S. (Stories of Service) - Ordinary people who do extraordinary work
From Combat to Corporate: Dr. Michael Hackney on Leadership, Change & Service Beyond the Uniform | S.O.S. #207
In this powerful episode of Stories of Service, host Theresa Carpenter sits down with Dr. Michael Hackney—Army veteran, business leader, coach, and author—to explore the dynamic intersections of military service, organizational leadership, and personal reinvention.
Dr. Hackney shares his journey from commanding infantry units in Germany and supporting operations during the Gulf War to leading corporate turnarounds at Fortune 500 companies like PepsiCo, Sara Lee, and ConAgra. With a doctorate in organizational psychology from USC, he brings a unique perspective on what it takes to sustain meaningful change in both military and business environments.
Now the founder of ShaydeTree Enterprises in Nashville, Mike coaches executives and advises organizations on cultivating motivated, high-performing cultures. He also speaks candidly about his role as a veteran advocate, pilot, and writer—showing how a life of service can evolve in powerful and unexpected ways.
🎧 Tune in to hear:
* How military leadership principles apply to the boardroom
* Why "sustaining change" is more than a buzzword—it’s a discipline
* The critical importance of self-awareness and resilience in transformation
* Mike’s reflections on aviation, writing, and pursuing purpose beyond profit
* The ways he continues to serve veterans and mentor rising leaders
📚 About the Guest – Dr. Michael Hackney:
* Founder, ShaydeTree Enterprises (Nashville, TN)
* Former Infantry Officer & Gulf War veteran
* Doctorate in Organizational Psychology – University of Southern California
* Corporate turnaround specialist with leadership roles at PepsiCo, Sara Lee & ConAgra
* Published author, speaker, general aviation pilot, and veteran advocate
Key Takeaway:
Leadership isn’t just about strategy—it’s about creating spaces where people thrive, grow, and bring their best to the mission. Whether in combat zones or corporate boardrooms, Dr. Hackney's life proves that service never really ends—it just evolves.
🔗 Connect with Dr. Michael Hackney:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-mike-hackney-892b466/
Visit my website: https://thehello.llc/THERESACARPENTER
Read my writings on my blog: https://www.theresatapestries.com/
Listen to other episodes on my podcast: https://storiesofservice.buzzsprout.com
Watch episodes of my podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TheresaCarpenter76
Well, hello everybody and happy early 4th of July. So I thought I would start off on full screen tonight and be a little bit patriotic and celebrate one of my favorite, favorite, favorite times of year, which is celebrating the birth of our nation. I am very patriotic, I'm a very proud American. I hope you guys are very proud Americans. We have a lot to be thankful for living in this country, the land of the free, the home of the brave, and I never want to take advantage of, I never want to miss an opportunity to take advantage of that and to show my gratitude, even if it is wearing cheesy glasses, a cheesy lay, some cheesy headband and a little bit of a backdrop. But hope you guys enjoy this holiday with your friends and with your family. You see some fireworks, you do whatever it is you do, but you take a moment and count your blessings, because we have a lot to be grateful for. And with that I'll go ahead and take these off.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the stories of service podcast. I am the host of stories of service theresaenter and today we have another amazing guest. I absolutely love it when we have leaders in the corporate community who were prior military and then just go on and do amazing things in the civilian world and run businesses, write books, just do it all. I mean, the guest I have tonight has done so much with his life and is so incredibly accomplished. Mike Hackney, I'm going to put you on split screen. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing amazing and thank you very much for letting me be a part of your show.
Speaker 1:Well, it's an honor to have you and you've been such a also a loyal listener and follower of my content, and I want to let you know that I appreciate all of the people who tune in and leave routine comments on the posts. I mean, that means the world to me that I have people that are such loyal listeners and people like yourself who are so accomplished and are watching the shows that I put together and the people that I put together and the people that I try to bring forward, who I think are setting a good example and are of service in their respective communities. And so, to get this podcast started, as I always do, I'm going to play you a little introduction from my father, charlie Pickard.
Speaker 3:From the moment we're born and lock eyes with our parents. We are inspiring others by showing up as a vessel of service. We not only help others, we help ourselves. Welcome to SOS. Stories of Service hosted by Teresa Carpenter. Hear from ordinary people from all walks of life who have transformed their communities by performing extraordinary work.
Speaker 1:And Dr Mike Hackney is an Army veteran, business leader, coach and author, and today we're going to talk about the dynamic intersections of military service, organizational leadership and personal reinvention. He shares his journey tonight, commanding infantry units in Germany, serving during the Gulf War era, to leading corporate turnarounds at Fortune 500 companies like Pepsi-Cola, Sara Lee and ConAgra. With a doctorate in organizational psychology from the University of Southern California, he brings a unique perspective on what it takes to sustain and main change in both business and military environments. Now the founder of Shade Tree Enterprises in Nashville, mike coaches executives and advises organizations on cultivating motivated, high-performing cultures. And tonight we're going to talk candidly about his role as a veteran advocate, also a pilot and writer, showing how a life of service can evolve in powerful and unexpected ways. Welcome again, mike.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Very glad to be here again, Mike.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, Very glad to be here.
Speaker 2:So first off, as I always ask all my guests where were you born and raised and what inspired you initially to join the Army? I was born in Huntington, west Virginia. My aunt, my mother's sister sister, lived across the river in a small town in ohio and, uh, just so happened that's where the uh, the hospital was. My dad at the time was in the air force. He was assigned in california. Uh, I was the first child he was deployed. My mom just came and stayed with her sister, had me and then we went back to California. So essentially raised in California, a little bit of time in Washington State. Along the way, my dad decided to do a career change and become a federal agent and so, after he finished the course at Quantico, we were assigned to Birmingham, alabama. I was 10 years old when that happened and we moved there. So when people ask me where are you from as a kid, I say Birmingham, post-military. I moved to Chicago and was there for 30 years. So now when people ask me where are you from? Well, I'm from Chicago, but now I live in Nashville. So a little bit all over the place. Why did I decide to join the military? Little bit all over the place.
Speaker 2:Why did I decide to join the military? Patriotism, reading a lot of books about the army when I was a kid. I grew up with the movie by John Wayne called the Green Berets, so I always wanted to be a paratrooper. Didn't know much about any of it beyond that, but I soon learned. So I did my undergrad at the University of Alabama where I was an ROTC cadet and eventually a scholarship recipient. I received my undergraduate degree there and was commissioned in the regular army as a second lieutenant of infantry. After my infantry schools the things that lieutenants go do I headed to Germany for three years and then came back to Fort Benning to go to the career course and then did another three years of active duty after that.
Speaker 1:What made you decide to go into infantry? I'm always interested in people that choose combat arms positions because what people I don't think understand especially people who don't serve in the military is that so few are in combat arms positions. So I always want to highlight that because by making that decision, regardless of if you saw combat or not the risk and the bravery that that takes to make that decision I don't overlook. So I'm curious what made you decide to do that?
Speaker 2:the professor of military science at the university of Alabama. Uh, during my years there was a fellow by the name of Colonel Paul Revere O'Mary. He was a Colonel of infantry, um, one of the most influential persons I've ever known, or influential in terms of me and things I ended up doing. Another person that was at the university, our unit sergeant major, was a fellow by the name of Curtis M Duco. A fellow by the name of Curtis M Duco. There's only roughly 100 infantry soldiers who have been awarded the combat infantryman badge three times. Sergeant Major Duco was one of those three.
Speaker 2:Tremendous reputation in the airborne community. The kind of person that when you're a cadet, you look at the officers that are the cadre and you're like, okay, I could be one of them. Then you look at men like Sergeant Major Duco or our drill instructor, sergeant First Class Fred Jones Jones. I am going to be leading people like them. I am going to be getting saluted by people like them. How in the world can I possibly live up to that? So, uh, when I did my, my cadet officer training, which you do between your junior and senior years, I was just really drawn to everything that the infantry did and, uh, I figured. Well, you know, if I'm going to do this, I want to be part of the main event. I don't want to be one of the sideshow people.
Speaker 1:I love it, absolutely love it, and I agree. I think that once I knew that storytelling was my passion, I always wanted to be where the operations were taking place, not so much where operational headquarters and you know where the PowerPoints were happening. I wanted to be where, on the ground, the pointy end of the ship was and how the operators who were driving the warships were making their plans and formulating their decisions. That was always what interested me and I tried my best to always be at those kind of commands for my entire career. So I didn't have a traditional uh career or path uh as a, as a, as a PAO or even as a, even in my earlier career as an aviation electrician's mate. So I totally understand how that was for you. And then tell me a little bit about some of your, your duty stations. You said you went over to Germany. Uh, how did you? How did you like that tour?
Speaker 2:You know if I can relate. Uh, a short anecdote. I got to Germany, um uh, was picked up by a representative from the battalion I was being assigned to. They sent a car to the airport. There was a little receiving station and I went to a concern in a town called Gelnhausen, which is only about 50 kilometers or so from Frankfurt, if I'm remembering the distances. But by the time I got there it was in the afternoon, it was on a Friday. The office that assigned people rooms in the BOQ was closed, so I ended up sleeping in the spare bedroom of the battalion adjutant Colonel Denny Shields, now, but retired, of the battalion adjutant Colonel Denny Shields, now but retired. But the next morning it was raining and Denny and his wife were doing whatever they were going to do, and I didn't want to be a third wheel. So I decided to just go walk around Gelnhausen.
Speaker 2:My background is German, on both sides of my parents, more so on my father's side. For whatever reason, on this cold October day and it was just your typical low, overcast, drizzly rain, a little chilly, I felt immediately at home. It's it's hard to describe. I was very comfortable with with Germany, and this was 1979. The Cold War was still very much a big thing. The Cold War was still very much a big thing, and the politics of the Cold War, the mission of US Army forces in Europe, were truly focused on avoiding Germany and all of Europe being attacked and conquered in a conventional land war by the, by the, by the then Soviet union. It it's ancient history now, but at the time it was very, very real. All of our tanks were kept in the concern, with all of their tank shells in them, armed guards around the tank park, our fighting vehicles that we in the infantry used at the time. They were M113s. They were kept loaded with a number of things, but no live ammunition. But the live ammunition was immediately available if we needed to do something. So there was very much a. On one hand, germany was great, it was fun, the people were amazing and a lovely place to be, but there was always that underlying undercurrent threat and and what it could mean.
Speaker 2:So I was a rifle platoon leader. Um, not a particularly good one. Uh, in part because of my age. Uh, all of my peers were three or four years older than I was. I was 20 years old when I was commissioned and I had just turned 21 by about a month or two when I got to Germany, so, and I probably looked like I was 15 years old, quite frankly. But you learn. I mean, this is your rifle platoon, you're responsible for it, here's your platoon sergeant, here's the first sergeant, and they're going to help you get better. And they did and probably made most of the same mistakes that every junior officer makes in his first five or six months. But I managed to learn from them and subsequently I had the anti-tank platoon, which was a pretty big deal. And then I had about, oh, a little under a year left.
Speaker 2:Um, before I would rotate, uh, I was the, the, the, the platoon leader, the commanding officer, whatever you want to tag it for the tactical operations center, for the brigade, which is very much a three ring circus. And again, I had a couple of really good NCOs that had been doing it for a while. Um, I had a pretty good boss who explained to me what he expected and what he needed. And then they, you know, okay, I got other things to do. Lieutenant, it's yours, go make things happen. Wow, well, when you're 22, 23 years old and you're being given that kind of responsibility, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's very cool.
Speaker 1:I mean that's so empowering, that's so wonderful. I mean I can tell so alive and so motivated, unserviced and wanting to serve, and I think that it was probably quite pivotal and very instructive for you to have those kinds of experiences so early on in your career and it probably shaped you throughout your Army career into the kind of leader you wanted to be.
Speaker 2:It absolutely did. When I came back to Fort Benning for the career course, I made the mistake of doing very well on the first couple of tests and was told that if I let my academic performance decline I would not get a particularly good academic efficiency report. And at that time to go to the Command and General Staff College, it was highly competitive. Only about 50% of eligible majors went to CNGSC in residence at Fort Leavenworth or as an allied student at one of the other schools. So I understood that that report card needed to be okay. Of course I'd have to do decent things as a captain afterwards, but I ended up doing.
Speaker 2:I was one of the honor graduates of my advanced course class and reported to Fort Stewart, 24th Division at the time and interviewed with the brigade commander and the battalion commander and they said okay, well, you're going to. As soon as you get here you're going to be taking over a company command. I was very surprised at that. The normal path is you go be a staff officer somewhere or an assistant staff officer somewhere else and then, as company command opportunities come open. If they think that you should interview for it, then you're given the chance to do it. At the time, maybe 70, 75% of infantry officers, infantry captains, actually got the opportunity to command and if you didn't have at least one good command report card, you weren't going to be competitive for major or anything else. I did okay with the first one. We transitioned into a different T-O-N-E, I was given a second company and then with that T-O-N-E change, the Army pulled all of the support elements away from the line companies and they consolidated them in the HHC and now this became a monstrosity of over 320 people.
Speaker 2:A company of 320 plus people. Wow, a company of 320 plus people. Battalion headquarters, a giant maintenance section, all of the mess folks, all the medical assets, the actual battalion headquarters. And then there was the scout platoon and the heavy mortar platoon and a couple of other support combat things that were now part of that company, and they lumped it all up into this one big old thing. That so that the line companies would just be focused on their three platoons of fighters, without all of the administrative stuff that goes along with having to take care of mechanics and cooks and medics and all of those folks.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And um, so I was uh, uh, tasked to command that company, uh, which, more than I could ever appreciate at the time, truly prepared me for what I would do later on as a civilian um, running, uh, running plants, running multi-plant divisions, things like that. So kind of a roundabout way to say the things I was successful to do I was able to do successfully in my civilian career as a manager and later on as an executive. I would never have had any capability whatsoever to have walked into those roles had it not been for the eight years that I did on active duty.
Speaker 1:It's very, very understated that the opportunity to command which we don't get in the public affairs community and even when I was a maintainer, I mean the most you would get in your case a company commanding officer with a company that was obviously much larger and much more encompassing than a typical army company, and I would say that there really isn't anything that can quite prepare you for that in the ways that the military can, because I think that you just probably had to deal with so much unexpected things that you were never prepared for, but then in the moment you just had to make it work.
Speaker 1:I mean the things that I used to see my, my COs do, and I got to see it very intimately as a carrier public affairs officer when I was in a squadron. It was all you know, I was an E5. I was very, I was much more low ranking and I didn't understand all the things that were that were happening. But then when I became a um, a department head, that was when it really sunk in what level of responsibility and authority and and and just absolute, just the way that they're able to multitask and be focused and be present for so many things all at the same time. So I'm sure it was very stressful, but it was also probably very rewarding at the same time very rewarding at the same time.
Speaker 2:I don't think I ate a lot my first six months and I'll circle back to to to Colonel O'Mary. He would do these O'Mary talks. He would just gather a bunch of cadets around and he would. They were always with a purpose. He would, he would tell one of his anecdotes and then he would relate it to the responsibilities that we did not understand but we would be encountering once we got our commission and headed off to the fleet, headed off to a unit.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that he emphasized on a couple of occasions is that there is no greater responsibility that an American can have than to lead other soldiers, other military members, against an adversary, um, against an adversary, uh, your job is to make sure that they can do what they have to do to win those conflicts and survive. That is your only job. That is. This isn't about you, this is about them and it's your job to make sure that they can them. And it's your job to make sure that they can, that they know what they're doing and they can do it well.
Speaker 2:And that imprinted on me and I, I think for the uh, for the time that I was in the military and then, as I left the military and began doing other things, um in and what I ended up going into, um, not the same requirement, same circumstances. We're just trying to make money, we're just trying to eliminate waste, but still, how do we empower those who we are, who are going to go do the dirty stuff, to be able to do it well, and how are we going to make sure that they know that they're valued? So just so many lessons. I can go back to the one and only Colonel Paul Revere O'Meary. He was quite a guy.
Speaker 1:I love it, and I think that's what's so wonderful about serving in the military is that you get to encounter people that are just so transformative. I often talk about Admiral Brad Cooper, who just got selected to be the incoming CENTCOM commander.
Speaker 1:I saw that he was the first US Navy commander, I think of CENTCOM in decades, I believe, and he was my commanding officer on USS Russell when I was a ensign and I went surface warfare officer. But he knew that I wanted to be a PAO and it was such a beautiful relationship because he positioned me so well and it was a win-win. He wanted Russell sailors to feel proud of their work and to be recognized and to have their story told, and I wanted to learn how to be a storyteller, be a storyteller, and so it was such a neat synergy of the two years that I got to work under him and see what visionary and transformational leadership looks like, and to this day he's still that person and he's still serving.
Speaker 2:Did he mentor you?
Speaker 1:Oh, totally. I mean, he's the reason I'm a PAO. He had been a detailer before and so he knew exactly when we would put the package in and when I would not get selected but it would show interest and then to do it again. He knew to send me to Chinfo, chief of information, as a intern and have me go what we call no cost TAD for two weeks, three weeks, and I just immersed myself in what that chinfo duty would be like and it convinced me that that wasn't where I wanted to be. And if I hadn't had that experience I wouldn't have understood that.
Speaker 1:Nothing wrong with working at the Pentagon, I just knew for me I loved being on a ship, I loved the war fighting aspect of it, I loved being where at the tactical level, and I've always loved that.
Speaker 1:And so, uh, it really helped me understand where my place was as a, as a, as a professional communicator, and I was able to do all the things that now we see the mass communication specialists do. Because I didn't have an MC. I was able to do all the things that now we see the mass communication specialists do because I didn't have an MC, an enlisted communicator, so I got to learn how to take the images. I got to do a little bit of graphic design. I got to do a ton of stories. I mean that was the biggest thing I did was press releases and it to this day is biggest example like that I go back to about my love for service and my love for serving. I know people see I criticize a lot and I call out a lot, but it's always rooted in this deep love and pride in the opportunities that I've been given and the gratitude that I have for service.
Speaker 2:I'm going to circle over to CENTCOM for a moment. When I got to Fort Stewart I got to participate on the periphery with the change of command of our incoming division commander. A lot of people never heard of him after he left Fort Stewart. His name was Norman Schwarzkopf and I was the most junior company commander when he assumed command. I was probably the most senior company commander when he left command, but his wife was much younger than he was and, for whatever reason, my wife at the time and Brenda became pretty good friends.
Speaker 2:Of course, when you're living over in the little circle where the generals and the colonels live, captain's wives don't go over there and socialize. So Brenda would come over to our house and I'd come home sometimes and I'd walk in and I'm uh, you know, uh, uh, hey, mike, hi, brenda, you know, and I'd grab a sandwich or something and head back to work. But she, she was a, a, a, a, very, very lovely woman and very nice to my wife, lovely woman and very nice to my wife. But I had a lot of interaction with General Schwarzkopf and the last thing that, general Schwarzkopf, can you please leave the unit patch on your shoulder. Would you please go to the event at Arlington and there will be representatives from the 34th Regiment, which was the unit I was in, and at that point I was the HHC company commander and I got tabbed to go up and represent the regiment along with another fellow who was our NCO of the year for the division but who also was in my company.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm at the Fort Myers BOQ and it's Sunday. The event's going to be on Monday. They flew us up in the general's plane and brought us back in it later. It was really cool. But I go over to just get a few laps in at the pool. I'm sitting on the deck of the pool and I see this shadow approaching me. I didn't pay any attention to it until the shadow sat down and it was General Schwarzkopf and he spent the next.
Speaker 2:Brenda was there with their two kids. They were off playing. I had seen her. To my knowledge she had not seen me. Schwarzkopf spent the next hour just being a guy. Love it.
Speaker 2:More than that, he was being Colonel O'Meary. What do you think about this? How would you do that? Why do you think this is important? I subsequently never had another interaction with him because I left active duty a year or so later. But that he would take the time to do that and it wasn't because it was I mean, if it had been any of his other officers from the 24th division that he just happened to you know. Oh yeah, mike, you're going to be here for the ceremony. We're doing that together, blah, blah, blah. He would have done the same thing, I'm sure, but it wasn't for somebody else, it was with me and it was just quite the learning.
Speaker 1:That's so special. It's so special when people do that and it's such a blessing I mean, that's the only way I can say it is that it's wonderful when people really take the time to get to know you on a personal and a deeper level, and it's not about the rank. It's not about who's around and seeing you interact. It's just about getting to know people and doing what we're doing right now, even if it's remotely. It's just something that's so special.
Speaker 2:Well, for me, the takeaway was I didn't do those kinds of things very often or very well, but it certainly provided a template, if you will, that subsequently, particularly when I got into the civilian world, I um, I attempted to use, uh, whenever I could to help coach individuals that I could. To help coach individuals that had nothing to do with me necessarily, or, I'm sorry, to mentor people like that, or to coach the ones that I was absolutely responsible for.
Speaker 1:So you get out of the Army and what was the next step? How were you able to take what you had learned in the infantry commanding leadership? What was your next move?
Speaker 2:So when you decide at least for me at the time, I had eight years of active duty and I was 28, 29 years old at that point, and I took a commission in the reserve. But it was just time for me to go do something else, and I just stumbled into what I ended up doing, because they're the people that offered me a job. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:You get, you get, you know, you, you, you, you contact a couple of the, the uh, in the back of the army times. Um, there were these ads. If you're a JMO and you're thinking about leaving, call us, we can help hook you up with someone, right?
Speaker 1:So I did. That's great.
Speaker 2:And I went to a couple of three corporate job fairs for a couple of three different companies, and the one that came through and offered me what sounded at the time like a really interesting job turned out to be the best job I ever had because it completely humbled me. I'll come back to that in a moment. And this is something I think. With a lot of officers who are transitioning out senior NCOs transitioning out was certainly true for me. What do you mean? You need me to come over here and learn how to sweep the floor, don't you know the things that I did in the army and the reality of it is?
Speaker 2:That may be why you're here, but when it comes to their environment, you know less than you did on day one when you were a cadet, because at least as a cadet you'd figured out how to put the uniform on. But I was hired by PepsiCo. They had a program for junior military officers for an accelerated management training thing, and you either went to the beverage side of the house or you went to the snack food side of the house. I ended up on the snack food side of the house, outside of Chicago, at a Frito-Lay factory where my first job was on second shift making potato chips, with a staff of about 18, 20 hourly employees, and I was their supervisor.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's quite. The transition was and that's what you mean by it humbled you. You probably learned a lot about hard work and and just getting it right, and because those kinds of places I mean they it has to be done properly, I mean my, my last year at fort stewart.
Speaker 2:Um, I was uh, uh told that, um, because we had a vacancy in the S3 shop at Brigade, I was going to have to give up command to become the interim S3. And it was, candidly, the fellow who was our brigade commander was a very different sort of individual and I'd worked for some great bosses. Uh, he in his own way was an okay guy, but uh, uh, he wasn't like the bosses I had preferred. So here I am now I'm, I'm, um, it's 10 o'clock at night. I'm covered in grease. Because when you walked into the to the production floor, you know you make potato chips, you make Fritos, you make Doritos, all of those are, are, are immersed in these giant grease pits and pulled through and, and and. That's how they, uh, they, they are cooked, that's how they're made. But the grease is boiling. It's boiling oil is what it is. But the oil boils, it gets in the air, it gets in everything. It's in your eyes, your ears, and I'm just asking myself. I was writing speeches for general officers. Right.
Speaker 2:I was doing projects for the division commander. You know that had been delegated to 1st Brigade where I was at. I was important.
Speaker 1:Now I'm not.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that's a wonderful leadership lesson in and of itself, oh yeah, oh, incredibly, conversation about hubris and ego because we both sort of watch these really amazing people that we both respect um, and sometimes we talk about like how did it go wrong? This person was so prominent, they were just doing so much good in the world, they were so well respectedrespected, well-liked, and then they started to believe their own bullshit, you know, and I think that, like, you've got to have like those jobs, mike, where you're humbled and you just have to get dirty and do things that you don't want to do.
Speaker 1:So you remember who you are.
Speaker 2:Totally and um and in all fairness, uh, everyone who was getting I mean, I was getting paid more than the other people that were doing what I did. Um, I was getting paid significantly more than what I was being paid as a captain in the army, but the significance of what I was doing cutting potatoes to become chips to go into a bag.
Speaker 1:Oh, but it was a corporate job and it was with a very well respectedrespected and well-known organization. So how many years did you stay at PepsiCo?
Speaker 2:A little under three, a boss of mine that I had, who was an air defense artillery officer, west Point graduate. He got the opportunity to go to a privately owned company in Chicago and, after he'd been there a little bit, asked me to join him. And when I say Chicago I mean like downtown Chicago. So I subsequently, from from Frito, went to to that company, became the plant manager and then became the general manager and at this point, because it was a kind of a small company, now I'm getting exposed to product development, quality control, all the logistics, all the financial aspects of it, all the things that were like commanding an HHC of um in an infantry battalion. Um and uh. After the owner realized, you know, that he could trust me and that I had some skills, um, he's like. You know, I'm going to go play golf and uh, occasionally I'll let you go with me run the company run the company, make me money, learn sales, learn marketing.
Speaker 2:Yep. And from there my food career. You know a couple of lateral moves, but really leapfrogged from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think I read in your bio you went to ConAgra, which I think is a huge food company.
Speaker 2:I got to run the Hebrew. You went to ConAgra, which I think is a that's a huge food company. I got to run the Hebrew national brand at ConAgra.
Speaker 1:Okay, which are you? Do you know Hebrew national hot dogs? I don't, I don't. I don't know Hebrew national hot dogs, no.
Speaker 2:Best hot dog in the world.
Speaker 1:Well, now I will have to go to go try one no-transcript, oh five, uh. I get to go work with a uh, a business owner, a nonprofit lead, and I found a local business owner, a dog trainer, who used to be in the Air Force as a military working dog trainer, and I go and I shoot content for him.
Speaker 1:So I go and I make reels, I do interviews, I've done client testimonials, we make graphics and I just love it. It is amazing, and one of the reasons he took this on is because he wanted to help transitioning veterans, so it's such a neat story. And so there's another intern who's with me. Her name is Elizabeth and she's learning how to become a dog trainer and he's teaching her all and I've been taking like even the clips that Chris made, that we film and like using them on my own dog because he's just so good at what he does. I mean, he was handling a working dog who had severe PTSD, who eventually retired and then lived out her life with him, and I'm learning so much about that as well.
Speaker 1:And that's what I mean Like. This is an amazing opportunity that you were given to go to PepsiCo from the army and and be in this special program for junior military officers, and then that springboarded your career. But what I don't want to do before our time is up is is miss out on the opportunity to talk about some of the other things that you've done not just this wonderful corporate career.
Speaker 1:but you've man, you're a book author, you're a pilot, so you're a leadership coach. So let's talk a little bit about how you started transitioning into all these other activities.
Speaker 2:Let me throw. Let me just go back one point, though, because I missed out. All right, I did go into the reserve when I left active duty out. All right, uh, I did go into the reserve when I left active duty and I had a an individual mobilization augmentee job as a reservist.
Speaker 2:And, uh, a couple years after I left active duty, um, the first gulf war started and I was called back to active duty for for for a bit, um, where I was, uh, an operations officer, um, during the Gulf war, and literally had my stuff packed on the tarmac ready to. So, my, my job was two parts, do the stuff that I was doing as an IMA. But then, because, since I was still, you know, recent and current and all that, and had all the right security clearances and blah, blah, blah, they needed majors to be able to come into theater anticipating casualties, to be able to come in as as individual replacements, uh, to be battalion S3s, battalion XOs, brigade S3s, what have you, or you know, whatever else they would have had you do, and um, so it was to do what I was doing until day five of the ground war. Then go get on a plane and Saddam surrendered.
Speaker 2:Wow so um, teed up ready to go and uh, but it, it, I. I bring it up because it's important for those that do go into the reserves um to understand they're still doing what they're asked to do, even if they're no longer part of the active force as their full-time job, and that was a very important thing for me. So I cannot hear you, teresa. You've muted yourself. Still can't hear you.
Speaker 1:Oh, there we go there, you are.
Speaker 1:So I also want to emphasize that one of the reasons I love doing this show so much is that everybody's service is worth telling stories of. Not everybody is going to serve in the firefight, serve in the firefight and we unfortunately, I think sometimes we fail to see the forest through the trees. We tend to fixate on just those stories of the valor of those ground fights, and those stories are absolutely what we should be telling and these are things that we should remember. But we never want to forget the contributions of the reserves and how they stood by and they were ready if called upon and they were prepared to do whatever it was. Or even all the sailors who knew they could be at any time involved in a ship collision, they could be part of a, they could be attacked, as as we saw with some of the red incidences that have taken place in the Red Sea. I mean, all of us raise our right hand to serve and we don't know what is going to happen.
Speaker 1:Some of us see combat actions and operations and some of us don't. But for the ones that don't, I'd never want them to diminish their contribution and their service and their story, because they still have a story of service. They still have a story of leadership. They still have a story of adversity, a story of triumph. They have those stories and there are people, many people book coaches and other people like yourself who've written books, and those are stories that are worth sharing as well. So I just I wanted to touch upon that just very quickly, because I think sometimes people tend to minimize their contributions if they don't see it as being combat operations, and I think that every story is important. No matter what you did, you still served.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, I agree with you, and I would just add to that the seven B-2s from a couple of weeks ago had another 125 aircraft with them and thousands of airmen who made sure those aircraft and those crews could do their mission. Absolutely. And every one of them was just as essential. And the air crews, even on the B-2s, had National Guard pilots, which is just kind of cool.
Speaker 1:It is, it is, it's an amazing operation. I mean just all the memories that I've had and I'm very lucky that as a sailor I got to serve on a small boy with, you know, 320 sailors. Then I served on an amphib with, I think, 3,500 or something, marines and Navy, marines and Navy. And then I served on an aircraft carrier with 5,000, uh, with the air wing and then the ground, the uh ships, ships company. So it's been amazing opportunity to see different levels of the military uh, and different sizes and and things like that. So, but before, like I say, we do not want to miss the opportunity to talk a little bit about your consulting, the fact that you become an author, those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:How did all that stuff get started?
Speaker 2:I've always been a writer. I wrote, uh, elementary school newspaper, high school newspaper, um college newspaper, um stories, magazine articles, wrote several things when I was on active duty that got published in military publications, so writing has always been something that I've enjoyed doing and just found it kind of interesting. Yeah, I got into fiction writing, which which I I published first with a couple of ideas that I had for a story, and that led to a book called the Omega event, which was originally published in 2014, and didn't really think about doing a sequel for it. However, oh yeah, the Omega event, um, but I I got a lot of good response for the book and um, uh, so I started thinking about a sequel.
Speaker 2:But along the way, I also decided to go back to school and, uh, pick up a doctorate in organizational psychology, specifically in organizational change and leadership activities, to sustain that change. So I went to the University of Southern California and did that kind of put writing the second book on hold. But one of my professors at USC contacted me about being part of an anthology and so I wrote, contributed to a book called Life-Changing Leadership, and our foreword was by Lieutenant General retired Gwendolyn Bingham, who is an amazing general officer on the logistics side of the house and all the other authors were from the Marines, the Air Force, the Navy. One of your guests former guest was an author, andrea Howard. Yes, she and I were chatting about that today.
Speaker 2:Actually, I said I'm going to be on this podcast and she, she and I were chatting about that today. Actually, I said I'm going to be on this podcast and she said I've been on that podcast, she's like.
Speaker 1:I know Teresa. Yes, she did.
Speaker 2:She's amazing oh man, yeah, quite, I think the world of her such a positive powerhouse.
Speaker 1:Yes, and yeah, like, there are people in the military that I follow and she's one of them who I just love just watching their careers blossom because they just every step of their career they're just finding new things to get motivated about and inspired by and it's just, they're just a joy to watch and she's one of them.
Speaker 2:My only problem with Andrea is that being around her makes me realize how dumb I really am.
Speaker 1:Well, she's also very quirky. I think that's also why I like her. Like when I had my interview with her, that's the one thing that I liked about her is that she's really like her own person and she's never like. I love those people who have never changed their personalities and changed how they lead or who they are to fit some kind of a preconceived mold, and she's definitely one of those people and I really admire that in a person because it kind of shows that they're willing to take a stand and they're willing to make decisions sometimes that are hard, because they've already sort of cemented who they are and they know the kind of ways that they want to lead.
Speaker 1:And she, she really struck me as that kind of person. So I really enjoyed speaking with her. So when I saw her name on this book, I was like, oh man, I was like that's so cool, like there's and your story in here was especially poignant, so I won't ruin it for the audience because I want you guys to get the book was especially poignant, so I won't ruin it for the audience because I want you guys to get the book, but it's just inspirational story that really highlights thinking outside the box and just doing something that was not expected, but that really worked out.
Speaker 2:It did, it did. Having been a part of that book, Dr Alexandra McDermott and I are uh partnering uh right now to put together another book, and this one is called shift, and it's about organizational mind shift, uh mindset in the, in the, in the business community. So, while the first one, focused on military, shift, is going to be an opportunity for individuals who can be in the military. We have a general officer who's also right now indicated he's going to participate. Until he confirms for sure, I'm not going to mention his name but, other other business executives and they.
Speaker 2:If individuals would like to be part of an anthology where the money raised by the book goes to help a worthy charity, I would invite them to reach out to me. I would love to show them how they can be a part of that book. But on the fiction side, my pen name is Shade Michaels. Shade's my middle name, Michael is my first name. I was told way back when that when your last name is Hackney, don't use that if you're writing fiction. It just tees it up for the critics.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I wondered why you had a pen name. Okay.
Speaker 2:So I've answered the Omega event with two more follow-ons. One is called the Omega denial, which I um was kind of a reward to myself when I finished my dissertation. I'm like, okay, I can go write the Omega denial. So I did, which was great, really good story and, um, the cast of characters from the first book conveyed to the second book. And then I have a third book which is available at my publisher's bookstore but it's not yet in general release, and it's called the Omega Reprisal. Okay, in general release and it's called the omega reprisal. And, uh, uh, again, I won't give away the storyline of the books, but political action, thriller, the kind of thing that you know. I traveled a lot for work and I always just wanted to read a book that kept me interested when I was on an airplane yeah okay, well, I'll try to write books like that.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it and I told you before I got so just just overwhelmed with my transition and other things that I haven't had a chance to sit down and really dig deep into them. But I did take a look at your story and life changing leadership and that was very inspirational and I really, I'm really honored that you took the time to come on this podcast and really talk to me and I mean I'm almost like gosh, what did he see in me? I mean you're so accomplished and you've had so many, so many successes in your life and you're also that's is that a hobby of yours that you do.
Speaker 2:It's a hobby, a very expensive hobby. Um, I always wanted to get a pilot's license. Um and I and for the I'll, I'll, I'll uh, not worry about the whole backstory, but when I was running Hebrew national, uh for ConAgraAgra, I had some executives coming in. I had to run out to the airport to see where I was going to pick them up at. They have a little restaurant I ate lunch. These old guys are in there when they're and it's like they were a motorcycle club, only they flew airplanes. And one of them was like do you fly? No, why not? Well, just never got around to it. Why not? And I, you know that's a really good question, why not? I love it.
Speaker 2:So six months later I was in Florida for two weeks going to a flight school learning the very, very basics. Nine months later I had a license. Two months after that I bought my airplane. My wife also went through flight training when I did so. She's like the world's best co-pilot and we just kind of bebop all around.
Speaker 2:I love it when the weather's good and we just have a great time flying. And uh, I'm, I'm up, uh haven't flown as much as I would like, uh, I'm, uh getting close to to being at a thousand hours and uh, want to hit that, that, that milestone here, uh, within the next year or two, and um, but we just uh it's. It's like having a convertible and putting the the top down or getting on a motorcycle. You're just up there looking around, just taking it all in and appreciating the beauty around you, and it also, uh, is a heck of a way to get from point A to point B when you don't want to deal with traffic.
Speaker 1:My husband took flight lessons before he in his late teens actually when he was in high school, his senior year in high school so he's already got some hours towards his private license and we talk a lot about him going back to school and going through the process and that's so inspirational that you decided to take this on.
Speaker 2:What about you?
Speaker 1:No, I can barely drive. Mike, you don't want to see me fly a plane? I don't have the attention span or the focus, unfortunately, to take on something like that, but you trust me, you will have the attention span.
Speaker 2:The alternative is doing something stupid and time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's absolutely correct. I think the way I really want to close out this call and ask you is is how do you, once you retire from these companies and you do the writing now and the consulting, and what is it that like inspires you to like get up each day now, like cause you're not going into that big work thing every day? So I mean, it sounds like you just you're constantly kind of reinventing or you're looking into something else, and how do you, how do you keep going?
Speaker 2:I think a part of it is is is mindset? Um, I've never been comfortable sitting. Still, I've never been someone who, uh, uh, I mean, don't get me wrong I can go hang out for a few hours and just watch mindless movies or watch music videos or play my guitars or whatever, but there's just so much to do with our lives. We've only got one, we only have so much time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I enjoy doing the things that I do. So I'd say there's three things that motivate me. One, my wife is a much younger woman. She's a long way before she'll be slowing down. She's a medical doctor and I admire her energy and I want to keep up with her and I don't see any reason for me to slow down until she decides to. Secondly, like I said, it's mindset. It just isn't me. And third, there's just still all these things I want to do that I haven't done yet and I'm going to keep pushing until I get them done.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's kind of how I feel now that I'm, um, you know, on the transition path out out the military, um, and I'm not looking to go back into a company or a nine to five, and it's like, oh, what do I do? Well, I've got my graduate degrees coming up. I've gotten accepted in the University of San Francisco for a degree in a master's in public leadership, with a focus on advocacy and political campaigns. And then I've got a, you know, I'm working on a thought for a book and I've started even like a scene writing class. That just started up most recently. And, of course, I've got the internship and, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's. It hasn't slowed down at all for me. And now my husband and I, we were very dedicated to working out. So each day we go to the gym for an hour and a half around the same time every day, and and we're learning about really like how to lift weights the proper way, and it's a whole lot different than just going to the gym and doing it.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:Um, really understanding, um, having a push day, having a pull day, how to do a proper squat, how to actually go all the way down and use less weight, how to do reps very slowly, how to do maybe, more reps or go to failure. I mean, there's so much to this and there's just a plethora of free information online. Yes. People doing demonstrations and everything. So I agree with you, mike you only have one life and there's so much to learn and there's so much to discover, so make the most of it.
Speaker 2:Agree completely.
Speaker 1:All right, well, thank you so much. I know we went a little over the hour, so I want to thank you so much for your time. Um, is there anything that you want to add, or is there anything I didn't touch upon before? I, uh, go full screen and say goodbye to the audience.
Speaker 2:Uh, I would simply uh, just throw out that at some point if we would like to have a conversation about. Leadership takes many nuances and facilitative leadership who is making sure that their folks are ready and have the things that they need and then coaching them through. It is so different from the traditional I'm the boss, I'll tell you what to do, you go, do it and then if you did it wrong, it's your fault. I would love to have a much more in-depth conversation on that topic at some point down the road, If you think that that would be something your audience would like to get into, and the parallels from the military and the levels of responsibility that we give our young men and women at such a young age. You work for a company 20 or 30 years before you get anywhere close to that level of actual responsibility In most cases not all, but in most cases so we'd love to spend more time talking about that. I would love to have you back on.
Speaker 1:I have returning guests all the time and yeah, I think once at some point, like I keep my tuesdays open for returning guests, so and I try to just put them in as I can when I can. Uh, not always. It's been nice this past week only having one guest, but sometimes I love the two guests as well. But that's, you know, double the pre-production, double the post-production and all those things, but it's, it's amazing and it's a privilege to do this. So thank, you.
Speaker 2:I do have one request anyone that came into the show late missed your intro I know, so do I need to put the glasses in, absolutely oh no, okay, I will.
Speaker 1:It's, it's very bad. And then we did have a couple people that even came in and say hello, so I'm sorry I missed you. Someone actually came in from Holland, the very Mr Sharad Dat TM, ryan Patrick Hunt, who is a fellow veteran and has an amazing veteran resource Veteran Lifestyle Magazine, I believe. If I messed that up, I'm sorry. He says you rock. I think he was talking about you, not me. And then Jessica Rittenberger she is amazing women's advocate for aviation. I just love following her content. She says hi.
Speaker 1:So here we go, I will put it back on, and the headband is not really as bad as the glasses. The glasses were just so atrocious that I just knew I had to put them on and wear them and then at the same time, deliver a very serious message of patriotism. So I will do that on full screen so that the audience has the privilege of seeing how ridiculous I look and even the backdrop that I now finally have. I didn't have a backdrop. I kept saying, you know, I was letting perfect be the enemy of good enough, and now I have a backdrop, thanks to the Dollar Tree. So thank you, mike. I will meet you backstage as I go full screen.
Speaker 1:I very appreciate you coming on the show, all right guys. So for our listening audience, you're missing it. You can go on YouTube and you can check out the amazing costume and the amazing new backdrop. But thank you so much for joining us tonight. I hope you have an amazing Fourth of July. You take some time to be thankful for all that we get to enjoy as Americans and get to celebrate. Team USA, team USA. I love it. All right guys, take care of yourselves, take care of each other and enjoy the rest of your evening. Bye-bye now.